It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Mr Peter Dow
I agree with all your points but I did not star your posts
Originally posted by Panic2k11
since you failed to precisely point out that the intervention itself was the problem in what I see a veiled attack to the current administration.
Originally posted by Panic2k11
The problem is that the mission as sold to NATO/UN was a still born since Pakistan never ceased to be the problem.
Originally posted by Panic2k11
I can't begin to understand the US policy beyond a regional geopolitical interest (especially the mineral resources and the proximity to China and Iran) the capture of the bearded dude in the cave was clearly a bad joke only morons would accept that as a reason for the intervention, just as well as the WMD in Iraq...
Well you know what buddy? It's PAY-BACK time! Any final requests before I don't star your posts either?
The invasion of Afghanistan was a reasonable first move under the Bush Doctrine which says that the US will go after those states which sponsored the terrorism of 9/11.
The Bush Doctrine got us to first base - not so much the invasion, but the naming of "Afghanistan" as a state sponsor of terrorism. That doctrine allowed us to take action to regime change Afghanistan.
Now, you can quibble about how we did that, whether the invasion was the best method but the idea of not intervening at all, just leaving the Taliban in charge of Afghanistan would have been a bad option to take. Doing nothing was asking for another 9/11.
That problem is not a partisan problem. Both Democrats and Republicans have been slow to hold Pakistan accountable. Congressman Rand Paul I think wanted to stop financing Pakistan but both parties are very far behind the intelligence we have on Pakistan now.
Originally posted by Trueman
Now he better kick out all illegals working with fake papers and give those jobs to our veterans.
Maybe I'm asking too much from him.
India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Originally posted by Hellmutt
Pulling out from Afghanistan doesn't necessarily mean they're "coming home". Maybe they'll support Azerbaijan against Armenia/Russia? If Azerbaijan tries to retake Nagorno Karabakh by force, it'll mean a fullscale war against Armenia, and Armenia is allied with Russia...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
A re-ignition of the conflict in the next year-and-a-half could jeopardize troop withdrawal plans from Afghanistan through the corridor
Originally posted by boymonkey74
Originally posted by Trueman
Now he better kick out all illegals working with fake papers and give those jobs to our veterans.
Maybe I'm asking too much from him.
Don't worry the war machine will never stop, they will just go into the next war.
Pick any year since 1776 and there is about a 91% chance that America was involved in some war during that calendar year.
So Iam sure those soldiers will still have a war to fight.
Wikipedia: Robin Raphel
Robin Lynn Raphel (born 1947) is a career diplomat who is currently the coordinator for non-military assistance to Pakistan with the rank of ambassador.
She was appointed by President Clinton as first Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, a newly created position, where her tenure was highly controversial. Regularly throughout her career, Raphel was described as being "warm" to totalitarian and military regimes, such as the the military governments in Pakistan, and conversely "cool" towards human rights considerations.
Her tenure as Assistant Secretary for Near East and South Asian Affairs was marked by perceived hostility towards India and Afghanistan, and "warmth" towards Pakistan and the Taliban, as was extensively documented by the media.
Famously, Raphel was hostile towards the Northern Alliance including its leader Ahmed Shah Massoud who she personally pressured to yield to the Taliban.
Raphel openly promoted the complete Taliban takeover of all of Afghanistan, until the events of 9/11. Some scholars believe that her perceived "favoritism" towards Pakistan and the Taliban indirectly, if peripherally, contributed to causing 9/11.
One commonly-cited factor was her aggressive promotion of Unocal's proposal for the Afghanistan Oil Pipeline, which would have required the defeat of the Northern Alliance.
As to U.S. relations with India, the largest and most prosperous state in the region, her tenure was marked as the the "darkest chapter since the Indo-Pakistan War of 1971".
Upon her dismissal from the Assistant Secretary position by President Clinton and her transfer to the backwater post of Ambassador to Tunisia, U.S. relations with India were reported to have "improved overnight".
She also served as a member of the Iraq Reconstruction Team during the Bush administration. She retired from the state department in 2005 after 30 years of service.
She soon became a lobbyist for Pakistan at Cassidy & Associates, a Washington lobbying form that was employed by the Government of Pakistan at an annual retainer of $1.2 million.
Raphel has been the senior Vice President at the National Defense University in Washington.
