Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by DAVID64

 

There will be a end to racism and discrimination, but that'll just mean that the last of us has died off. Humankind will be extinct. Problem solved!

If everyone had the same skin colour, then there would be a bias on the sound of a voice, the shape of an ear, the length of hair on someone's head, their height.

The fear of another group, another population, will always breed bias.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

my post is about having a discussion, not a debate, and not about laws. a discussion between americans on how they should treat each other with respect to race and everything else.

there shouldn't be laws to force people into acting a certain way (like being polite), but it should be encouraged by our society. it's more about unification than a discussion between groups. more about my fellow americans than "my fellow *insert race* americans".

As long as race can be exploited for personal gain there will always be people using it. Everyone knows deep down that it’s wrong. The only conversation that needs to be had is between you and yourself and you and your kids (by YOU I mean each of us). Change comes when we all take personal responsibility, and those who don't are held to account.

Racism the word has lost it's meaning. Racism in practice is incorrect and ignorant. It's scientifically wrong. So what are we really getting hung up on? Who believes genetics has anything to do with how someone behaves?

I believe if the root cause of discrimination and prejudice was studied it would be discovered that the way someone is dressed and the way they speak is a higher order discriminator. I believe it's logically valid. It's intellectually shaky but still valid if you need to make a fast decision. So start deconstructing the definition of racism and it all falls apart.

reply to post by whenandwhere


Oh, I know. I'm country as hell. I was born in Hazard, Ky, have a southern accent so think you can slice it with a knife. These guys didn't care, I did get called a "country motherf***er" a lot' But, it was all in fun, ya know? We saw past color to what we all had in common. They didn't hate me for what somebody did 100 years ago or blame someone/anyone for their place in life. They saw what they needed to do to better themselves and did it. That was 25 years ago and we're still friends.

reply to post by seabag


Who was it that said "Be the change."? I can't remember, but it's a good quote. Until we all do this, it will never change.

My people have to realize that thinking all white canadians have it better, simply because of their lighter color, it's just as bad as the white people that think we are all drunks and drug addicts, living the high life off of their taxes. I could go on and on about every single racist view, but that would take forever. You cannot be prejudiced towards others, then turn around and cry about any prejudice aimed at you. We all have to change our way of thinking, even the best of us have room for improvement.

HU=Snake
MAN= Ape

Too much Ape or too much Snake can cause problems.

Never know...Maybe NOAA, FDA, USDA, Monsanto and Pharma giants are trying to correct it all.

reply to post by TKDRL


Be the change you want to see in the world.

I think it was Ghandi

reply to post by TKDRL

Who was it that said "Be the change."? I can't remember, but it's a good quote. Until we all do this, it will never change.

Then I think we’ve determined that it will never change. Everyone matures at his/her own pace and there will NEVER be a time when all of us are mature at the same time. This means racism will always exist to some extent. The only hope is to have a vast majority who are mature and responsible so we can keep the others in check.

There is no solution…and I would be suspicious of anyone saying they have one.

reply to post by seabag

The only conversation that needs to be had is between you and yourself and you and your kids

that has already taken place, yet the issue remains.

there is a lack of awareness on what real racism is. there is a difference between playing the race card and real racism. i'd like to have an honest discussion about that difference. if my family and i are the only ones that show up to the discussion there wouldn't be much of a point.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

that has already taken place, yet the issue remains.

there is a lack of awareness on what real racism is. there is a difference between playing the race card and real racism. i'd like to have an honest discussion about that difference. if my family and i are the only ones that show up to the discussion there wouldn't be much of a point.

Sure there would….you’d be doing your part.

Everyone has a different view about what is or is not racism. Everyone has to discover right/wrong for themselves and do their part. We’re individuals in a diverse culture. We can’t agree on anything.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

They don't have to, they are free to do what they please. It is not going to help them though. They will not be able to have any education outside of high school, and many places won't hire them. How can you teach someone you cannot communicate with? Would you hire someone you couldn't communicate with?

I understand what you're trying to get at, but I think you're missing my point. To say that they can't be taught is completely wrong however. I have been taught and came from there. To say that some don't want to be taught on the other hand is very true... and occurrs no matter how well you speak English.

I recenltly (3 weeks ago) hired a young lady which is deaf and only has college experience in Java programming. I do not speak sign language, nor does anyone on my team speak sign language. I've also hired 3 people that speak very broken English as they are of Asian countries. I also hired one girl which speaks... even during meetings etc. with an urban to her tone and word choice. Yes... I will hire someone that I think I can learn to communicate with even though I currently cannot (hence me hiring the deaf college graduate).

reply to post by seabag

Everyone has a different view about what is or is not racism. Everyone has to discover right/wrong for themselves and do their part. We’re individuals in a diverse culture. We can’t agree on anything.

this is where i slightly disagree. people obviously have their own notions of what is and isn't racism, but racism can be quantified. the forms that racism takes may be complex and varied, but the definition itself is simple.

i hope that the definition is allowed to apply equally to all, but it currently doesn't.

Originally posted by DAVID64
reply to post by whenandwhere

 

Oh, I know. I'm country as hell. I was born in Hazard, Ky, have a southern accent so think you can slice it with a knife. These guys didn't care, I did get called a "country motherf***er" a lot

' But, it was all in fun, ya know? We saw past color to what we all had in common. They didn't hate me for what somebody did 100 years ago or blame someone/anyone for their place in life. They saw what they needed to do to better themselves and did it. That was 25 years ago and we're still friends.

