They were White and They were Slaves

reply to post by thedeadtruth



I have no Idea, unfortunately, my family history is pretty hard to trace back. We've found that we came from Ireland in the 1800's, but we've had no luck finding what circumstances they came from. I envy people who can go back several hundred years with their history.

Although I think this is less applicable than more recent things like the KKK, white supremacy in general that occur in the United States, it's definitely an eye opener. I've never heard of this before, and it's a good piece of information to know. Not to fuel debates, not to point at others, playing the blame game, but to realize this world is a bad place, and the elite will always, and have always been terrible people. The elite do not care about ethnicity, and this post just sheds light on the fact that every good person should put aside the past, and come together so that the elite cannot once again take over us, as they always have in the past.

As a side note, I recognize the most recent forms of oppression, I recognize how terrible a past the United States, and other countries have. I do not aim to throw any issues aside, but rather desire to come to a better understanding, along with people of all religions, and ethnicity so that we may find common ground, and fight against the terrible things happening today.

As stated many times before, slavery was around long before the predominantly West African slave trade and is still around since the abolishment of slavery in the West. Every race and arguably every country has been involved in slavery, enslaving and the slave trade, many still are. When black people simply point out the slave trade as it relates to Europeans and Americans, its a very small part and actually a very small era relatively speaking to the history of man which has involved slavery for many thousands of years and as I said, still exists today. That never gets mentioned though, because that does not serve the agenda of those who mention it.

You seem to suffering from a lot of hate.

reply to post by deadlyhope


I am not sure that I understood your post entirely but at least you have some kind of take on white supremacy. I gave you a star.

The following steps are my suggestion for reducing racism.

1) Everyone should try to learn the other point of view/feeling.

2) White people give up your notions of white supremacy (they are largely baseless). Individuals did things not ethnicities.

3) Everyone learn to love history.

4) Black people quit seeing yourselves as victims and get on with it.

5) White people you should realise than many of you hold black genes.

6) Black people throw out Sharpton, Jackson and the New Black Panthers.

7) everyone should realise whilst we fight over BS the rules of the world hold all races in equal contempt.

Finally vote for me for president! !!

reply to post by Tiger5


I apologize if my post was confusing at all, it is quite late here and I refuse to stop reading threads, heh.

In short,

White Supremacy is much more recent thus more applicable to modern times, but I did not know whites have been slaves in the past.

It's very interesting to learn about slavery not mentioned in most history lessons.

Overall, it's not just racism that needs to be addressed, more the people that want power. People with power do not care if the people they reign over are white or black.

Originally posted by deadlyhope
reply to post by Tiger5

 

White Supremacy is much more recent thus more applicable to modern times, but I did not know whites have been slaves in the past.

You can thank Hitler for that.

Racism has its historical roots in the development of capitalism.

The new capitalist class in medieval Europe had to accumulate the necessary money capital to take over the means of production. Columbus' 1492 invasion of the Americas was decisive in this process. The Spanish and Portuguese aristocracies plundered the gold and silver of the native Americans and used this wealth to buy luxuries manufactured by the emerging bourgeoisies of England, France, Holland and Germany.

In order to plunder the gold and silver of the native Americans, and later to expropriate their tribal lands for plantations, the European colonists exterminated enormous numbers of native Americans.

In a period of 50 years from their arrival, the Spanish conquistadors exterminated 15 million people with the aid of introduced diseases like smallpox. Densely populated areas like Haiti, Cuba, Nicaragua and the coast of Venezuela were completely depopulated. As a result, the European plantation owners faced an acute shortage of labour.

Some system was necessary to bring workers to the new lands and to force them to work for their masters. At first the landed proprietors relied upon indentured servants or serfs from the mother countries "white people." However, indentured servants proved inadequate: if they ran away, they could not readily be distinguished from free colonists or their masters.

As production on the colonial plantations expanded to meet the needs of growing capitalist industries in Europe, it became increasingly urgent to find new, more abundant and more easily identifiable sources of forced labour.

The African slave trade came to the planters' rescue. Slaves could be purchased cheaply and brought in unlimited numbers from Africa.

Moreover, the colour of their skins made them easily identifiable, stopping them from escaping and merging with the rest of the colonial population. The colour of their skins became the sign of servitude. This was the origin of racism.

The view that those with non-white skins were inferior to those with white skins was gradually elaborated to justify the particular form of slave labour that was introduced in the Americas by a rising capitalism.

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by MrPlow

 

MrPlow you are in denial. Face it you are wrong on many accounts. One of your reasons for disliking white people is not justified. Now get over it.

I'M in denial? You're speaking to a white man who saw, first hand, what the system does to black people, specifically black males.

I'll say it again, this thread and the whole mindset behind it, has nothing to do with healing, but everything to do with deflection.

