12 Things Curiosity Forgot to Inspect & Some Concerns About NASA's Information Policy

reply to post by wildespace


It's funny how narrow-minded your comments appear, except you see yourself as smarter than most people..

I can discern this about you from afar.. Instead of addressing the Op concerns, you are attacking those who dare to question officialdom and calling them ignorant, if you only knew it is you who are this way, perhaps you could escape your own.. It is self imposed because of your fear of peers and that is all politically derived, which has long been the intent of the brainwashing program.. A huge success.

The oddness of the "rocks" on mars are unlike anything that you would expect from a barren planet that has never had life.. The past and current behaviors of NASA are totally relevant to the OP concerns, and show that lying like NASA has been caught doing, is not a perfect science.. Mistakes are always uncovered when deceit is commonly practiced.

Originally posted by wildespace

 

Great reply. I'd also add that what may look featureless and boring to you might provide valuable clues to scientists about martian environment and its geological past. Curiosity is up there to do science, not to enterntain the public with pictures of weird rocks.

This thread smacks of ignorance.

No ignorance, honestly. I think the science team at NASA/JPL is probably one of the best teams you can set up for such a mission.

My suspicions were more about the information policy. I see a strange correlation between interesting features (that could have quickly been checked close-up) and the tendency of NASA/JPL to not inspect exactly those formations - at least officially. It wouldn't have wasted any more time & resources than checking the other things lying around of which we have countless MAHLI & MastCam images.

P.S.: Your rational view is appreciated & I respect your opinion. But I also think the OP offers some good arguments for a potential cover-up ...

reply to post by alienreality


But how many of those rocks are in reality tiny, and only look big because of perspective? I've seen some of them that are supposed to be remains of buildings that are in reality very small rocks.

reply to post by jeep3r


I'm sure you saw Zaphod58's post back on page one, which is: Curiosity has a limited life span, many things to do, and little time to get it done.

So far most of the probes and rovers sent out into space and to Mars, have performed well past their designed life spans and been able to have added missions to do. But that does not mean that Curiosity will also last well past it's intended life span. It might not.

What you are proposing is that Curiosity be reprogrammed from what it's been instructed to do, to instead go and visit a rock that people here (note that, people here....not at JPL, NASA or some university who know geology, rocks and Mars itself) find strange in photographs.
To figure out a new navigational path to said rock that people here (note that again....people here on ATS and other sites) find interesting because of how it is shaped, how the shadows fall, etc.
To deviate from a set course, to visit an object that does not seem to be interesting to those that know geology and the science behind it, to add more risk to the rover, simply to satisfy the public's curiosity about why a rock is shaped the way it is.

I'm sure that if they did see something that they thought was not suppose to be there...is artificial in nature, or were the possible fossilized remains of something, they would have no trouble at all sending Curiosity on a deviated course to investigate further.

I think what we are seeing here are two things: a trust issue, and a superiority issue.

People here just do not want to, or can not stand the thought that they would have to trust JPL/NASA and scientist that what appears to be a real artifact is in fact only a rock, because that would mean having to trust JPL/NASA and those scientist, when, a large chunk of people here spend a LOT of their time here on ATS trying to prove that JPL/NASA and scientist are in fact covering things up in some great conspiracy. Believing otherwise would mean that they've spent a LOT of time (or even chunks of their lives), wasting their time. And that would be intolerable. Therefore: JPL/NASA and scientist MUST be lying/hiding/covering up things....

Superiority issue is those here that feel they know better than JPL/NASA and scientist. Never mind that they do not have degrees and formal education in the field of geology, planetology, etc. To them if you see a picture of a guinea pig on Mars....then it MUST be a guinea pig on Mars. They feel that they are "in the know" or "know better than all", and there for anyone that says differently MUST be either trying to help JPL/NASA hiding something, or are idiots.

The extremely ironic thing to me is this:

Let's say Curiosity makes it over to Mt. Sharp. And in the layers of deposits, actually finds fossilized life in those layers...........it will be the biggest news and history changing event to all of humankind.
Yet, on here. many people will be screaming:

"It's fake!"
"It's a cover up! There is much more advanced things there, they just don't want us to know!"
"So what? I still want them to go back and look at that shoe/lizard/boat anchor/insert whatever you saw here! "

And that's going to be so sad to see.

We should question everything. I agree with that.

That means that we should also not just question what JPL/NASA shows us or tells us.....but we should also question those that have this hard core belief that JPL/NASA is always lying to them.

So fair is fair.

reply to post by Zaphod58


True, there are many cases of that happening, not realizing the scale they are viewing. still, small or large objects with odd shapes still draw attention, except NASA always pooh-poohs these things without fail, every single time... That in itself is what is really suspect here.

This plus they are caught backtracking earlier official statements they make with the expected refutations of what someone said that wasn't authorized to say...

