32 Million Data Collection Points in San Diego Alone...The "Truth" is Coming Out

reply to post by kaylaluv


except...


What if the purpose of those cameras is to identify people engaged in peaceful protest for future retaliation by the authorities? That doesn't bother you?

In a fascist corporate environment it's about identification, control and nulification; enforced conformity ....not protection

reply to post by TheSpanishArcher

I can understand where you're coming from.....too many people have had their aggression subplanted with pacificity...."I -w-i-l-l c-o-m-p-l-y"......

Originally posted by olaru12
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

except...


What if the purpose of those cameras is to identify people engaged in peaceful protest for future retaliation by the authorities? That doesn't bother you?

In a fascist corporate environment it's about identification, control and nulification; enforced conformity ....not protection

edit on 18-6-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

The media could also be there taking pictures and video at the peaceful protest. The government could easily identify people based on that. What's to stop government agents from showing up at the peaceful protest in person to monitor who is there? I just don't think cameras set up in public places takes away anyone's freedoms or rights. It's a "public" place, meaning the opposite of private. Cameras set up in private places (like bathroom stalls) is a bad thing, IMO.

reply to post by kaylaluv


It has nothing to do with the video cameras.

It is how they are using the information.

Seriously, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

The sheer paranoid ridiculous amount of information collected.

I live here. I have a precious child. I will be responsible for her safety.

But if your coming at me with "if you have nothing to hide" argument.

That's just a nonstarter for me...

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

It has nothing to do with the video cameras.

It is how they are using the information.

Seriously, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

The sheer paranoid ridiculous amount of information collected.

I live here. I have a precious child. I will be responsible for her safety.

But if your coming at me with "if you have nothing to hide" argument.

That's just a nonstarter for me...

Oooookay. How are they using the information? Obviously I can't figure out what YOU are trying to say. Seems to me that they are using the information to catch criminals, because they can't always be there in person to catch them. Sometimes, they ARE there in person to catch them - do you have a problem with that? Do you have a problem with a policeman hanging around the public park, to make sure someone doesn't break the law? If not, then consider the camera simply another policeman. If you DO have a problem with a policeman hanging around the public park -- then you are more paranoid than I thought. Or else, you are mad because you won't be able to break some law without getting caught.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

It has nothing to do with the video cameras.

It is how they are using the information.

Seriously, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

The sheer paranoid ridiculous amount of information collected.

I live here. I have a precious child. I will be responsible for her safety.

But if your coming at me with "if you have nothing to hide" argument.

That's just a nonstarter for me...

Oooookay. How are they using the information? Obviously I can't figure out what YOU are trying to say. Seems to me that they are using the information to catch criminals, because they can't always be there in person to catch them. Sometimes, they ARE there in person to catch them - do you have a problem with that? Do you have a problem with a policeman hanging around the public park, to make sure someone doesn't break the law? If not, then consider the camera simply another policeman. If you DO have a problem with a policeman hanging around the public park -- then you are more paranoid than I thought. Or else, you are mad because you won't be able to break some law without getting caught.

Your argument is essentially that "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." The problem with this is that it is almost always abused at some point (like we're seeing with the NSA and IRS).

We recently did away with stop-light cameras here in San Diego. The problem wasn't that de facto red-light runners were getting ticketed, it was that people legally turning right on red were getting these tickets to the tune of about $480!! Some people naively paid the tickets, others took them to court where they found that the traffic footage wasn't being reviewed by an officer - they were just signing off on them without looking at the circumstances of the driver.....A clear violation of the Bill of Rights.

NEVER trust the Govt. to do the right thing. There are good people in the Govt. but the problem isn't with the people, it's with the machine.

reply to post by kaylaluv

The data trove had 32 million data points as of January, with 2 million records added each month.

We are not talking about a camera in the park.

“They (the government) may collect it under the guise of stopping child molesters or catching terrorists or looking for stolen cars,” Robertson said. “It’s always a good premise, but ultimately when they have this data they can’t help but seem to use it for bad purposes, and I think that’s a real concern, and we’re seeing that exactly happen right now with the IRS and the NSA.”

There is real potential for misuse...Why would a Free Person allow this encroachment?