OP expects a fragmented "history" lesson on war criminal trade will suddenly reverse the very recent past (and in some cases ongoing) history of discrimination based SOLELY on the color of another person skin.

I can't speak for men of other countries, but I know here in America, racial discrimination is still very much alive and well and deeply rooted in our culture.

The only way healing can take place is if, on a large scale, we root racism out. Not through violence. Violence only begets violence. But rather through public scorn, ridicule, and humiliation. Bad enough that it hits the sickness in it's pockets. For example: Paula Deen.
Money seems to be the only thing people in this country understand, so maybe losing it and losing their dignity over their disgusting views will be the only thing that will put an end to this.

Lose your pride in the color of your skin. You didn't earn it. You did nothing to deserve it. You did nothing at all. It is only by chaotic chance that you ended up with it. So, to think yourself superior because of something you had nothing to do with? That is the cancer that is killing our country.

edit on 17-7-2013 by MrPlow because: (no reason given)

Your post is so demeaning to my people you arrogant #. Ireland was invaded by a nation that was the most powerful and technically advanced at that time for the sole reason of wiping out our religion, you classify my ancestors as war criminals because they had the cheek to stand up to the invading force. Putting the word history in quotation marks just shows ignorant you are to the suffering that this island had to endure. Men were shipped off to foreign lands never to be seen again, women and children sold as slaves to rich families and our native tongue all but wiped out. I have seen you blow absolute #e for pages now and can't take your "morals" anymore. The black slave population suffered, I am not contesting that but don't you dare belittle the suffering that my ancestors had to endure.

I think it is very important to realize that African American slaves were the only slaves who experienced chattel slavery and whites did not have it as bad whites could gain freedom and rights African American slaves couldn't African American slaves were not even shipped the same way as whites so to compare the two is ridiculous the most people are confused with who brought the first slaves to the Americas it was not white it was the Spanish the English eventually took over the slave trade but treated black much harsher then a white slave African Americans were not counted as human beings whites were when the emancipation proclamation was written it was for white men and white slaves not African Americans.

why is this in education it should be in propaganda

African slaves were not the only Chattel slaves,you cannot say one form of slavery is worse then another it's just ridiculous.That's like calling manslaughter not as bad as second degree murder,all the time the person is dead regardless of the persons mental state.

Romans Muslims Byzantine and many,many more had Chattel slaves consisting of a myriad of ethnicities.

reply to post by desertdawg1

You might like to read 'White Gold'.
It helps to understand that all slaves were treated with equal barbarity no matter the colour of their 'space suit'.

Of what religion were most of these slave traders and owners? I think I know but it is forbidden to say. Does anyone else know?

Originally posted by Todzer

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by MrPlow

 

MrPlow you are in denial. Face it you are wrong on many accounts. One of your reasons for disliking white people is not justified. Now get over it.

I'M in denial? You're speaking to a white man who saw, first hand, what the system does to black people, specifically black males.

I'll say it again, this thread and the whole mindset behind it, has nothing to do with healing, but everything to do with deflection.

OP expects a fragmented "history" lesson on war criminal trade will suddenly reverse the very recent past (and in some cases ongoing) history of discrimination based SOLELY on the color of another person skin.

I can't speak for men of other countries, but I know here in America, racial discrimination is still very much alive and well and deeply rooted in our culture.

The only way healing can take place is if, on a large scale, we root racism out. Not through violence. Violence only begets violence. But rather through public scorn, ridicule, and humiliation. Bad enough that it hits the sickness in it's pockets. For example: Paula Deen.
Money seems to be the only thing people in this country understand, so maybe losing it and losing their dignity over their disgusting views will be the only thing that will put an end to this.

Lose your pride in the color of your skin. You didn't earn it. You did nothing to deserve it. You did nothing at all. It is only by chaotic chance that you ended up with it. So, to think yourself superior because of something you had nothing to do with? That is the cancer that is killing our country.

edit on 17-7-2013 by MrPlow because: (no reason given)

Your post is so demeaning to my people you arrogant #. Ireland was invaded by a nation that was the most powerful and technically advanced at that time for the sole reason of wiping out our religion, you classify my ancestors as war criminals because they had the cheek to stand up to the invading force. Putting the word history in quotation marks just shows ignorant you are to the suffering that this island had to endure. Men were shipped off to foreign lands never to be seen again, women and children sold as slaves to rich families and our native tongue all but wiped out. I have seen you blow absolute #e for pages now and can't take your "morals" anymore. The black slave population suffered, I am not contesting that but don't you dare belittle the suffering that my ancestors had to endure.

edit on 18/7/13 by Todzer because: (no reason given)

