Is Prism ECHELON by another name? with Roswell technology?

As far as I can tell they seem to be presenting to the public limited stories partially exposing their surveillance programs without mentioning all of them or explaining them simply. Many of these programs don't seem to be different at all. My impression is that they came out with ECHELON a long time ago and presented it to the public over thirteen years ago briefly and forgot about it. Then they described TIA eleven years ago which does some of the same things. when it received massive opposition they abandoned it for the public but they already had ECHELON which was doing the same thing and they pretended it wasn't related. Now they're doing it again with much more hype and they're calling the program "Prism," but it seem to do the same thing; the only difference is that they use a different name for the same program and they add a lot of spin to it.

Now one of the claims is that if they had it before 9/11 they could have used it to prevent 9/11. Well this is clearly false because they did have ECHELON before 9/11.

I went into this in more detail about it in a Blog post, Is “Prism” news? or is it ECHELON? The following are a couple of excerpts.

By now most people have heard the "new" disclosure of "Prism;" but for the most part there is little or no mention of the possibility that this program is virtually identical to ECHELON which was reported years ago; in fact it was exposed before the attacks on 9/11 or even when George Bush was inaugurated president. Anyone that takes a close look at this would almost certainly come to the conclusion that they're very similar if not virtually the same thing and perhaps that the biggest thing that is news isn't that the program was exposed but that they're covering it in a high profile manner, and that they're making a major appeal to emotions that is getting much more attention.

After explaining why I don't think either the commercial media or the alternative media are doing a good job covering it I speculated about the possibility that this might have been developed with alien technology based partially on Philip Corso's Book, The Day After Roswell," even though I think there are some problems with his book it might be close to the truth and worth considering.

In "The Day After Roswell" Philip Corso claims that a lot of technology that was developed since World War II was done so with the help of what they call "reverse engineering;" which means that he claims that they found alien technology and studied it and learned how to replicate it. quite frankly there are a lot of problems with this hypothesis, or at least the way he presents it and I wouldn't assume that there is anything to it without further back up; however it might be worth considering the possibility that this might be partially close to the truth.

Philip Corso provides a theory that involves aliens that have come here to invade us and he concludes that we could easily beat them at the end of the book and it includes a certain amount of cold war paranoia or at least it seems to; however if there is something to this it is almost certainly full of an enormous amount of disinformation as well as the discussion that accompanied it in the UFO community. This seems to be standard operating procedure when discussing UFOs in a high profile manner. If you watch enough of it you will find a lot of colossal blunders by both the "believers" and the "skeptics." It is hard to understand why the "skeptics" would make so many blunders if they truly were as scientific as they often claim to be. With all the blunders that the "believers" make it often seems as if the strongest evidence they have that will stand up to scrutiny is that their opponents have blundered a lot too.

There is more in Is “Prism” news? or is it ECHELON? that goes on to speculate about the possibility that this might be an attempt to disclose what they've been up to due to the fact that they're on an unsustainable path and it isn't even in their own best interest to allow fanatics to continue their activities. However the way they've been doing it clearly indicates that if there is something to this they clearly can't be trusted to disclose everything and it is full of an enormous amount of disinformation so everything has to be fact checked.

Even if alien technology isn't involved there is something wrong with the way they're covering this, including so-called progressive news outlets.

Well Corso claimed that the modern transistor was pretty much a result of the alien tech.
So anything using computers in his claim would equate to back engineered alien tech innovated for human use.

I enjoyed his book many years ago when I read it, and it is interesting.
However you must always remember to take claims like this with a grain of salt, especially when there are many good aspects of debate surrounding it that are deeply established. Many claim his claims are fabricated, and so forth.

I don't know because I wasn't there.
It's worth taking into account and keeping an open mind because you never really know.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I agree and I suspect his book almost certainly has a certain amount of disinformation like almost all UFO books but it is worth considering the possibility that there is some form of alien transfer of technology and that some of it is real although I doubt if all of his work is right. Stanton Freidman is one of his critics who I mentioned in the article but I have spotted disinformation from him as well, although, at times, he has also done work that is good.

That is the thing with this you always have catch the factual flaws and my impression is that many of them are almost certainly intentional because they're so obvious.

reply to post by zacherystaylor


Yeah I also feel that most of these books are a mix of truth and misdirection.

I also liked Friedman's stuff and I would recommend that as well to anyone.
For those wanting to hear his take on Roswell , check out :
"Crash at Corona: The Definitive Story of The Roswell Incident".

Also I should bring up
"Captured! The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience."
because this is one of the better cases of abduction that has not been successfully debunked to my knowledge, although many disregard it.

A really huge revelation about Barney's regressed "story", is that he claimed the 'leader' was a "Nazi", a "German Nazi".

