They were White and They were Slaves

Originally posted by ObservingYou

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by noissucnoc16
reply to post by HairlessApe

 

How about considered property the Supreme Court or being sold by the thousands from their own people dragged here being fed uncooked pig guts , bones dog tails etc

Yea, that happened to the Irish too. BEFORE it happened to Africans. In America.

But since you didn't know about that, your ancestor's problems must be must more significant than the problems of mine. (sarcasm)

ETA: An old favorite food in Ireland is called "Blood Pudding." It's basically the fermented dark blood of a sheep congealed into a thick wafer. Yummy. But pig guts sound good too.

edit on 17-7-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-7-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

We call it 'Black Pudding'...

I personally wouldn't touch it save for a life and death situation.

In regards to Irish slaves - we still are this day.

Northern Ireland got sold out big time!

Hmm.. Are there different types of blood pudding depending on which region you're from? I visited Ireland about 5 years ago and I flew in to Belfast and traveled all the way down to Cork. I saw many different kinds of Blood Pudding served for breakfast. I'm guessing the "Black Pudding" is the one that looks as dark and as dense are charcoal. I also saw ones that were still pretty red and raw (some were even a bit gelatinous). Some places would serve both the black ones and the red ones, though I think both were made with sheep's blood.

...Admittedly, I didn't try it either. No way, that stuff was terrifying.

They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

King James II and Charles I led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.

The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.

This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia.

There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

Slavery By Consent

youtu.be...

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
Thanks for posting this - S&F.

Here is another link corroborating the same info (only not as hokey and hard to read as the op sourced link): www.africaresource.com...

A quote from your source

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong.

Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories. But, where are our public (and PRIVATE) schools???? Where are the history books? Why is it so seldom discussed?

Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims merit more than a mention from an unknown writer? Or is their story to be one that their English pirates intended: To (unlike the African book) have the Irish story utterly and completely disappear as if it never happened.

None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.

But the interesting thing is that you dont hear the Irish talking about being treated like crap or blaming their problems on it like you do black people. I come from an Irish family so I know the history and I know there was a time when a sign was hung in the pubs saying no dogs, no blacks and no Irish!

I remember when I was a kid and my friend had his new bike stolen by an older black kid who said the reason why he was doing it was because of slavery.

I also remember at school when the teacher would reprimand a black kid for misbehaving in class and they would automatically say your doing this because of my colour....truth is, as you all know black people are often taught from a young age how to become an expert in pulling the race card.

If all else fails, pull the race card

I must say...you are the very first non-black american that I have read to come right out in the open and speak the truth on this subject. I have been fully aware of how every race has been a victim of slavery however, it's just that the elite still seem to keep blacks in a psychological jail. The elite won't allow blacks to have "real" leaders or even create our own society the way that they allow other races to. And it's also a fact that other races hate blacks so that in my opinion is why we as black people say the things we say or do the things that we do. More importantly, I have prayed to Yah and asked him for forgiveness so that my heart will be cleaned. I am more interested in the big picture as well. I want love, honesty and prosperity as well as faith for all people on the planet. I am also aware of the enormous conspiracy that regards this planet earth; and how we have a huge hole at the North and South Poles. We have a hollow earth people and that's why everything is shifting at such an alarming rate due to our negligent activities here on the surface...but that's another topic. I am only one black woman who is searching and striving for truth because I'm tired of the lies and the redundance of my current life style. I want and need more for my children if they are to succeed in this world and I know that the only way for that to happen is if we learn from the past and come together to create a great and positive future.reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Wow, definitely an eye opener, I always believed slavery was not tied to one race. That said, you made A lot of real, rational points here. Respect +10

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Todzer

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by MrPlow

 

MrPlow you are in denial. Face it you are wrong on many accounts. One of your reasons for disliking white people is not justified. Now get over it.

I'M in denial? You're speaking to a white man who saw, first hand, what the system does to black people, specifically black males.

I'll say it again, this thread and the whole mindset behind it, has nothing to do with healing, but everything to do with deflection.

OP expects a fragmented "history" lesson on war criminal trade will suddenly reverse the very recent past (and in some cases ongoing) history of discrimination based SOLELY on the color of another person skin.

I can't speak for men of other countries, but I know here in America, racial discrimination is still very much alive and well and deeply rooted in our culture.

The only way healing can take place is if, on a large scale, we root racism out. Not through violence. Violence only begets violence. But rather through public scorn, ridicule, and humiliation. Bad enough that it hits the sickness in it's pockets. For example: Paula Deen.
Money seems to be the only thing people in this country understand, so maybe losing it and losing their dignity over their disgusting views will be the only thing that will put an end to this.

