The Purest form of Christianity, was Eastern Orthodoxy, the Desert Fathers, Monks, Hermits, & Mystic

Originally posted by RobSch5
reply to post by dominicus

 

Well, Christianity is finally based on the belief that Christ died on the cross for the sins of all who accept him follow him, and on his resurrection.

1. Christians originally never called themselves "Christians." It was name given by outsiders. The original name was "Followers of the Way." Jesus was the Blueprint and came to show the way back to God.
2. If you think, simply "believing" the things you spoke of, will "save you," then there are some things you have to consider:

Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]” 4

“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

"Born Again" is ego Death. The Ego dies and all that's left is Pure Awareness and Soul. It is a direct experience beyond beliefs. A belief is not the same thing as the real thing. Atheists don't believe there is a God, but that doesn't change the fact that God exists. A Christian can believe everything in the Bible, but those "beliefs" are not the same thing as the actual events that have come and gone.

OF course then you can argue about the Thief, who told Jesus he believes that Jesus is who he says he is, and Jesus answered that tonight he will join him in the Kingdom of Heaven. Of course, one can argue that it was a last minute plea, and JEsus was Graceful/Loving/Forgiving enough to bless him entrance into Heaven. You can also argue that the Thief was "geniune," whereas many last minute please can be false and out of fear, but that's enough firepower for a whole separate thread.

If you read the Desert Fathers, those who reached Union/Enlightenment, would give different answers to the young seekers of God who came to them and asked them, "what must I do to gain salvation." You'd have to dip into the Philokalia for that one

This is something no mystic can experience, it is something he as a Christian just has to believe and this belief bounds him in a way mystics of other traditions are not bound. It limits the pure unknowing.

Mystics of all traditions start with "beliefs." Belief that they exist, Belief that the path they are choosing is the best, Belief that salvation is possible by that path, and son on. Beliefs ad infinitum.

On the Christian path, as a Christian Mystic who gets the Holy Spirit as a direct experience, you are eventually stripped of all beliefs and go beyond/transcend all beliefs, by directly experiencing the Holy Spirit and God.

It's like me asking you: Would you rather read a book about what it's like to have a million dollars? Or actually experience directly what it's like to have a million dollars.

Same deal with God. Experiencing God directly, has nothing to do with beliefs. Beliefs are only used in the beginning on the Christian path, eventually you drop them and experience God directly, something the Bible discusses and says that at that point, all the Laws of the NT will be living law directly written on your heart.

If you enter Union with God in the heart, that's where morals, ethics, selflessness, Chrsithood, Love, Bliss, Nonjudgment is.

Whereas if you remain a mere believer, going to Church on Sundays, and do not experience the Spirit (i.e. Ego Death), then soon as you leave Church, you're right back to square one, a slave of the ego and the impulses of the body (called the Carnal/Adamic mind in the Bible)

The only possible way to transcend the ego/body, is through the Holy Spirit and Union with God. If you don't get that, which God freely gives to all those who discover it within, then you will remain a slave of ego/animal body

Have you heard of Shaktipat in eastern religions?

Yes. It's considered a Grace in various paths. One of Kundalini that comes from the bottom of the Spine and up to the Head. The Holy Spirit, however, enters the head, goes down to the spine, and various Christian Saints describe both the Holy Spirit and Kundalini experience.

In Hinduism, they consider Christianity to be the Path of Bhakti(Love), where you fall in Love with the Guru (Jesus), and God, and that Love triggers the opening of the Heart, Union, Bliss, Kundalini, and Ego Death. Sounds exactly what I went through when I was strictly a Christian following the examples of Christ, and all those things happened to me as well.

To this day, I have what feels like electricity flowing through various channels in my Body, all after getting Baptised and getting the Holy Spirit.

So, Dominicus, any updates??

IsidoreOfSeville
So, Dominicus, any updates??

yes, quite a big update!!!!

Someone in India corroborated to me what I knew all along and what this thread was all about.

I've been to Eastern Orthodox Monasteries and have interviews with Monks on mp3 that speak of Enlightenment, The Inner light, leaving the body, and Union/Oneness amongst other things......can post if you like.

My big surprise was the India fellow mentioned "new age" which was a bit off putting for me and a surprise.

Take it however you want. I've nothing to hide, just things that I have figured out myself in the past that are all synchronizing, plus I'm not preaching or telling people to seek Christ or go to hell.... though my original awakening was via Christianity, I'm a Universalist and even at one point met a Sufi woman who also had Union with God as well.......

