Plants and Consciousness: Do Plants Think?

Hi peeps..

Came across this article yesterday. I am always interested in things like this. I find it all quite incredible. Seemingly plants are somewhat conscious and aware and are able to see, feel, smell and even remember..

Scientist Daniel Chamovitz unveils the surprising world of plants that see, feel, smell—and remember.

How aware are plants? This is the central question behind a fascinating new book, “What a Plant Knows,” by Daniel Chamovitz, director of the Manna Center for Plant Biosciences at Tel Aviv University.

A plant, he argues, can see, smell and feel. It can mount a defense when under siege, and warn its neighbors of trouble on the way. A plant can even be said to have a memory. But does this mean that plants think — or that one can speak of a “neuroscience” of the flower?

Chamovitz answered questions from Mind Matters editor Gareth Cook.

3. You say that plants have a sense of smell?
Sure. But to answer this we have to define for ourselves what “smell” is. When we smell something, we sense a volatile chemical that’s dissolved in the air, and then react in someway to this smell.
...
When one fruit starts to ripen, it releases this hormone which is called ethylene, which is sensed by neighboring fruits, until entire trees and groves ripen more or less in synchrony.

4. Do plants communicate with each other?
At a basic level, yes. But I guess it centers around how you define communication. There is no doubt that plants respond to cues from other plants. For example, if a maple tree is attacked by bugs, it releases a pheromone into the air that is picked up by the neighboring trees. This induces the receiving trees to start making chemicals that will help it fight off the impending bug attack. So on the face of it, this is definitely communication.

Do plants have a memory?
Plants definitely have several different forms of memory, just like people do. They have short term memory, immune memory and even transgenerational memory! I know this is a hard concept to grasp for some people, but if memory entails forming the memory (encoding information), retaining the memory (storing information), and recalling the memory (retrieving information), then plants definitely remember. For example a Venus Fly Trap needs to have two of the hairs on its leaves touched by a bug in order to shut, so it remembers that the first one has been touched. But this only lasts about 20 seconds, and then it forgets.

For full questions and answers please read full article.

Article: ~
www.themindunleashed.org...

Original Source: ~
www.scientificamerican.com...

Several modern-day research groups are following up on this line of research: ~
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...



Certainly an interesting and thought provoking read. I am aware that there will be some who think it utter rubbish. But I do not think it is. Plants and animals alike are so much more than just some grass or a dumb sheep. The way they act to survive is fascinating. Even now many people are of the opinion that we (humans) are the only sophisticated, conscious and aware life forms on the planet... Now that is rubbish.

I do not believe that plants can think like we do. But they certainly do think to a degree. This is shown by their active and problem-solving behaviour.

And seemingly scientists now believe that plants can do Maths and Quantum Physics...

Plants 'do maths' to control overnight food supplies
Plants have a built-in capacity to do maths, which helps them regulate food reserves at night, research suggests. UK scientists say they were "amazed" to find an example of such a sophisticated arithmetic calculation in biology.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Plants 'seen doing quantum physics'
The idea that plants make use of quantum physics to harvest light more efficiently has received a boost.

Plants gather packets of light called photons, shuttling them deep into their cells where their energy is converted with extraordinary efficiency.

A report in Science journal adds weight to the idea that an effect called a "coherence" helps determine the most efficient path for the photons.

Experts have called the work "a nice proof" of some contentious ideas.

www.bbc.co.uk...

So next time you go to water your house plant. Why not sit and have a chat with it. You might be surprised what you get back.....

Peace
Fluff

wow this reminds me of a movie that plant attacked the man with an air that causes who are not in the groups of committed suicide .. I forget the movie, do you know the movie is?? ahh .. scary .. good post op

Very interesting. Seems like we are on the verge of stepping outside our own ignorance in this regard. There has always been something amazing about time lapse footage of plants that hint at something more then what we already know. The Dodder vine has many of these characteristics.

en.wikipedia.org...

A report published in Science in 2006 demonstrated that dodder use airborne volatile organic compound cues to locate their host plants. Seedlings of Cuscuta pentagona exhibit positive growth responses to volatiles released by tomato and other species of host plants

reply to post by fluff007


Hi Fluff

If this interests you and you haven't already read them I can highly recommend "Supernature" by Lyall Watson and "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tomkins and Christopher Bird. Very interesting and informative!

Thanks for the thread! Excellent!

s+f

reply to post by cheesy


I think I know the movie you are talking about but I do not think I have watched it. Is it The Happening...?

reply to post by StrangeTimez


Yes maybe we are finally! Chamovitz also talks about the Dodder plant.
The minute amounts of chemicals in the air released by neighbouring plants the Dodder picks up and even decides to choose the one it finds the tastiest..!
Truly incredible..

reply to post by wiser3


Hi there wiser3. Thank you for your reply and recommendations..! I shall see if I can get them on ebay or amazon.

Originally posted by fluff007
Certainly an interesting and thought provoking read.

It is interesting at least.

I am aware that there will be some who think it utter rubbish.

Of course.

But I do not think it is.

It isn't.

Plants and animals alike are so much more than just some grass or a dumb sheep.