The Obama Administration appointed Robin Raphel as a member of the team of the late Richard Holbrooke, the Special Representative to the Af-Pak region.
Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by WormwoodSquirm
That is a bit unfair, the problem is now how a citizen thinks or even acts it is how the governance thinks and acts or reinforces that type of mind-think. That is why people do not like America I'm sure you also have idiots in your nation, even in power too...
One think that is obvious to me is that there is a general cultural deficit in Americans but again that is also a system problem not their own, even more during the cold war from an outside to compare even a middle class American to someone in a near position behind the Iron Curtain was very telling, even in Cuba. Part of it is clearly due the cultural back ground and the cultural focus that societies have, even more than moral or political aspirations. This is also part of what creates a rift so great between other cultures that do not share at the same level of priority materialistic, often egotistical goals.
But he will most likely get to see veterans picking fruit in the sun, the party is over. As soon as that is realized people will wish to go live in Mexico/Canada and be refused entry.
Originally posted by Jakes51
Yeah, I kind of figured that this pullout would have been escalated beyond earlier projections. When I heard that the United States was attempting to negotiate with the Taliban? I was surprised, but lately this government is doing things that at one time would have been deemed unthinkable. The frequency of doing those things is quite telling.
Unorthodox has become the new orthodox! Sending arms and supplies to unvetted militant organizations like the Free Syrian Army, the opposition forces in Libya, and other areas we are not privy too has become the norm. On another note, this government supported and bolstered the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and we a seeing how that is turning out on the news. What we are witnessing before our very eyes is what bumbling foreign policy looks like. Throwing excrement at the wall and hoping its sticks.
Originally posted by Jakes51
Then lets take a look at all the top brass being funneled out for "yes men."
Obama's Purge: Military Officers Replaced Under the Commander-in-Chief
High-ranking officers in the United States military are being replaced by the Obama administration and for a number of dubious reasons.
Looks like one of those old Soviet style purges to me? Our most abled body and skilled military tacticians are being tossed to the curb. For what apparent reason? I have no idea.
Originally posted by Jakes51
This behavior by the Administration is not standard for the course in any way, shape, or form. Back on Afghanistan, an obscure article came out last month stating that the military is abandoning quite a bit of military equipment, and at a steep cost.
The military is literally throwing away $7 billion in Afghanistan
The U.S. is simply abandoning tons of equipment because shipping it home would cost too much
The decade-long Afghan war has cost the U.S. a fortune. And withdrawing from the country, which still faces regular insurgent attacks, won't be a bargain, either.
More money swallowed up by the money pit known as Afghanistan. Maybe the US can donate it to the Taliban, because what a way to show good faith during negotiations. Political recognition, and free military equipment. I am just joking! However, the sarcasm of late is proving to look more like reality. Epic facepalm! Or lets make a mental picture of our President making the troll face? I just need to hide my face in my hands!
Originally posted by EnoughAlready10
Isn't the real issue that were at war against the Taliban, which is a non-defined portion of the population, rather than with all of Afghanistan? You can’t compare this war to WWII, or the Nazis. It’s not like you can look at a crowd and pick out the enemy by the color of their shirt. Not to mention there is no real way to judge the success of our goals. Had we entered Afghanistan with the objective of conquer and eradicate the population in a defined boundary we could have easily define ‘victory’, but since our objective was as vague as defining our enemy, its next to impossible to achieve victory.
This lack of a victory is not the fault of the generals, but rather the fault of the policies we have towards ‘war’. I’m sure the generals would have had no issue conducting a massive shock and awe campaign complete with carpet bombings followed by air strikes of all key military and civilian infrastructures. Follow this up with ground forces (with massive air and artillery support) to clean up the towns one by one, purging them of any remaining populations. Then strip them of all resources and claim the land for the US. However when we have a ‘promote democracy’ policy instead of a conquer and occupy policy we limit ourselves in what methods we use.
The first priority for Coalition forces was the destruction of Iraq's Air Force and anti-aircraft facilities. The sorties were launched mostly from Saudi Arabia and the six Coalition carrier battle groups (CVBG) in the Persian Gulf and Red Sea.
The next Coalition targets were command and communication facilities. Saddam Hussein had closely micromanaged Iraqi forces in the Iran–Iraq War, and initiative at lower levels was discouraged. Coalition planners hoped that Iraqi resistance would quickly collapse if deprived of command and control.