One of the NASA pilots I know personally who is from my home town, says that the bosses there hide things all the time in order to keep congress from asking them undesired questions.. That in itself is why the air force created bluebook, was to get congress off their collective back..

Imagine how much attention NASA would get if they made any interesting ( controversial) announcements, their phones would never stop ringing from the type of people they would not think of hanging up on... They don't want that happening.

reply to post by alienreality


Mars wasn't always barren. It had a thicker atmosphere, volcanic action, and water. The land on mars has had almost the same geologic forces working on it for billions of years as earth. I could link you to thousands of pictures of strangely shaped rocks on earth that don't look natural to the casual layman, but they are in fact completely natural.

That isn't to say there aren't some interesting anomalies in a few mars pictures, there are. However, the good ones get lost in amongst the dozens of threads that start with titles like "OMG LIZARD ON MARS, ULTIMATE PROOF OF LIFE ON MARS!!!!111ONE!" , and the authors of such threads who make them do more damage to their cause than any supposed government shill could.

Long ago Mars had an atmosphere, we know it most likely had large seas, there was geologic activity (volcanoes). The odds that Mars had, at the least, microbial life are getting better by the year with all we learn from the rovers.
The problem is there are a lot of threads by a lot of people in this forum who muddy the field for the really good anomalies, simply because they don't know a damn thing about Mars to begin with. They're on the internet, the biggest repository of knowledge known to man, and they can't even look up simple information on it.

This is why there are so many "it's a rock" posts and people. They've given up on looking because some people post a thread every time there's a rock with a curve on it.

reply to post by jeep3r

6. Was Curiosity's visit to Glenelg really just an 'intermission'? A deviation from the official plan as stated by NASA/JPL? Curiosity landed just about 400m away and went straight into that area encountering a whole variety of strange formations!? Didn't MRO data already indicate from orbit that this area consisted of mineral rich layers & deposits as well as other interesting - probably unique - signatures? After almost one year into the mission, I do have to speculate and ask: why exactly was it declared an intermission after all? Didn't it rather look like a major part of the overall-mission?

Seems that curiosity did what it was supposed to do at Glenelg..

Last week, the mission finished investigating science targets in the Glenelg area, about 500 yards (half a kilometer) east of where Curiosity landed. The mission's next major destination is at the lower layers of Mount Sharp, about 5 miles (8 kilometers) southwest of Glenelg. The July 9 drive brought Curiosity's odometry to about 325 feet (99 meters) since completing the Glenelg investigations and about 0.51 mile (0.95 kilometer) since landing on Mars in August 2012.

At targets in the Glenelg area, where Curiosity worked for the first half of 2013, the rover found evidence for an ancient wet environment that had conditions favorable for microbial life. This means the mission already has accomplished its main science objective.

mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by alienreality



The oddness of the "rocks" on mars are unlike anything that you would expect from a barren planet that has never had life..

Uh, no.
They are rocks subjected to various forces of erosion.

What WOULD one expect from a "barren planet that has never had life"?

reply to post by jeep3r


You should email this thread/presentation to people at NASA or people who work with the rover or take questions from the public, I think you put a lot of time and effort, and perhaps they have honest answers for you. Its worth the try, in my mind at least, you already did the bulk of the work.

Great, great and I will say it again, simply GREAT!

Nasa has alot to explain. The people here believe that there is nothing worth investigating. I mean if we really listen to nasa and the naysayers which seem to have an alliance, mars is just this red rock with "NOTHING" on what so ever. I am pleased to know that there are other agencies, and forces that that have a different opinion. I will stop here, I am not going to make an extra long post but, from the false colors, to the anomalous data or the idea that there would not and can not be an anomaly worth investigating, is just simply absurd.

Thank you so much for putting this in one thread, and you did it very well. You are one of the few people on here that does NOT possess the "explain away" mentality or approach. Thank you and keep doing what you are doing.
Peace and blessings.

reply to post by jeep3r


The corporations run the show now, if there is technology or anything to be had you may as well give up on any idea of ever knowing about it, they will kill to keep it quiet and may have done so already, during it's supposed down time what do you think the Curiosity was really doing.

S+F

I think there is a need to question what is a surface rock on Mars to begin with, it's not going to be the same as Earth rock if it's been around for a long time as in the formation of Mars, even if it was formed in the same way. Curiosity is having a field day crushing some of those 'rocks' to dust, even though the surface appears basically soft, elsewhere it shatters them. A tank on Earth would have trouble crushing Earth granite rubble to dust. Mars seems to be bone dry, except for some moisture forming. that means much of the rock is bone dry too. In other places formations look like something conjured up by a little moisture, sand, dust and wind a bit like sandcastles, only to be later drilled with holes and blown into curious shapes by the wind once any moisture in the aggregate is gone. That's the trouble with a snapshot, it only captures a moment in time. My guess is if there were a static camera on some object of interest like a Mars 'sandcastle' structure, it would change in shape in a relatively short time.

reply to post by jeep3r


You've put together a decent thread.....however....I don't think Curiosity or NASA do "requests"......especially not from random conspiracy websites.