I didn't find out about that aspect until after I was already deeply into the Nazi UFO topic researching all sorts of aspects of it. It's utterly compelling and I can't help but consider it highly plausible considering all of the facts and evidence that leads me towards that assessment.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I read most of his books including the ones you mentioned although it has been a while since I have been reading on this subject. I don't remember him talking about a "Nazi" connection with Barney. I spotted a couple of the shows about a UFO Nazi connection and had doubts about the way they were presented.

Originally posted by zacherystaylor
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I read most of his books including the ones you mentioned although it has been a while since I have been reading on this subject. I don't remember him talking about a "Nazi" connection with Barney. I spotted a couple of the shows about a UFO Nazi connection and had doubts about the way they were presented.

I have done some pretty extensive research so far into the Nazi UFO subject, and I can tell I haven't even barely scratched the surface. Everything connects and works out really well, it's a highly explanatory set of events. Once you know what to look for you can start spotting this in all of the famous UFO cases almost, with only a few exceptions.

Even cases that appeared faked at first like Adamski need to be reevaluated much more closely especially with the Nazi connection in mind. He even reports some monk looking guy with them leaving footprints with Swastikas on them just like the Tibetan monks have on their feet who were recruited by the Nazis back in the day.

There are just endless facets to the whole thing and I wish I could read whatever is being hidden from us so I could find the missing pieces.

Operation Highjump, Wunderwaffe, Anenerbe, Vril, Cult of the Black Sun, Agartha, etc etc etc. The topic is virtually endless you could never read it all. That's part of why it is so compelling and mind blowing in a way, to find out these Nazis actually believed in a lot of these things. Aliens, Atlantis, Vimanas and Occult History.

I don't know for sure because I wasn't there to see any of this happen, but one thing I do know for absolute sure is that I have seen a metallic flying saucer that resembles closely a Nazi model and so I am really curious to find out the ultimate truth about Nazis, aliens, and all this other stuff. I just know there is something to all of it, but exactly what is precisely true and what is exaggerations or misinfo, I am unsure.

I think everyone should look into these things if they seriously want to learn more about the overall history of UFOs and what is not often brought up directly in popular media. Just try to keep an open mind I guess, but I need more information to know the complete story here because I admit it's being hidden, obscured, and smoke screened. What is fake and what is real?

You know maybe that is an aspect to Roswell that Corso is hiding ? Something in relation to Nazi's and all this stuff that we don't know yet?

We can speculate but sadly he is no longer with us and we can only ask his son who I think is still alive. Last I remember his son was saying he thinks Roswell were time travelers from the near future and there was a time loop scenario. Kinda funny but also interesting that his son would state these things after his fathers passing. There are videos of his speeches if you want to look them up.

I would like to know more because we have multiple competing theories here, and maybe even some of them can be mixed also. Time travelers, ET's, Nazis, Inner Earthlings, combos of these, etc.

That's why we need an all encompassing disclosure so that all of these questions can be explained and cleared up. As it is right now all of this is up in the air for grabs still.

I actually didn't mean to go off topic there because I was intending to show that this technology could come from virtually anywhere. Even somewhere mundane but since this is ATS it's a lot funner to focus on the not so mundane possibilities.

In late 2010, the DOD purchased and destroyed right at 10,000 copies of a book "Operation Dark Heart" from St Martins Press, because it had some relatively minor tactical information related to the DIA.

Like place names, and some really basic procedural stuff, and a bit of field procedure that SF teams do. Really basic field tactics that are pretty common.

And for that, they bought the first edition and burned it.

It's not the only time they've done that.

If they're willing to burn a publishing run of books for the mention of Afghanistan's DIA central being in Kabul, that SF teams tend to ride horses in mountainous areas and that you often stick the junior charlie out front, why do you think that Corso's book was published without any reprisal? Why did they so blatantly not care?

reply to post by muzzleflash


I don't consider that off topic although I'm of some of it but willing to consider different ideas. the quality of most of the material I read about the Nazi connection seemed so bad, at least to me, that I didn't look into it much further. It seemed like paranoia and it didn't seem like something that an advanced intelligence would have a good reason to do.

However there is a possible indirect connection to the Nazi's and many other things including things that have happened going back centuries. Consider the megaliths all over the world that couldn't be replicated with primitive technology. the Colossi of Memnon is one of the best examples; it weighs 720 tons and was towed across land 420 miles according to academic sources. Experiments to replicate this rarely go over ten tons and the ones up to fifty tons involved cheating. I went into this more in 107 Wonders of the Ancient World.

Assume for the sake of argument that these involved influence from some advanced intelligence then it would mean that by withholding advice they would be giving tacit support for all the things that happened since then including the Crusades and the Nazis. Also the megaliths involve cult activity that may have been used to indoctrinate people and lead to religious beliefs and atrocities.