The data are kept secure and monitored for potential abuse by police, Sgt. Grube said. But civil liberties groups are pushing for disclosure of the data and limits on how long it can be retained. They worry the information could be used in inappropriate ways to figure out who law-abiding residents are associating with, if they’re frequenting a cancer clinic or a strip club, even what time they come home from work.

I don't want to be profiled by tiny bits of data. Here is one possibility:

Your neighbor was murdered. Somebody used bleach to clean up the mess.

You just bought bleach yesterday. To save a few dollars you give them your savings card.

You had a minor argument over a parking space with that neighbor.

The park camera witnessed your gesticulations.

The circumstantial case is building. Wait they see that you got your prescription filled.

That medication can be associated with violent mood swings...Time to lawyer up.

My father was a Police Officer. It's not the guys on the street I fear. They are also victims.

Well my finger is getting tired...But really my point is it's none of there damn business.

I was born Free....I will jealously protect my rights. I like the camera in the park.

I don't like being cyber-profiled...

Originally posted by wills120


Your argument is essentially that "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." The problem with this is that it is almost always abused at some point (like we're seeing with the NSA and IRS).

We recently did away with stop-light cameras here in San Diego. The problem wasn't that de facto red-light runners were getting ticketed, it was that people legally turning right on red were getting these tickets to the tune of about $480!! Some people naively paid the tickets, others took them to court where they found that the traffic footage wasn't being reviewed by an officer - they were just signing off on them without looking at the circumstances of the driver.....A clear violation of the Bill of Rights.

NEVER trust the Govt. to do the right thing. There are good people in the Govt. but the problem isn't with the people, it's with the machine.

Cameras in public places isn't the same thing as IRS and NSA. Again, it's a PUBLIC place.

The example you give was not a problem with the cameras. It was a problem with the procedures in place. So, fix the procedures, and the cameras can go back to being helpful and not hurtful. Sometimes cops make mistakes and pull someone over who wasn't really breaking any law. We don't get rid of all cops do we? We make sure procedures are in place to avoid the mistakes.

You don't have to trust the government to do the right thing. You make sure to elect officials who make fair laws. If they don't, get rid of them. And its our job as citizens to make sure proper procedures are followed. Make sure the laws are fair and proper procedures are followed, and public cameras won't be a problem. As in your example, when people pointed out the flaws in the system, they weren't just ignored.

I for one, am happy to see cameras in public places. People who might do harm to me in an empty public parking lot will think twice about it if they know a camera is on them. I'm good with that. And it's cheaper than hiring a massive police force - enough to have several cops at every public place 24/7.

Originally posted by whyamIhere


I don't want to be profiled by tiny bits of data. Here is one possibility:

Your neighbor was murdered. Somebody used bleach to clean up the mess.

You just bought bleach yesterday. To save a few dollars you give them your savings card.

You had a minor argument over a parking space with that neighbor.

The park camera witnessed your gesticulations.

The circumstantial case is building. Wait they see that you got your prescription filled.

That medication can be associated with violent mood swings...Time to lawyer up.

My father was a Police Officer. It's not the guys on the street I fear. They are also victims.

Well my finger is getting tired...But really my point is it's none of there damn business.

I was born Free....I will jealously protect my rights. I like the camera in the park.

I don't like being cyber-profiled...

edit on 18-6-2013 by whyamIhere because: tired finger

But, geez - that could all happen without public cameras. Circumstantial cases are built all the time, without public cameras. What if, in that same scenario, a public camera caught the real killer in the act with your neighbor? You are free, thanks to that public camera.

Now we are getting somewhere...

Except, you went right back to the camera.

I am more than willing to give you the camera in the park.

Why do they need to know what we eat or our medical records.

The amount of data is just unbelievable. Why the paranoia?

Our Rights are a funny thing. If you take away one you could end up losing them all.

We have had zero terrorist activity around here. No stolen cars. Hardly any crime.

A credit to our Police...Not the camera. Video can be very subjective. Ever see a UFO video?

Technology is getting way ahead of existing laws.

Thank you for politely disagreeing. That what makes ATS great...

Originally posted by TheSpanishArcher
I've been telling people this was happening for years. Obviously, I had no hard proof. Pretty much everyone has ignored me. So now I sit, basically friendless and the few I do have are blithering fools, getting old and decrepit, but I can say "HA! I was RIGHT!"

