They were White and They were Slaves

Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by MrPlow

 

Please point to one instance of bigotry in my posts.... Please do I would love to see it myself, the OP is about the fact that Irish were also used as slaves, do you have ANYTHING to refute that information? Now it seems that you have a problem with Irish people, you are bringing up instances of the draft riots and race riot in Chicago, what do they have to do with the OP? Are they your evidence that there were no white slaves? You are deflecting the topic more than ANYONE posting, I am staying pretty true to the OP, not sure if you are an idiot or trolling because no one can scream about deflection and then post the way you do and be serious.

Let me repeat it, again. The slavery that was talked about in the OP was slavery of a people who were convicted of crimes. To try and compare that to slavery of a people because of the color of their skin is an insult and every time you or anyone else tries to do it- it comes across as implied bigotry.
"Forget about your recent past, because at one time my people suffered too...so lets move on" It's disgusting and its a typical form of soft racism.
And to further note: its not like the irish are blame free IN THIS COUNTRY for the perpetuation of violence towards another races skin color and white supremacy. The rioting I mentioned above was primarily irish folks lynching and brutalizing black folks.
So, given the irish's own recent history of brutality against another race- you're not going to find much sympathy here.

It's sad that this site has turned into Stormfront 2.0 and a bastion of white supremacy.

I just can't wrap my head around the premise of this thread, it is scary so many agree with the OP.

Originally posted by Baddguy
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Hey thanks for the information. Some of the info is new to me but my question is if both whites and blacks were slaves at a point, why did you think blacks suffered more? A few decades ago blacks weren't allowed to own land or companies in the U.S. when other Jews and Irish just had trouble finding a job, why did it impact blacks harder? and Why is it that White slavery is really never talked about? i mean if it was just as bad or worse, would we be taught about it in school like black slavery?

I think I have answered this in other posts as have others giving their views. I don't think black slaves in America had it worse than white slaves and there is evidence that the Irish slaves had it the worst possibly because they were much cheaper than black slaves. The blacks complained of being treated as if they were Irish if their Masters were too harsh on them. I don't think anyone can really make a wholesale judgement on who had it the worst. I am sure all who were slaves despised their station. It is innate to be free and to be openly controlled and chained must have been unbearable. Today, we are just as controlled and chained up, but we are given the illusion of freedom. Our lives have some blessings the slaves did not, but we are not free.

As for the terrible Jim Crow laws and such, all I can say is that its about power. If you can get something over on a group, cold hearts will do it. I believe the system of quotas and affirmative action is just as damaging to whites as the Jim crow laws were. I am not aware of blacks not being able to own property, so I'd like to know your facts on that issue. Blacks owned white slaves in America so how could they not own property?

Racism has existed and will exist until Messiah returns. It is so sad we cannot let go of the past. I am not saying forget it, but if we continue as we are, we will come to a bitter end.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

I am not aware of blacks not being able to own property, so I'd like to know your facts on that issue. Blacks owned white slaves in America so how could they not own property?

Link

The blacks complained of being treated as if they were Irish if their Masters were too harsh on them.

are you sure?

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by MrPlow

 

Please point to one instance of bigotry in my posts.... Please do I would love to see it myself, the OP is about the fact that Irish were also used as slaves, do you have ANYTHING to refute that information? Now it seems that you have a problem with Irish people, you are bringing up instances of the draft riots and race riot in Chicago, what do they have to do with the OP? Are they your evidence that there were no white slaves? You are deflecting the topic more than ANYONE posting, I am staying pretty true to the OP, not sure if you are an idiot or trolling because no one can scream about deflection and then post the way you do and be serious.

Let me repeat it, again. The slavery that was talked about in the OP was slavery of a people who were convicted of crimes. To try and compare that to slavery of a people because of the color of their skin is an insult and every time you or anyone else tries to do it- it comes across as implied bigotry.
"Forget about your recent past, because at one time my people suffered too...so lets move on" It's disgusting and its a typical form of soft racism.
And to further note: its not like the irish are blame free IN THIS COUNTRY for the perpetuation of violence towards another races skin color and white supremacy. The rioting I mentioned above was primarily irish folks lynching and brutalizing black folks.
So, given the irish's own recent history of brutality against another race- you're not going to find much sympathy here.