The air campaign's third and largest phase targeted military targets throughout Iraq and Kuwait: Scud missile launchers, weapons research facilities, and naval forces. About one-third of the Coalition's air power was devoted to attacking Scuds, some of which were on trucks and therefore difficult to locate. U.S. and British special operations forces had been covertly inserted into western Iraq to aid in the search and destruction of Scuds.
Shortly afterwards, the U.S. VII Corps, in full strength and spearheaded by the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment, launched an armored attack into Iraq early on 24 February, just to the west of Kuwait, taking Iraqi forces by surprise. Simultaneously, the U.S. XVIII Airborne Corps launched a sweeping “left-hook” attack across southern Iraq's largely undefended desert, led by the U.S. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment and the 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized). This movement's left flank was protected by France's 6th Light Armoured Division Daguet.
The movement's right flank was protected by the United Kingdom's 1st Armoured Division. Once the allies had penetrated deep into Iraqi territory, they turned eastward, launching a flank attack against the elite Republican Guard before it could escape.
The Iraqis suffered massive losses and lost dozens of tanks and vehicles, while U.S. casualties were comparatively low, with a single Bradley knocked out. Coalition forces pressed another ten kilometers into Iraqi territory, and captured their objective within three hours. They took 500 prisoners and inflicted heavy losses, defeating Iraq's 26th Infantry Division. Meanwhile, British forces attacked Iraq's Medina Division and a major Republican Guard logistics base. In nearly two days of some of the war's most intense fighting, the British destroyed 40 enemy tanks and captured a division commander.
The Coalition's advance was much swifter than U.S. generals had expected. On 26 February, Iraqi troops began retreating from Kuwait, .. A long convoy of retreating Iraqi troops formed along the main Iraq-Kuwait highway. Although they were retreating, this convoy was bombed so extensively by Coalition air forces that it came to be known as the Highway of Death. Hundreds of Iraqi troops were killed. American, British, and French forces continued to pursue retreating Iraqi forces over the border and back into Iraq, eventually moving to within 150 miles (240 km) of Baghdad before withdrawing back to Iraq's border with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
One hundred hours after the ground campaign started, on 28 February, President Bush declared a ceasefire, and he also declared that Kuwait had been liberated.
Originally posted by Mr Peter Dow
This is what a brilliant Secretary of State looks like, in my opinion.
Originally posted by supremecommander
Originally posted by xuenchen
This sounds suspiciously like positioning for a contractor takeover.
The U.S. 'military' involvement may have achieved a goal of defending Afghanistan's main industry.
The contractors may be bidding for all we know.
Then send the mercs over there to die, and let our troops come home.
Originally posted by Mr Peter Dow
It doesn't sound from the reports of that Obama / Karzai video-conference that they were discussing which contractor offers the best quote and will do the best job. Sounds like they had more profound disagreements.
As for me, no, I'm a political and military writer these days, never held nor offered a military contract in my life, only ever worked as a college lecturer.
Also winning this war in very short order is more than a purely mercenary job that needs doing here.
For example, there are ways to turn the screw on the Taliban's masters (that would be the Pakistani military) that don't involve firing a shot. Like freezing all aid money and IMF bailouts to Pakistan, (nothing helps quite as much as not paying the enemy's war costs as well as your own).
Then there's seizing or taking out Pakistani satellite TV. That takes more equipment and legal authority than the private sector mercenaries have at their disposal.
Then there is bombing Pakistan with heavy air power and missiles. Again the private sector does not have enough air power to be useful against Pakistan.
Pakistan is a modern 21st Century military power with nuclear weapons and no private mercenary contractor can stand up against Pakistan. Fact.
We need to use official NATO forces and national and international governments and their organisations to win this but with new help from smarter people like myself to add needed brain-power to current organisations.
I don't suppose they'd ask me since I've never been in the military but if needed I'd volunteer to do the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe (DSACEUR) of NATO job (that's the highest rank in NATO open to a Briton like myself).
As well, I'd like Condoleezza Rice as my boss, so she could be appointed as the new Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR).
Now, if our governments can see their way to appointing Condi and me to run this war, we'll get you a complete victory in no time, honest.