Lose your pride in the color of your skin. You didn't earn it. You did nothing to deserve it. You did nothing at all. It is only by chaotic chance that you ended up with it. So, to think yourself superior because of something you had nothing to do with? That is the cancer that is killing our country.

edit on 17-7-2013 by MrPlow because: (no reason given)

Your post is so demeaning to my people you arrogant #. Ireland was invaded by a nation that was the most powerful and technically advanced at that time for the sole reason of wiping out our religion, you classify my ancestors as war criminals because they had the cheek to stand up to the invading force. Putting the word history in quotation marks just shows ignorant you are to the suffering that this island had to endure. Men were shipped off to foreign lands never to be seen again, women and children sold as slaves to rich families and our native tongue all but wiped out. I have seen you blow absolute #e for pages now and can't take your "morals" anymore. The black slave population suffered, I am not contesting that but don't you dare belittle the suffering that my ancestors had to endure.

edit on 18/7/13 by Todzer because: (no reason given)

And yet more deflection. First of all, the OP posted half truths, hence the quotes around history.
Second of all, the goal of the OP was to say two points in the worlds history are the same and that blacks should move on. (tl;dr)
Third, whether you like it or not- your ancestors were considered criminals at that time. They committed crimes and paid the penalty for it. I'm not saying it was right or wrong.
Blacks were enslaved, very #ing recently, ONLY because of the color of their skin.
Fourth, I rescind nothing I said above.
Fifth, if you actually have something constructive to offer to this discussion, I suggest you do it pretty #ing quickly.
Sixth- love the guy fawkes avatar. Nothing says revolution like a Disney story about a man who tried to tear one theocracy down in order to build another.

edit on 18-7-2013 by MrPlow because: (no reason given)

Your argument makes no sense, you say that they were considered criminals at the time and so that justifies them being made slaves, but then argue that being made slaves because of the colour of your skin is different. How is it different?
If it ok to say they were cIrish and therefor criminals and could be made slaves, how is that any different from saying they were balck and therefore could be made slaves?

reply to post by WilsonWilson


The difference...

Irish criminal became Slaves.

Anything black(babies, children, women, handicap(actually they were killed)) became slaves.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


There will always be those whom can not or will not see the truth, the only thing that makes one man white and another black is the level of melatonin in the skin and that is down to the producing cell's in white skin being inactive or absent and those in black skin being active, the darker then the more of those cells there are. We eat the same, love the same, hate the same, feel the same (Sometimes about one another), cry the same, mourn the same and are born and die the same,. Yet some will always say he is not the same as me.
Slavery is and has always been evil with no exception and no justification, it was always driven by lust, greed, laziness, and inhumanity, no matter how they tried to justify it.
The song amazing grace was written by a Briton whom was a slaver and had an epiphany, upon realising his evil and the wrong he had knowingly done yet he felt the hand of God move him and became one of the most vociferous abolitionists whom dedicated the rest of his life to fighting slavery.
en.wikipedia.org...
The Irish were often not criminals but having lived somewhere for all the generations of your family to suddenly be called a squatter in your own home, well.
The Africans were whomever could be kidnaped and brought to the slave traders, the weak and sick were thrown overboard alive and by the time it got to it's destination it was not unknown for a ship to have less than half left, a tradition began were by the slavers would rape the attractive young black girls in order to make them pregnant and the lighter skinned children fetched a higher price as house slaves, often then raped again by to make even lighter house slaves.
Most Irish whom left Ireland actually past through Briton and a very large number settled here helping to provide labour for the industrial revolution.
Indeed a nearly half of Britons have Irish ancestry, Ironic don't you think.

reply to post by LUXUS
Hold on there...I think you're taking the issue lightly when it comes to how people have treated blacks in the past, and even the present based on race. I'm going to state my opinion here...just like the Trayvon Martin case...everyone wants to say that "we" blacks are trying to pull the race card when the truth is...that no one in this entire country knows when someone is being racially profiled BETTER than a black person because EVERY race, culture, government and agency profiles black people. But lets just say that Trayvon wasn't black but ended up dead because he decided to go to 7-11 late at night wearing a hoodie...mainly because of the rain...and without a weapon on him...do you think for one second that Mr. Zimmerman would have gotten off Scott-Free? No. And the bottom line is that if Mr. Zimmerman would have stayed in his vehicle he would have never put himself in harms way. But instead he decided to get out of his vehicle "with a gun" and approach this so-called predator when the police had already instructed him not to pursue him. This is what black people go through all the time..so it's not that we're paranoid, or bread to scream "it's because I'm black" No. It's because of the past and continuous unjustly actions that get taken out on us. I mean for goodness sakes...Michael Vick was facing years in prison for fighting dogs!!!! But Mr. Zimmerman killed someone underage and got all charges dropped!! Now could it be because his father is a judge? Or are people allowed to know that Mr. Zimmerman was accused of 3 charges of molestation? Of course not...lets blame it on the kid..because he had no business being out that late with a hoodie on...that's racial profiling in my opinion.