Little consolation that is. The truth has made me a social leper. I don't even attempt to talk to people anymore. Why bother?

I hope there is a special level of hell for these A******* who perpetrate this Godforsaken system, lawmakers, pigs, court officials, lawyers, all of them involved in turning America into a police state.

ETA: Forgot to add this from the article. Lovely sentiments, so heartwarming.

The San Diego Police Department finds the technology so helpful for policing that it wants to add more.

Two million pieces of data each month and yet it's not enough. Go figure.

edit on 6/18/2013 by TheSpanishArcher because: (no reason given)

Wow you sound just like us! we also saw the cameras and unknown devices being installed here, everyone thinks your nuts for not just figuring it is some helpful thing, you know 'to keep us safe'.

Originally posted by bigyin
The UK has had ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) for years. Every time your travel along main routes you are being tracked. That together with tracking your mobile phone whereabouts gives the authorities a clear picture of where you have been should they choose to investigate you.

The strange thing to me, is we have had back roads and every odd route also having equipment installed way out here in the middle of nowhere. What's up with that i wonder.

reply to post by wills120

Your argument is essentially that "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." The problem with this is that it is almost always abused at some point (like we're seeing with the NSA and IRS). We recently did away with stop-light cameras here in San Diego. The problem wasn't that de facto red-light runners were getting ticketed, it was that people legally turning right on red were getting these tickets to the tune of about $480!! Some people naively paid the tickets, others took them to court where they found that the traffic footage wasn't being reviewed by an officer - they were just signing off on them without looking at the circumstances of the driver.....A clear violation of the Bill of Rights. NEVER trust the Govt. to do the right thing. There are good people in the Govt. but the problem isn't with the people, it's with the machine.

Wow...Poignant

Glad to know I have you as a neighbor.

Gives me Hope...

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Let's say I sit on the park bench every afternoon. I notice that this one guy comes to the park every Wednesday and every Friday. I see that he goes to the ice cream vendor in the park on those days, and on Wednesdays he always buys an ice cream sandwich, and on Fridays he always buys a root beer snow cone. Does it hurt this guy in any way for me to take note of this?

what are your intentions? There may be a fine line between casual observations and "stalking".

Does it impinge on his freedom in any way? He doesn't know me, I don't know him. He will probably never even know that I have seen him and noticed his habits.

But that is the apples and oranges comparison you are doing there. You dont' know your hypothetical "guy". But the authorities know you. Your plates, which is what the OP is talking about, signify who owns that vehicle. Even worse, they aren't just casually observing. They are taking notes, then cross referencing those notes to look for patterns.

What if I am taking pictures at the park, and he walks into my shot? Is it illegal or immoral for me to take pictures at a public park?

A single image or video, with you and yours as the target? Not a problem. Setting up a camera system to capture everyone going through that park? Yeah, that is a problem.

You might ask, "well, what are you going to do with those pictures?" What if I don't do anything with them? What if I just have them in an archive folder on my smart phone, and eventually I delete them? But, what if when I am taking pictures on my cell phone, I happen to catch a shot of someone stealing a handbag? Is it illegal or immoral for me to turn my photo in to the police to help catch the thief? How is this different than cameras set up at a public place?

Your camera phone isn't an ever present, all seeing force. It is a personal device meant to capture snippets of personal information.

What we are talking about here is more nefarious. It is meant to capture everything, and then store key data points from the "everything" it captures. Do you think this will be used to your benefit? If so, why?

reply to post by wills120


Baloney. The machine is made up of the people. The problem is with the people.

Yes, there may be some well intentioned folks in government. But for me, guilt by association works well enough.

The "its not the people but the machine" mentality wasn'jt accepted by the Nazi's. I see no reason to lower the bar now.

reply to post by kaylaluv


But can't I offer the same argument against what you are saying? Why does my right to privacy go away as soon as I step into "public"? Why can't I just enjoy myself without someone always "watching" me? I won't use the tired slippery slope argument cuz society has a tendency to rid themselves of things they don't want. But, it seems that is getting tougher and tougher when you have a elected officials that don't tend to understand their function as a legislator.