A possible opportunity to research social behavior as we develop?

I don't know; but as far as the time travel claim I doubt it. I suspect it isn't even possible and it sounds like more typical misinformation.

reply to post by Bedlam


Actually there was a reprisal to Corso's book. They did a show on it on the UFO files which is where Stanton Freidman expressed his doubts. Your point is valid though they almost certainly allowed it to be published if they didn't encourage it and then they did what they could to confuse the issue so that it wouldn't be believed and there is disinformation in it which shouldn't be believed.

This is typical, the truth mixed in with the lies so no one can tell them apart.

reply to post by zacherystaylor


I think my point was that it's fiction. To the point there wasn't anything in there worth suppressing.

reply to post by Bedlam


Well it received an enormous amount of attention anyway and some of the debunking seemed as flawed as the claims by Corso, if not more so. As indicated before I have seen so many flaws on both sides that I often suspect that they aren't even trying to get it right which might be because they're attempting to use controlled disclosure that won't be believed until it suits their purposes. If it was all bunk then they could have done a better job debunking it; instead they successfully confused the issue.

One thing that might lead support to the theory that some unknown technology is being developed with help one way or another is the fact that it is being developed so fast. And that many of the things that were previously considered science fiction are turning out to be close to the new technology being developed.

Altering DNA by aliens was considered irrational because it couldn't be done; but now they're developing cloning technology and genetically modified crops and many other things. the ECHELON technology was developed over decades a lot of which included a time period where they probably shouldn't have had the technology but it appears as if they had at least some of it long before it was made public.

Reasonable skepticism is appropriate but I'm not ruling out the possibility that there is something to it.

In a follow up post, Are Naomi Wolf, Edward Snowden, Prism, and ECHELON dividing us? I attempted to cover more problems that I found with the coverage of the alleged disclosures by Eward Snowden even though they seem to be mostly if not all information that was previously revealed and isn't news at all.

This has led to several people speculating about who is or is not working for the NSA or CIA. Some of this is almost certainly not surprising to people at ATS. the following are a couple excerpts from the post.

The accusations about who is working for the CIA or the NSA have begun; and anyone who was familiar with these two organization might know that this would be inevitable; and that it has actually been going on for quite a while; only now it is becoming higher profile. Dave Lindorff recently wrote an article speculating about "Is Naomi Wolf working for the NSA?" It isn't until the third page of his article where he comes out and says that he doesn't really believe that she is but that he thinks it is more likely that she is doing this based on an "instinct for self-promotion and grandstanding."

His article is based on her Facebook article about "My creeping concern that the NSA leaker is not who he purports to be." The opening post doesn't actually state that she is speculating about the possibility that Edward Snowden might still be working for the NSA but it does imply it and she confirms this in her follow up post on it, Some aspects of Snowden's presentation that I find worth further inquiry - an update.

I have also had my doubts about the way this has been presented in the media and the fact that they haven't mentioned ECHELON in a high profile manner even though it seems to be virtually identical to the program which they now call "Prism." I went into this in Is “Prism” news? or is it ECHELON? In brief this post is about the lack of coverage of the ECHELON program which seem virtually identical to "Prism" but it was exposed as early as 1988 and it was featured in a much higher profile Manner in both 60 Minutes in 2000 and National Geographic on or about the same time. This means that the program was in place before 9/11 happened and it didn't serve the purpose that it was allegedly intended for. Whether "Prism" is the same program by another name or not it didn't serve the same purpose when it came to stopping the Boston Bombing either. .....

This story was left with him in the transit zone of Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport since flying in from Hong Kong, over a week ago now, but no one seems to have seen him there; nor as far as I can tell has anyone seen him on the flight from Hong Kong although we're told he was there. They have shown media footage of reporters asking people if they have seen him and he is, perhaps, the most talked about person on TV. This is almost as absurd as the satirical music video by the Dixie Chicks, "Good by Earl." When they play, 'The cops came by to bring Earl in They searched the house high and low Then they tipped their hats and said, "Thank you, ladies If you hear from him let us know,” ' they show the cops looking under small pieces of furniture too small to hide a person or behind pictures for Earl looking confused but sincere. This was supposed to be a satire but the story of Edward Snowden is real.

Why should we believe that the official version of Edward Snowden is less absurd than a Spy vs Spy cartoon from Mad Magazine?....

I don't know for certain that this is part of a controlled disclosure attempt but if they're trying to make absurd theories seem more realistic by making the truth seem just as absurd it could look something like this.

The more they cover this the more the official version of this looks more absurd than what they portray as "fringe conspiracy theories."

Now they've made it even more absurd by blocking the president of Bolivia from the air space of several countries and forcing an emergency landing for a false alarm.