You are demonstrating cognitive dissonance so much here. You just said the Irish lashed out at other races and are not blame free. Just what do you think the vocal race baiters of the Black population is doing today? THAT IS MY POINT and you are making it for me, so thank you. Do you not see that blacks have victimized INNOCENT whites in violent crimes in much greater numbers today than whites are doing to blacks today? You seem to be oh so willing to damn the actions of whites, but ignore the actions of blacks as if it's ok because of how they have been treated in the past.

You are perpetuating the hatred, and for that I am sorry for you. One day you will see your blatant hypocrisy.

reply to post by MrPlow


So they slavery of a group of people because of their religion is not important because the are white? It is ok about what happened to the Irish but not what happened to black people because of colour of the colour of their skin, I have not once had a bigoted statement in this thread but you have accused me of being a bigot, I am still waiting for that evidence, the fact of the matter is I have black cousins and a black aunt(yes there is black people in Ireland) andI have had a similar discussion with them before and they have never got as "outraged" as you and they certainly haven't accused me of racism. Now I would like to reiterate what the hell does the draft riots and Chicago race riots got to do with the OP?

Originally posted by Baddguy
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

I am not aware of blacks not being able to own property, so I'd like to know your facts on that issue. Blacks owned white slaves in America so how could they not own property?

Link

The blacks complained of being treated as if they were Irish if their Masters were too harsh on them.

are you sure?

edit on 18-7-2013 by Baddguy because: (no reason given)

Read the book, "They were white and they were slaves." Also This Site

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


another Link


so what was the difference between a black slave and an Irish slave? was one worth more?

Originally posted by Baddguy
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

another Link


so what was the difference between a black slave and an Irish slave? was one worth more?

This makes me wonder if you actually read the op. If you haven't please do. Yes, the Irish sold for 5 sterling and the black sold for 50 sterling. check out the link I just posted in the last reply I put up.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


i read it..im really trying to understand if your trying to educate people on Irish slavery or "they didn't complain..why do you all complain" because that's some bigot ish...

IMO to say Irish slaves had it worse then black slaves is kinda wild

reply to post by Baddguy


Many are failing to see the fact that getting owned by their own skin closer is less brutal then owned by a foreign/outsider/invader skin color

Would an Israeli be better under another Israeli or an Arab?

Originally posted by Baddguy
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

i read it..im really trying to understand if your trying to educate people on Irish slavery or "they didn't complain..why do you all complain" because that's some bigot ish...

IMO to say Irish slaves had it worse then black slaves is kinda wild

edit on 18-7-2013 by Baddguy because: (no reason given)

I'm guessing that you read my post, and not any of the books about this. I am saying that on some plantations such as those in Barbados, the Irish were lower than the black slaves. Is it so hard for you to realize that some people had it as bad if not worse than their black counterparts owned by the same Master? Do the logic. I buy one black slave for 50 sterling and can buy 10 white slaves for the same amount. How much value to you put on the cheaper slave? If I have dangerous work to be done like land clearing and ditch digging that will kill many from exhaustion do I use the cheaper labor or the more expensive labor?

I think we all know this is about business and the answer is clear.

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by MrPlow

 

Please point to one instance of bigotry in my posts.... Please do I would love to see it myself, the OP is about the fact that Irish were also used as slaves, do you have ANYTHING to refute that information? Now it seems that you have a problem with Irish people, you are bringing up instances of the draft riots and race riot in Chicago, what do they have to do with the OP? Are they your evidence that there were no white slaves? You are deflecting the topic more than ANYONE posting, I am staying pretty true to the OP, not sure if you are an idiot or trolling because no one can scream about deflection and then post the way you do and be serious.

Let me repeat it, again. The slavery that was talked about in the OP was slavery of a people who were convicted of crimes. To try and compare that to slavery of a people because of the color of their skin is an insult and every time you or anyone else tries to do it- it comes across as implied bigotry.
"Forget about your recent past, because at one time my people suffered too...so lets move on" It's disgusting and its a typical form of soft racism.
And to further note: its not like the irish are blame free IN THIS COUNTRY for the perpetuation of violence towards another races skin color and white supremacy. The rioting I mentioned above was primarily irish folks lynching and brutalizing black folks.
So, given the irish's own recent history of brutality against another race- you're not going to find much sympathy here.

Its not about sympathy, it is about the fact that many people of various types have been abused and ill used throughout history and thus it is illogical for one single group to wrap themselves in the mantle of "victimhood."