Anyways, the argument of if you are doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about is ridiculous in that I still have a right to privacy even when in public. I could not follow you around everywhere you went listening to your conversations, following your credit/debit card transactions, tracking where you went and what you did and ate. I have seen several people found guilty of stalking charges for this very thing. Why would you allow your government to do it? The ONLY function of government it to protect your unalienable rights, not to spy.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by wills120

 

Baloney. The machine is made up of the people. The problem is with the people.

Yes, there may be some well intentioned folks in government. But for me, guilt by association works well enough.

The "its not the people but the machine" mentality wasn'jt accepted by the Nazi's. I see no reason to lower the bar now.

Thanks for the course correction...

The People we vote in to represent us in this Republic have sold our information.

Worse than that they will do anything to be re-elected.

I do believe there are good people in the Government.

But lets go with....Get rid of every single person in office next election.

They have ALL failed us...Time to send a message they will never forget.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by wills120

 

Baloney. The machine is made up of the people. The problem is with the people.

Yes, there may be some well intentioned folks in government. But for me, guilt by association works well enough.

The "its not the people but the machine" mentality wasn'jt accepted by the Nazi's. I see no reason to lower the bar now.

I'm by no means defending the Government. IMO, Big Government IS the greatest threat to the people. I just happen to believe that there are plenty of well-intentioned people who work for and with the Government. Guilt by association isn't a valid accusation just as apathy isn't a valid solution for what ails this country.

As an FYI, I'm a proud member of the San Diego InfraGard and regularly receive and contribute information on regional threats and such. I voluntarily do it to protect my family and my country and I have voiced my concern more than a few times regarding the collection of data and privacy and will continue to do so. Government can exist peacefully with the people as long as it adheres to the tenets of The Constitution.

Originally posted by TheSpanishArcher
I've been telling people this was happening for years. Obviously, I had no hard proof. Pretty much everyone has ignored me. So now I sit, basically friendless and the few I do have are blithering fools, getting old and decrepit, but I can say "HA! I was RIGHT!"

Little consolation that is. The truth has made me a social leper. I don't even attempt to talk to people anymore. Why bother?

I hope there is a special level of hell for these A******* who perpetrate this Godforsaken system, lawmakers, pigs, court officials, lawyers, all of them involved in turning America into a police state.

ETA: Forgot to add this from the article. Lovely sentiments, so heartwarming.

The San Diego Police Department finds the technology so helpful for policing that it wants to add more.

Two million pieces of data each month and yet it's not enough. Go figure.

edit on 6/18/2013 by TheSpanishArcher because: (no reason given)

Deja-Vu! I remember being laughed at by my friends! I saw them a couple of nights ago and said to them "you all thought it was a big joke when I said that our phone calls were all under surveillance"!
They said they had believed me but I know they were just saying that! Now when I tell them something I can see
they listen more intensely and with a look of horror on their faces!
I have decided against scaring the hell out of them so I will just tell them stuff I know is true and things that are not so extreme! If I were to tell them some of the things I know though they would be very afraid!
I feel as if a lot of the things I've heard several years ago are now just coming to light in the MSM!
This makes me wonder if we are months away from an economic collapse, years away or decades!
I hope it's the latter but from what I hear it's less then a year away! I have been wondering if the elite are
going to let it happen once the schools close for the summer and before their progeny begin to wander for their vacations!

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


What we are talking about here is more nefarious. It is meant to capture everything, and then store key data points from the "everything" it captures. Do you think this will be used to your benefit? If so, why?

It is meant to capture everything in public.

If my car gets stolen, they may be able to pinpoint where it is according to the data points.

If my child gets abducted, they may be able to find her and her abductor quickly by looking at the data points.

If terrorists go get stuff to make a bomb, then go somewhere to test the bombs, then go to the designated bombing place (the park where I hang out) for a "dry run", they may be able to thwart the event by looking at the data points.

So, yeah - I think it could be used for my benefit. Sometimes, just knowing that there are cameras in these public places will stop a criminal in the first place. That's even better.

I look at this as a massive force of highly efficient policemen and police detectives. Watching, monitoring -- Everywhere, all the time. Can policemen make mistakes? Yeeeess. Are there corrupt policemen out there? Yeeesss. Could someone use these data points for nefarious purposes? Maybe. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Fix the bathwater and keep the baby. Know what I mean?