@DAVID64 p.m. me. I also was born in Hazard, Ky but I have traveled extensive in the Air Force and other jobs so I have lost my country accent. When I lived in the San Francisco Bay area I could not identify with the Asians or the whites so I worked with and became good friends with at least 3 black guys. These guys worked for me at one point and when I became a corporate trainer I helped and encouraged them to excel. One of the eventually became my boss after he finished his degree from U. of Phoenix. We truly were friends and helped each other out. We were in tele-communications and worked together very well and it seemed to me that we embraced our cultural differences each trying to learn from the other not only with job related activities but with our personal lives. My thinking/feeling was that we were the true Americans. Much more so than the Russians, Latinos, Vietnamese and other Asians!

So by embracing our differences we better understand each other and all of us benefited from the experience!

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by charles1952

 

My only question is this: why would you embrace a language and behavior that is known to cause economic hardship, then complain because your opportunities are limited? Poor English is a key indicator to an employer that you may lack the insight needed to do a job, unless you don't speak English as a first language.

The problem here is growing up in a black community, proper English is most likely NOT the first language learned. European English speaking individuals arean't discriminated against... neither are Austrailian. The black communities have their own interpretation of the language just as these countries do, and all learn it from childhood. European's come to the US and keep their terms, phrases, and accent. Why must the black community conform to the non-urban standard... dropping their terms and phrases, losing their accent?

You do realize that the black communities we are talking about are in America, right? It isn't like they are immigrants.

This is a completely separate culture that was created within the culture already existing in America. Would you not think it might indicate a lack of desire to take part in our national culture to do this? And doing it willingly?

Why would people who have created their own culture and language complain about the ramifications of it?

I have quite a few black family members. We have all laughed about how they have 2 voices: the one they use around black people, and the one they use everywhere else. And while it may be somewhat humorous to joke about, there is a real question there: why? Why propagate a culture and linguistic pattern that is known to decrease success? And when you do, why complain about it?

And it is to a degree that someone who is black who doesn't "act black" is insulted? Have you ever heard the things said about Neil deGrasse-Tyson?

edit on 17-7-2013 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

It doesn't matter if they are immigrants or not! They are from a different CULTURE and taught a different way than you were! Geographic location in America should NOT matter... why because MAJORITY in that area speak the same way and that's what s/he has LEARNED. I also don't see white people that are referred to as "rednecks" being discriminated against. I've worked with A LOT of down south, country accent, weird phrase saying people from America. Nobody is saying "those rednecks should really learn to speak proper English". But urban blacks should???

National culture??? Really??? Since this country was called America up until 50 - 60 years ago (almost 177 years went by), blacks were taught to stay to themselves, not interact with whites, call the white man Master, only eat the scraps that whites didn't want (pig feet, chitterlings, etc.), and you don't think that the culture sticks? 177 years of de-moralization, people STILL ALIVE that experienced this crap FIRST HAND (like my grandmother being raped by the white man she worked for)... and 60 years is supposed to make all the difference in blacks social habits??? Be serious for one second please.

The only one wanting to make a big deal about this is the democrats and the mainstream media to take attention away from egypt, turkey, the spying, ufos&aliens, the corruption with bush and obama, etc. So many important issues YET we are stuck debating a non-racial issue like zimmerman vs martin.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by TKDRL

 

Who was it that said "Be the change."? I can't remember, but it's a good quote. Until we all do this, it will never change.

Then I think we’ve determined that it will never change. Everyone matures at his/her own pace and there will NEVER be a time when all of us are mature at the same time. This means racism will always exist to some extent. The only hope is to have a vast majority who are mature and responsible so we can keep the others in check.

There is no solution…and I would be suspicious of anyone saying they have one.

No, it is not going to change, survival instinct,

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


I was thinking about this thread last night before I went to bed (I know…ATS is a sickness ) and I was trying to figure out why I feel that racism is a personal decision. I recall my time in the Marine Corps and how there was never any racial divide amongst my fellow Marines. How does the Marine Corps take a huge diverse group of people with varying backgrounds from across the country, put them all together and not have racial tensions? The only thing I can come up with is discipline, personal responsibility and our shared goals. These are all things that are lacking in society. We can’t force people to unite.

I remember the unity in this country after 9/11. Sure, there were many who didn’t get on board but as a whole the country was united. For a brief time, most people forgot about race, religion, politics, etc and just united behind our common goal….the defense of AMERICA. We chose to put aside our differences and work together.

Things dissolved rather quickly for obvious reasons BUT….I think you get my point.

So what can we (the majority of us) unite behind so that we put aside our differences once again??

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The only one wanting to make a big deal about this is the democrats and the mainstream media to take attention away from egypt, turkey, the spying, ufos&aliens, the corruption with bush and obama, etc. So many important issues YET we are stuck debating a non-racial issue like zimmerman vs martin.

I agree with you EC I have started topics on those subjects, they get little interest.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

How does the Marine Corps take a huge diverse group of people with varying backgrounds from across the country, put them all together and not have racial tensions? The only thing I can come up with is discipline, personal responsibility and our shared goals. These are all things that are lacking in society. We can’t force people to unite.

edit on 17-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

I would say that everyone is pretty much treated equally is a bigger factor than the discipline. Granted, discipline is still a factor.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The only one wanting to make a big deal about this is the democrats and the mainstream media to take attention away from egypt, turkey, the spying, ufos&aliens, the corruption with bush and obama, etc. So many important issues YET we are stuck debating a non-racial issue like zimmerman vs martin.

I agree with you EC I have started topics on those subjects, they get little interest.

When I told my parents zimmerman was innocent they looked at me with pure amazement like I was speaking a foreign language. I tried to explain and I kept getting cut off. It shows how thorough the brainwashing by the media is. Pure disgusting!

Sometimes I really do want to smash the television, but I control myself...somehow!