Originally posted by optimus primal
reply to post by alienreality

 

Mars wasn't always barren. It had a thicker atmosphere, volcanic action, and water. The land on mars has had almost the same geologic forces working on it for billions of years as earth. I could link you to thousands of pictures of strangely shaped rocks on earth that don't look natural to the casual layman, but they are in fact completely natural.

That isn't to say there aren't some interesting anomalies in a few mars pictures, there are. However, the good ones get lost in amongst the dozens of threads that start with titles like "OMG LIZARD ON MARS, ULTIMATE PROOF OF LIFE ON MARS!!!!111ONE!" , and the authors of such threads who make them do more damage to their cause than any supposed government shill could.

Long ago Mars had an atmosphere, we know it most likely had large seas, there was geologic activity (volcanoes). The odds that Mars had, at the least, microbial life are getting better by the year with all we learn from the rovers.
The problem is there are a lot of threads by a lot of people in this forum who muddy the field for the really good anomalies, simply because they don't know a damn thing about Mars to begin with. They're on the internet, the biggest repository of knowledge known to man, and they can't even look up simple information on it.

This is why there are so many "it's a rock" posts and people. They've given up on looking because some people post a thread every time there's a rock with a curve on it.

Amongst one of the most important GEOLOGICAL processes on earth has been the presence of Life itself, it has shaped the climate and even the very rocks themselves, it has processed so much of the surface material of the earth that a true comparison of the type you suggest would require a truly lifeless world to use for example.
So your point being that the rocks on Mars are like those on Earth well this is interesting in the opposite way to your intention I think or maybe this was your intention,.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by jeep3r

 

You've put together a decent thread.....however....I don't think Curiosity or NASA do "requests"......especially not from random conspiracy websites.

Aha! now you have touched on a most salient point. The thing is, Curiosity is just a fecking tourist wandering around and kicking up sand in the main, albeit doing important experimental work, that has to be checked and rechecked in case of contamination etc. Here on Earth we have static cameras everywhere, even the spy ones that cost only a few shillings and the NSA listening and likely watching most things. On Mars, zilch. On the Moon, zilch. Does that make sense in areas that have current dynamics? So we have Curiosity bristling with applications to drill holes into rocks and grab samples but no seemingly multi fuctions like sticking a cheapy static camera at a place of interest for as long as it lasts. Is 'cash strapped' NASA asking for donations? not that I know of, but if they did do something that could involve the rest of us, I would send them a couple of bob.

Great thread jeep3r, well presented

Bringing forth the idea or speculation that NASA and government is not telling the truth of everything they know, and have discovered regarding the past 5 decades (at least) - is like telling a child Santa Claus doesnt exist...

Those who follow science, NASA and take everything they say as 100% truth and fact of what reality actually is - will not accept the idea that these organizations are only telling a tiny percentage of what they have discoverd and learned in the past half century regarding technology, ET life.. Just anything that hints to outter space or extraterrestrial.

What Im saying is that you will not convince people that what these agencies are telling the public is not everything they KNOW or have discovered.

Society is a geometric box - constructed in a complex way of keeping human minds occupied, obediant, silenced, and ignorant.

Those who are above society do not fall trap in the box; they are the ones tricking everyone in the box, leeching their energy which turns into "money", and using that money to make these super-agencies like USA, NASA, CIA, NSA, FBI etc.. They control the main heads within these organizations - they control those who follow these angencies and their brances.

So everything people are told, has already been sorted out way before that "breaking information/news" came to the public domain. You get it?

Regarding NASA (which is NAZI - after WW2 - the American government adopted the NAZI scientists, including "rocket master" Wernher Von Braun - thus changing the space agency entirely): As you said Jeep3r - the public is not getting live feed, they are not getting things in real time.

People are dumb as a baby if they think Nasa doesnt take the first images - decide if they are public domain worthy - then release those they CHOOSE to. Seriously, go check your logic if you cant figure out how it really works. No multi-billion dollar($) agency is going to let the PUBLIC SHEEP see what is on an 'alien' planet without taking the good stuff out.

If people dont understand what I am saying - they dont understand how governments and THEIR agencies operate and are constructed. And those people can continue getting played - eye humping "martian" rocks and moon craters

Nasa ROBS the public American's by taking millions > > > billions of DOLLARS ($) > to create a cheap robot with some crappy cameras > while taking the rest of those $billions and using it on secret space programs.