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Baddguy

 

Many are failing to see the fact that getting owned by their own skin closer is less brutal then owned by a foreign/outsider/invader skin color

Would an Israeli be better under another Israeli or an Arab?

However, that is not a fact at all. History has demonstrated that slaves, regardless of color of the slave/master were often treated quite brutally.

reply to post by NavyDoc

However, that is not a fact at all...

So the Israeli would be treated the same under Arab Master? really?

Originally posted by wurmryder
It's sad that this site has turned into Stormfront 2.0 and a bastion of white supremacy.

I just can't wrap my head around the premise of this thread, it is scary so many agree with the OP.

It is not that ATS is a stormfront... but the majority are white.. so it might feel like it when a racial debate is out numbered by 6-7x the opposition.

But ATS have had some extremist stormfront like members, havn't seen those around.

Thanks for posting this - S&F.

Here is another link corroborating the same info (only not as hokey and hard to read as the op sourced link): www.africaresource.com...

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Business wise that a lot of makes sense...what im saying is that logically, wouldn't an Irish identify with a white slave owner more so than an African slave? weren't African slaves look down on because of their Skin Color?

and why didn't the Irish suffer the Jim Crow laws and such after slavery?

to clarify i am not denying the Irish slave treatment and im pretty sure black and Irish had some sort of bond during those times..i want to know when the "split" happened and Irish became white

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by MrPlow

Originally posted by Todzer
reply to post by MrPlow

 

Please point to one instance of bigotry in my posts.... Please do I would love to see it myself, the OP is about the fact that Irish were also used as slaves, do you have ANYTHING to refute that information? Now it seems that you have a problem with Irish people, you are bringing up instances of the draft riots and race riot in Chicago, what do they have to do with the OP? Are they your evidence that there were no white slaves? You are deflecting the topic more than ANYONE posting, I am staying pretty true to the OP, not sure if you are an idiot or trolling because no one can scream about deflection and then post the way you do and be serious.

Let me repeat it, again. The slavery that was talked about in the OP was slavery of a people who were convicted of crimes. To try and compare that to slavery of a people because of the color of their skin is an insult and every time you or anyone else tries to do it- it comes across as implied bigotry.
"Forget about your recent past, because at one time my people suffered too...so lets move on" It's disgusting and its a typical form of soft racism.
And to further note: its not like the irish are blame free IN THIS COUNTRY for the perpetuation of violence towards another races skin color and white supremacy. The rioting I mentioned above was primarily irish folks lynching and brutalizing black folks.
So, given the irish's own recent history of brutality against another race- you're not going to find much sympathy here.

Its not about sympathy, it is about the fact that many people of various types have been abused and ill used throughout history and thus it is illogical for one single group to wrap themselves in the mantle of "victimhood."

So, the idea is to deny one group of "victimhood" by going even further back in the history books and claiming victimhood?

Please explain how this can even begin to heal us as a nation?

Again, the entire logic is childish. The only way, in America, that we can heal and move away from this is to accept it all for what it is and we all do something to squash it whenever it happens.
But minimizing one groups history, by going back even further in history and attempting to compare criminals being enslaved for crimes they committed to a people being enslaved because of the color of their skin is ridiculous, it's a denial, and it deserves no further merit. The only thing it does is further alienates ones recent plight.
It's like when someone is in pain for some reason, and you try to comfort them by trying to say you suffered worse at one time. It's not helpful and the person on the receiving end of such 'advice" doesn't benefit at all from it. No one benefits from it. It just drives a further wedge into the divide.
Especially when said group played a major role in another groups brutal treatment. Frankly, it's a bit of a slap in the face

Originally posted by Baddguy
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Business wise that a lot of makes scene...what im saying is that logically, wouldn't an Irish identify with a white slave owner more so than an African slave? weren't African slaves look down on because of their Skin Color?

and why didn't the Irish suffer the Jim Crow laws and such after slavery?

to clarify i am not denying the Irish slave treatment and im pretty sure black and Irish had some sort of bond during those times..i want to know when the "split" happened and Irish became white

They could have had a bond, but the irish instead chose to make another group feel less than them and, as you said, aligned themselves with slave owners and other white supremacist groups.

Much like the bulk of conservatives today. Even though the GOP is run primarily by money interests, the white, rural poor who support them and argue against things such as welfare do so because they don't see themselves as poor- they see themselves as "not yet rich"