And yet more deflection. First of all, the OP posted half truths, hence the quotes around history.
Second of all, the goal of the OP was to say two points in the worlds history are the same and that blacks should move on. (tl;dr)
Third, whether you like it or not- your ancestors were considered criminals at that time. They committed crimes and paid the penalty for it. I'm not saying it was right or wrong.
Blacks were enslaved, very #ing recently, ONLY because of the color of their skin.
Fourth, I rescind nothing I said above.
Fifth, if you actually have something constructive to offer to this discussion, I suggest you do it pretty #ing quickly.
Sixth- love the guy fawkes avatar. Nothing says revolution like a Disney story about a man who tried to tear one theocracy down in order to build another.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Hey thanks for the information. Some of the info is new to me but my question is if both whites and blacks were slaves at a point, why did you think blacks suffered more? A few decades ago blacks weren't allowed to own land or companies in the U.S. when other Jews and Irish just had trouble finding a job, why did it impact blacks harder? and Why is it that White slavery is really never talked about? i mean if it was just as bad or worse, would we be taught about it in school like black slavery?

reply to post by MrPlow
you obviously feel a sense of guilt for mankind's history of slavery. Don't. I repeat, DON'T. The way the game has been played is not your fault or mine.

We must move on past the game of pointing fingers and leave the past behind to move forward friend. After all, does it really matter who's right or wrong?

reply to post by MrPlow


First The OP highlighted the fact that slavery did indeed happen to white people, what half truths are you talking about? He was VERY accurate in the accounts of what happened
Second What happened in Ireland in those times was a very pivotal point in our history, we were invaded and told to hell or to connaught, a phrase that Oliver Cromwell told the irish people which is essentially go west were the English did not want the land or die, this was not a war but an invasion, if it is good enough for us to move on why shouldn't they?
Third we we labeled criminals by an outside force not by our own people, it is like me going to where you live taking over and then labeling you a criminal for fighting back, black people were first slaved by their OWN people and sold to Europeans, that is a guaranteed fact, the bull# that it was only for their skin colour doesn't fly but you keep singing that tune.
Fourth I never asked you to, just sick of reading your bs
Fifth If you have anything to say besides screaming "racism" get #ing on with it yourself
Sixth I will refer you to the first sentence of your last post

And more deflection

Nice of you to say that I am deflecting and then attack my avatar

Interestingly, in ancient times one form of punishment for crimes was to be stripped of citizenship and turned into a slave regardless of race or past social status. Some societies had no jails, and the sentences for crimes was either death or slavery. Of coarse you could be framed by your enemies and what recourse would you have ? There was no jury of your peers back then.

Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by MrPlow

 

First The OP highlighted the fact that slavery did indeed happen to white people, what half truths are you talking about? He was VERY accurate in the accounts of what happened
Second What happened in Ireland in those times was a very pivotal point in our history, we were invaded and told to hell or to connaught, a phrase that Oliver Cromwell told the irish people which is essentially go west were the English did not want the land or die, this was not a war but an invasion, if it is good enough for us to move on why shouldn't they?
Third we we labeled criminals by an outside force not by our own people, it is like me going to where you live taking over and then labeling you a criminal for fighting back, black people were first slaved by their OWN people and sold to Europeans, that is a guaranteed fact, the bull# that it was only for their skin colour doesn't fly but you keep singing that tune.
Fourth I never asked you to, just sick of reading your bs
Fifth If you have anything to say besides screaming "racism" get #ing on with it yourself
Sixth I will refer you to the first sentence of your last post

And more deflection

Nice of you to say that I am deflecting and then attack my avatar

The OP's point was to derail a racial bias by deflecting to a point in time where whites were enslaved as well. Even though it had not one #ing thing to do with the color of their skin. You wanna talk about demeaning a history? THAT is demeaning a history.
But let's talk about what happened to the Irish and how they are much to blame for the perpetuation of white supremacy here in America.
Did the Irish not come to America in order to escape the oppression by the British? And when they came - they suffered much of the same plight as blacks.
And what did they do, when they were lumped together in ghettos with black people? They (the irish) aligned themselves with former slave owners and other racist groups. Historically, in THIS country- some of the MOST racially bigoted people were the irish, at least in the ghettos. They wouldn't allow one oppressed group to get a leg up on their own- so they oppressed them even further.
Ever hear of the 1863 Draft Riots in New York and 1919 Race Riot in Chicago?
Now, please...continue on with your deflection and demeaning of another groups recent history. Every time you respond, you expose your own bigotry even more.

reply to post by MrPlow


Please point to one instance of bigotry in my posts.... Please do I would love to see it myself, the OP is about the fact that Irish were also used as slaves, do you have ANYTHING to refute that information? Now it seems that you have a problem with Irish people, you are bringing up instances of the draft riots and race riot in Chicago, what do they have to do with the OP? Are they your evidence that there were no white slaves? You are deflecting the topic more than ANYONE posting, I am staying pretty true to the OP, not sure if you are an idiot or trolling because no one can scream about deflection that much and then post the way you do and be serious.