Originally posted by Ameilia
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Thank you for starting this. It is amazing the number of people (of all races) who believe that the only people who were ever slaves were blacks. This is absolutely false. Slavery has no race, it has no sex.

Slavery exists today. It is worldwide, it is in the United States. Slavery is not and was never dead. People of all colors are victims.

Saudi Princess has Slave in California

Here is a recent case (4 days ago) for your reference.

Does anyone, outside of right-wing radio, truly believe people (or most people) don't know all races have kept and been kept as slaves.

The honest fact is that the other races have had time to recover from slavery. While really a full generation hasn't passed since 90% of white America believed black people to be genetically inferior. Hell, last pres. election 25% of the voters in MS believe interracial marriage should be illegal.

Originally posted by rockybaby33
The elite won't allow blacks to have "real" leaders or even create our own society the way that they allow other races to.

This is where I have an issue with your post; the Irish were not allowed to have their own society, they were forced to integrate with the rest of society around them.

Please do not try to use this as an excuse for Black people "doing the things they do".

They could easily do the same thing that the Irish had to do, and integrate. They choose to be separate.

The Irish do the same thing to a degree, there are plenty (or were) of Irish neighborhoods in the major cities all over the country, they chose to stick together as much as possible in this Anglo society.

There are plenty of racist remnants of days gone by: the 'Paddy' Wagon, for one. All Irish are heavy drinkers for another, and don't get me started on potatoes, corned beef and cabbage, or the slur 'Mick' (I'm of Irish descent, so don't try to berate me for it; the Blacks can say their words, so I can say ours).

The Irish have managed to integrate themselves extremely well over time, and skin color isn't the reason why; they have managed to do so because they have learned to let it go, after all, the Black community gets an entire month for their history, while the Irish get a single day and the Irish celebrate it, they don't complain about it not being enough due to the sins of the past.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease, I suppose.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by WilsonWilson

 

The difference...

Irish criminal became Slaves.

Anything black(babies, children, women, handicap(actually they were killed)) became slaves.

But obviously what they were doing wasnt actually a crime if you look back, it was a way to get rid of undesirables.
The animosity towards the Irish lived on for years after, as in the No blacks, no irish, no Dogs rules so commonly found.
If you say at the time it was crime, as an excuse, then you can say, well at the time, they thought blacks were inferior.

Both were wrong then and wrong now, one is no better than the other.

So what happened after Irish slavery ended? where they subject to segregation like Blacks? When did the Irish become considered white?

Originally posted by canDarian
They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

King James II and Charles I led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.

The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.

This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia.

There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

I HAVE A DREAM.. That the above lesson needs to be given to all the race hustlers. Sharpton, Jackson, farakan, whoever else, black panthers, naacp leaders, ALL of them. they should be confined to a DEBATE

ON LIVE TV. and allow the world to see the squirming and stuttering.

Originally posted by Baddguy
So what happened after Irish slavery ended? where they subject to segregation like Blacks? When did the Irish become considered white?

Yes. The were typically segregated into their own areas of town. Just like Polish, Italian, Russians, etc. They had to form their own gangs to protect themselves from being the targets of violent crimes from other ethnically white people. They were kept poor, refused decent jobs, looked upon as subhuman, and had many negative stereotypes and superstitions surrounding them.

Known of this for several years, unfortunately several years too late. I'd have loved to serve out my ignorant highschool teacher and classmates on a particular day where they all thought slavery fell under one tone of skin. Although, when referring them to the irish slaves, this sure did put a present day conversation on slavery on mute for several long minutes.

It's a crime against humanity, not a skin color.

Originally posted by Baddguy
So what happened after Irish slavery ended? where they subject to segregation like Blacks? When did the Irish become considered white?

thats what you dont get.. the black slavery never ended, we all became enslaved.

Not saying the 'south' was sunshine and lollipops, but every other nation was abolishing slavery without a war, and most of the rhetoric by confed leaders was less about fighting to keep slaves and more to do with centralized power over sovereignty. Read up on Jefferson Davis.

A rarity the fact the irish/pict people actually fought and won freedom from enslavers, only to lose it less than a hundred years later