GET THE HINT AMERICA. They TAKE BILLIONS - show you pictures of ROCKS - tell you THEIR version of things - and you sit there with your thumb in your mouth eye humping your computer screeens

The American government - which is what NASA/Nazi is a branch of - lies, deceives, manipulates, and robs the tax payer's of America..

This is not off topic - this is perfectly on topic with NASA not telling the truth - and people not understanding the NASA is still GOVERNMENT ran

Good thread, peace

Originally posted by jeep3r
reply to post by wildespace

 

But how could it be a waste of time? We're not talking about drilling, SAM analysis or other time-consuming activities. It's more about taking better images/close-ups of formations that were in the vicinity of Curiosity anyway.

It would have perhaps been a short drive, an adjustment of the instrument arm and some snapshots incl. a slightly increased file transfer between Earth & Mars - all that wouldn't be a matter of days or weeks, so the delay would have been essentially 'irrelevant'.

I'd even go further: what about all the other thousands & thousands of feature-less rocks that have been imaged 'close-up'? According to your argument, that would have also been a waste of time, right? Yet it was done, so I think there's more to the obvious omission of these particular 'anomalies' ...

I would agree with that, the argument was weak. Even the part of NASA's site which deals with the photographic side actually nominates names, and comments on pictures that look odd.

mars.nasa.gov...

Just to add, your OP is well constructed, and there is no need to address some of the comments made as if from a lofty position, you have already made the point of Curiosity doing some backtracking anyway. The fact that the rover is there is a mighty technical achievement, but it was paid for out of public funds, which is a two way thing, so while I may not take the actual pictures as all needing to be looked at more in depth, others may disagree, and I'm sure the same argument is going on in NASA itself even with a stated programme. So, the rover is moving on now, it's just a pity that something could not have been left behind to continue looking at any anomalies.

The Never A Straight Answer topics are quite poplar, but I have to wonder where people get the idea that NASA is obliged to share anything with anyone at all?

Maybe it would help for someone to point to some real, verifiable, written policy that states NASA is obliged to provide all, or even any, of their findings to anyone other then whom they wish to provide it to.

It might be helpful for someone to point to the edict or policy that states that NASA must provide undoctored information for everyone to examine.

It seems to me that NASA is under to obligation to do anything at all. If they want to provide low grade, grainy photos to the public, they are well within their right. If they want to withhold information, doctor information or even destroy information they are well within their right. Unless we see some policy foundation which they are not living up to, it would seem we must accept the scraps the toss out to the masses and all we are entitled to.

It seems a great amount of frustration comes on both sides of this argument, folks who feel NASA is perfect, telling all and an open source of information and those who feel NASA is more a private corporation vetting information through some secret system before they release anything at all. It might help stop the madness to actual determine, with GREAT detail, what NASA's obligations are to any of us regular folks. If they have none, they the argument changes.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
The Never A Straight Answer topics are quite poplar, but I have to wonder where people get the idea that NASA is obliged to share anything with anyone at all?

Maybe it would help for someone to point to some real, verifiable, written policy that states NASA is obliged to provide all, or even any, of their findings to anyone other then whom they wish to provide it to.

It might be helpful for someone to point to the edict or policy that states that NASA must provide undoctored information for everyone to examine.

It seems to me that NASA is under to obligation to do anything at all. If they want to provide low grade, grainy photos to the public, they are well within their right. If they want to withhold information, doctor information or even destroy information they are well within their right. Unless we see some policy foundation which they are not living up to, it would seem we must accept the scraps the toss out to the masses and all we are entitled to.

It seems a great amount of frustration comes on both sides of this argument, folks who feel NASA is perfect, telling all and an open source of information and those who feel NASA is more a private corporation vetting information through some secret system before they release anything at all. It might help stop the madness to actual determine, with GREAT detail, what NASA's obligations are to any of us regular folks. If they have none, they the argument changes.

It's people's money that pays for it all so far.

Nice thread. 3 or 4 years ago you might have had one or two NASA staff reply to a thread like this. The hell will you see that these days...scared off or sworn to secrecy? Like employers searching Facebook profiles, did the scientists back off from places like this in case they say too much?

I ask because there must be 100 scientists working on Curiosity that could spend 2 minutes to write a paragraph of their thoughts on your OP, yet it undoubtedly won't happen like that, and we return to the start of the loop that will kickstart again in 2020 when the same questions arise and the same null response is given.

For the record, I love interesting looking rocks. They should have photographed one or two of them up close at least I'm all for science but the harsh reality is I'm more likely to take the thought & image of a rock on Mars that looks like a lizard to my grave rather than the ph level of something something science. I can't imagine everyone there is a stiff, I bet they have humor and want to inspect a rock shaped like a penis for that "human" curiosity too.

Interesting point about the microbial life too. Searching for that (rather, being goddamn slow about disclosing that) will keep us delayed another 50 years on the alien subject. Yay NASA!