Assumptions make an arse out of u & me. Presume the unpredictable is a better option

reply to post by dominicus


Is there a difference between belief & faith?
Faith, and the things that it can acomplish, seem to be a central theme in the bible.

reply to post by dominicus

Originally posted by dominicus
I've been to Eastern Orthodox Monasteries and have interviews with Monks on mp3 that speak of Enlightenment, The Inner light, leaving the body, and Union/Oneness amongst other things......can post if you like.

My journey to receiving the Holy Spirit was via Christianity too, although my journey seems to very different from most others…very unique in itself, including current beliefs etc…

Anyway, I’d be interested in hearing those mp3 interviews…if you could post them, that would be awesome…

- JC

the purest of roots will lie in the oldest soil. (or sand, as the case may be)

but yes. the way of the ancients is the way, hermeticism is an honest path.

walk in the light and all will be as it must.

LafingWithTears
reply to post by dominicus

 

Is there a difference between belief & faith?
Faith, and the things that it can accomplish, seem to be a central theme in the bible.

Yes there is a difference. Belief is belief. You can believe that unicorns live on rainbows, but if in reality there are no unicorns, then your belief is void. Just like a large portion of Western Christians believe Christianity to be a certain way, without spiritual awakening and Enlightenment, are creating a reality and a life without these things. Whereas those who believe that there is a Christian Enlightenment, are more prone to have the access and awakenings towards that.

I never believed that awakening & enlightenment was real or could happen to me, and after Baptism, even though I didn't believe in these things, they still began to happen in me

Beliefs aren't even real anyway. They are just thoughts and have nothing to do with reality. Reality itself is naked and prior to any belief. As is God/Source/Infinity....which IS, prior to belief, and can be experienced.

I have found in my Christian Mystic Path, undergoing a 3 year dark night of the Soul, where I was stripped of all beliefs, so my perception now is very pure & nonjudgmental. Of course there are still some old habits that arise, but they are seen through. This Clean/Clear perception without belief was the same as Jesus preaching to be like the CHildren, who are simply aware, filled with awe & wonder, constantly asking questions and probing into the nature of reality/existence. Its a stage every child goes through and then is taught, by the worldly system to just shut up and learn what the books say.

Well like a child, we should be probing and asking ourselves continuosyly. Why do I sin? What is the cause of it? What is prior to thought? Who am I? Who am I when I am not thinking or prior to thoughts? What is the source of thoughts? Where does love come from in me? etc etc, probing, going within, deep sea diving, and eventually within you, there is a point, a spark, a Soul that can be found and accessed.

Faith is whole entire different matter. With Faith I have changed the weather, manifested a Soul mate into my life, and since putting God/Soul first and having Faith that he will guide me into fruition of Enlightenment, Service to others, and experiencing the deepest possible depths of God that exist for a human/soul....all these things have been manifesting.

So Faith can be used to manifest and change reality. On a low level, beginner Christians use Faith that God/Christ/Spirit exist. This the CHristians who are on Milk.

The Meat is when you get the Holy Spirit, which Kills your ego and gives you access to the Spiritual realms, the heart opens, bliss pours out, and I can go on and on about the direct experiences. All that to say, that when you get the direct experiences, you then KNOW that God/Christ/Spirit are real and are no longer operating on belief/faith, but are operating on knowing/trusting.

Also when I was in India and I met this Mountain dwelling Enlightened Master who said one of the additional aspects of enlightenment is freedom to leave the body at will and traverse the afterlife, globe, space, etc. I specifically asked him can he see who else is Enlightened and if Christianity is legit towards Enlightenment, if there are Enlightened Christians. He then mentioned how those who are Enlightened give off a powerful light that can be seen from space and felt, and that its mostly in the Monasteries of various sorts where there are older monks who are fully Enlightened as well. It was a directed question with a specific directed answer

reply to post by dominicus


Apologies for the necromancy, but you were the first person I thought of when I read this article. Looks as if it's right up your alley and I think, from what I've read in this post, it speaks of one aspect you've mentioned before: spirituality.

Mysticism, Monasticism, and the New Evangelization

Cheers!

God is going to unite Christianity...soon...says Heaven. First the Orthodox split, then the Protestants rejected the faith.

We all agree, God wants us all to believe the same, He can accomplish this, show the world dramatically, free will is still involved.

excerpt about the unity coming....


Feb 8, 2010


Vision to littlest of servants March 15, 2009



.... I received the following vision. I saw sheep grazing on a green pasture. I then saw some of the sheep leave and next I saw that those sheep that had left were now grazing on barren ground with little to eat.


I then saw the Shepard who, knowing that some of the sheep had left, started to call out to them to come home were there was plenty to eat and the pastures were green. But the runaway sheep even though they heard the Shepherd calling them refused to go back.