Well, grass is grass and sheep are sheep.

The way they act to survive is fascinating.

Quite.

Even now many people are of the opinion that we (humans) are the only sophisticated, conscious and aware life forms on the planet... Now that is rubbish.

It is not rubbish. It would be idiotic not to say that the mechanics of organic life is sophisticated [it cannot be in any other way], however, when it comes to consciousness and awareness when talking about grass or flowers is a stretch.
Everything that was described in your quotes are simple concepts that can be built into machines, the acts do not require any thought, or intelligence.

I do not believe that plants can think like we do.

Good.

But they certainly do think to a degree.

No.

This is shown by their active and problem-solving behaviour.

Computers do that too, but computers do not think.

And seemingly scientists now believe that plants can do Maths and Quantum Physics...

No they don't. It was a ridiculous twist on the fact that nature works the way it works, and we can explain it in terms of math and Quantum Physics. It was a statement for popular science, nothing more.

Again, it's the same thing as when talking about a computer.

reply to post by Nevertheless


Thank you for your reply...

It is not rubbish. It would be idiotic not to say that the mechanics of organic life is sophisticated [it cannot be in any other way], however, when it comes to consciousness and awareness when talking about grass or flowers is a stretch.

Everything that was described in your quotes are simple concepts that can be built into machines, the acts do not require any thought, or intelligence.

I think they do require a form of thought and intelligence.

Thought generally refers to any mental or intellectual activity involving an individual's subjective consciousness. It can refer either to the act of thinking or the resulting ideas or arrangements of ideas.

en.wikipedia.org...

Intelligence has been defined in many different ways including, but not limited to, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, reasoning, learning, having emotional knowledge, retaining, planning, and problem solving.

en.wikipedia.org...

Plants can mount a defense when under siege and warn its neighbours of trouble on the way. How is that not a form of thought or intelligence... Plants can communicate with one another. They learn to adapt. They store knowledge from previous generations. Humans communicate with one another. We learn to adapt. We have knowledge from previous generations...

So to you recalling a memory (retrieving information) is not 'thinking'...? To me that is thinking. If you encounter a problem that is a possible threat to your life you try and retrieve what information you have on solutions to deal with the situation. Is that not thinking...?
Because humans, plants and animals all do that.

And when you said no to mine saying that I believe that plants certainly think to a degree. Do you have any evidence that shows plants do not think in any way.

Computers do that too, but computers do not think.

There are computers and robots that can now learn, think and communicate with each other. I know a good video of two robots which I think were built by the Japanese and they have begun developing their own language and no one knows what they are saying to each other... I will find the video and links for you....

Originally posted by fluff007
Plants can mount a defense when under siege and warn its neighbours of trouble on the way.
How is that not a form of thought or intelligence...

This works without any thought at all.
It was explained quite well in the quotes that you provided earlier.
If you build a machine that releases chemicals when abused, and if that machine (or other instances of it) detect that chemical, it reacts in a defensive manner.
This does not require any thought and can be built without any intelligence.

And through evolution, it can be seen how this machine became as finely tuned as it did.

So to you recalling a memory (retrieving information) is not 'thinking'...?

Yes, it is possible to build completely mechanical gadgets with "memory".. I wouldn't call them to be intelligent and thinking. I'd call them purely mechanical devices that do, what would be to us, clever, things.

To me that is thinking.

And to me it's not, for the above reason.
It would be thinking to reason how to solve a problem like above and build the machine.
Evolution coming to that point is not thinking, nor is the product thereof.

If you encounter a problem that is a possible threat to your life you try and retrieve what information you have on solutions to deal with the situation. Is that not thinking...?

To "retrieve what information you have [...] to deal with the situation", then no.
But if you truly construct a solution to a problem by reason and not brute force, then yes.

Because humans, plants and animals all do that.

Animals do that. I'm yet to see any plant to do so. And I really don't know how they could.

And when you said no to mine saying that I believe that plants certainly think to a degree. Do you have any evidence that shows plants do not think in any way.

I'm sorry, but I cannot give you any evidence on why there isn't a pink elephant-ghost living under your left thumbnail either.
It is not possible to give evidence on things that do not exist one direction or the other for the simple fact that they do not exist. You can't work on something that doesn't exist.

Let's make it easier instead: Give me proof that plants do think in any way.

If my earlier answers weren't sufficient enough, please do say so. Here or PM.

There are computers and robots that can now learn, think and communicate with each other. I know a good video of two robots which I think were built by the Japanese and they have begun developing their own language and no one knows what they are saying to each other... I will find the video and links for you....

I know a fair share of AI and unfortunately it is called just that, Artificial. It's an interesting topic regardless, I wouldn't mind watching the videos.

Bumping the thread and putting it in MyATS. This looks interesting, and right up my alley.

Yes they "think", but not with a physical brain. Thats whats so hard for some people to grasp; that thought, intelligence, awareness, etc can occur without a brain.

They covered this topic in yesterday's episode of Through the Wormhole. It was fascinating to know that they are able to do such things such as warn other plants and trees around them and also to release certain gases that call upon other predators when they are being attacked by a certain kind of insect themselves. Truly fascinating stuff