The Shepherd continued to call and call them and they continued to refuse the call of the Shepherd even though there was barely enough to eat on the barren ground they were on.


JESUS then spoke to me and told me the sheep that were grazing together on the green very beautiful pasture were members of HIS EARLY CHURCH, when all belonged to ONE CHURCH, ONE BODY, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF ROME.


HE then told me that the sheep that had left were the ones who left the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH to form their own chuches. The Shepherd that was calling to them to come back was the POPE who JESUS told me was the ONE TRUE SHEPHERD FOR ALL CHRISTIANS.


The barren ground that the sheep that had left were grazing on represented the lack of graces for those who had left the CATHOLIC CHURCH.


I then saw a large group of sheep and they were gathered together right near the green pasture yet still on the pasture with barren ground.


JESUS spoke again and told me that these sheep represented the ORTHODOX CHURCHES WHO ARE NEAR UNITY WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.


I then saw some sheep and they were still far away ignoring the call of the Shepherd and still on ground that was almost totally barren.

JESUS spoke again and told me that these sheep represented the PROTESTANTS who HE WOULD HAVE TO PERSONALLY GO AND GET TO BRING THEM BACK TO THE FOLD, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.


HE THEN TOLD ME THAT HIS BODY, HIS CHURCH WOULD BECOME ONE AGAIN AS THE FATHER AND HE ARE ONE.

Archives - Yahoo Groups - Seers 2

One of the tenants of that Schism was: Catholicism said that you read the Bible and remain a Christian using only Logic and reason. E.O. said that you only use logic/reason for a short while, then once indwelled with the Holy Spirit, you are imbued with Higher Spiritual Faculties such as Transcendence, Non-Judgmental Love, Timelessness, Ego-Death, and direct experiences of God ...which give you a better understanding of the Bible than mere logic/reason (which is of Man).

I'd like to see some citation on this. Catholics preach a sanctification process based on faith in God's grace and partaking of the sacraments.

I also have trouble believing people were using words like "transcendence" and "ego death" in the year 1054.

We have our mystics too-have you heard of the Jesuits?

reply to post by Snsoc

I'd like to see some citation on this. Catholics preach a sanctification process based on faith in God's grace and partaking of the sacraments.

look up the great schism of 1054 on google and read into it a bit. Wiki might have this listed as well. Its there, but I'm at a retreat right now so don't have the free time to get it myself. Catholicism is hypocrisy - for they preach sanctification, and yet "you are a sinner, are not Christ, and will never reach sanctification. Basically they teach to be like CHrist, but no one ever can reach Christhood. The Mystics who did reach sanctification and claimed to be "One with the Father" like Jesus, were excommunicated, thrown in prisons, court dates, or killed.

I also have trouble believing people were using words like "transcendence" and "ego death" in the year 1054.

They were using other words to represent those. Transcendence was more like ineffable immanence and ego death was more like rebirth through grace, or die to the self and take up thy cross, or Not I, but Christ in me.

We have our mystics too-have you heard of the Jesuits?

YEs, I heard of Jesuits but so what? The new Christian Mysticism that's coming out, as can be read in IsidoreOfSeville great article 3-4 posts up, is speaking of the re-emergence of a loose knit decentralized Christian Mysticism (though they do weigh heavy on balancing it with Abbott's as guides). I've been on ATS about 8 years and have posts going back to 2006 saying that only Christian Mysticism will survive. Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc...will all die out and people are leaving in droves because the priests and leaders are basically spiritually dead.... they are failing to keep up with pertinent philosophies, say meditation is of the devil (Yet Christ said that treasures & the Kingdom of Heaven was within), and are basically stagnated models of old.

The New Mystics gather in homes, meditate together, study and compare other paths, they openly discuss gnosticism, and eventually through Grace/baptism, they awaken Mystically. Once that Mystical Grace awakens you, from that point on you are a Christian Mystic for life. Its a decentralized, life is my church, the world is my pew, street teacher, selfless lover of others, divine love/bliss from the heart, ego dying and being replaced by Christ's essence.

Even Gospel of Thomas has a very Zen Like Nondual/Advaita flavor to it, and shows that Christ new of deeper philosophies if you consider that a legit gospel. I do. It's the oldest of the existing NT found antiquity gospels, and for those deep thinkers who have a hard time with surrender, Thomas is perfect!!!!

I've been witnessing this more and more and openly teach Christian Mysticism, and have people from all over the world contacting me for lessons and even Buddhists have been coming to me to access Christ Consciousness and Agape Love.....

This stuff is for real and is not owned by any denomination.....