Mark of the Beast Dream, page 2

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 03:59 PM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Firefly_
Religion was created as a tool to control the masses through various methods, mostly by keeping people ignorant and afraid.

the Roman Catholic Church taught salvation through both works and grace (mostly through works), and things such as the unbiblical “Purgatory”. That was in fact done for control...

No other Christian faiths teach any such thing. Protestants do not teach “Purgatory”, and teach salvation through grace...

It is not possible to control in a religion that teaches salvation through grace.
What you are stating here is untrue Marxist tripe.

Originally posted by Firefly_
People are given a NI/SS number at birth. That means they become a part of the system with no consent or control.

Your SSN does not meet any of the criteria required to be the “mark”. Its not international, it does not include you're hand or forehead... Heck, you're not even required to get one as a US citizen...

Originally posted by Firefly_
A god which would condemn every human being to hell for such a thing is an evil monster, and THAT god is the true beast we should avoid.

God does not condemn anyone to hell, sin condemns us to hell. God offers us a chance at salvation through great personal sacrifice out of his love for us.

Originally posted by Firefly_
Bear in mind we are now living almost 2000 years since that book was written. That book has no originals, its all copies of copies. The bible is incomplete and twisted, and it never had divine origins in the first place.

The bible was pretty well in its final form by the time of Irenaeus, about 100 years after the death of Christ. We can prove this because Irenaeus quoted from all but 2 of the books of the New Testament in his work “against heresies”.

Listen less to the “anti-religion” crowd, and study the real history instead.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

guidetube

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 05:35 PM

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I was referring more to a fake jesus rather than the actual false prophet mentioned in the bible.
I mean for example Islam jumping onto a messiah, or even the NWO. Not that I feel that likely but would be dangerous.

I do feel the false prophet/anti-christ seems to be a NWO/West/USA with micro chips and other frowned upon practices, and this causing more strife than oil, water or politics.

With this being the last chapter of the current bible; history will surely be written different than we perceive it; Will it be a massive show down and the bible was right (well right to a point it would also be the reason) or will it be a new definition of God and World Order since the old has served its purpose or debunked.

Thanks defcon5 really interesting posts.

defcon5

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 06:10 PM

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reply to post by guidetube

John wrote in the prophetic language as Daniel. Look up the beasts in Daniel, and you'll see that they are talking about countries, not men. The only exception being that a “little horn” appears on one of the beasts, which is still not a “man” but a “station of men”.

Fast forward to the 1500's. You have Martin Luther taking on the Roman Catholic Church, and making it very public that the “little horn” and “man of sin” relates to the station of the Pontifex Maximus or Holy Pontiff. Rome holds the council of Trent to form the “counter-reformation”, out of which comes competing theories; one of which states that the “beasts” of Revelation are “future”, antichrist, supernatural beings instead of countries. This is called “Futurism” and was a product of the Jesuit Order, specifically Francisco Ribera. Even the Catholics themselves reject this theory in favor of another one they produced called Preterism.

Fast forward again to the end of the 1900's... The majority of Christianity was not taught eschatology, and forgot the proper interpretation. As we started getting close to 2000 and people got scared about the “end of the world” and wanted to learn more about it. So they turned to popular works, like “The Late Great Planet Earth”, and errantly learned Roman Catholic Jesuit Futurism. It has since become the most popular school of interpretation among Christians, and the one that most books and movies are based on.

To quickly sum up:

Futurism teaches a future 7 year tribulation, rapture, a “human” antichrist and false prophet.
Preterism teaches that most of prophecy was fulfilled in Nero and Antiochus Epiphanes.
Historicism teaches that Revelation spans the whole of the “age of the church” and that the beasts are Rome and the next world superpower after the removal of the Pope from political power in the 1790's.

edit on 6/15/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

Firefly_

posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 05:25 AM

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reply to post by defcon5

I do not have the time to fully address every point you made right now. However, you are wrong on pretty much every one. I assume you have never even read the bible? I am no scholar but I have studied the bible from various perspectives, and they all lead to trouble.

I think you need to study real history. So you are saying that christians of not just catholic, but other denominations, have never used fear and ignorance to control people? Come on, its only very recently that women and homosexuals have been accepted as equals, things the bible completely forbid. If you fail to understand how religion is used and abused by the people in control, then I guess you should just give up on this subject. Even now, to this very day, it still happens.

God in the bible (and qur'an etc) claims to be the judge, jury and executioner. It is he who condemns, not sin. Sin is made up by religion to control people. You cannot transgress against something that is imaginary. If there is some sort of higher power, and I do not doubt there is something bigger going on than we are aware of, you can bet your ass its not written down in some old books.

At the end of the day we are slightly more intelligent animals, and people who understood us better than ourselves used that to their advantage and created religion, keeping people in a state of ignorance so they could pass themselves off as gods. This is where the beast prophecies become self-fulfilling - they became the very thing they warned against.

I think you also fail to understand how a lie is best told. Of course religion preaches charity. Carrot and stick. A lie is best told with a dose of the truth (ie the universal truth - do unto others) to give it credibility. Its tragic really, because some truly good people throw their lives away and waste opportunities because they are lied to and told they are "sinful". And while the needy do benefit from religious charity, the majority of the donations and works benefit the church leaders.

edit on 17-6-2013 by Firefly_ because: (no reason given)

munkey66

posted on Jun, 17 2013 @ 06:29 AM

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I always find the idea of an implant or chip to simple to be the mark of the beast, it is easy to make the argument about being able to buy or sell, but do you worship a chip or implant?

I tend to look outside the box and look at human nature and how humans still have the herd mentality.

The mark will be a mark that is visible that other worshipers will see and know that you believe,

will it be a tattoo showing your devotion to an alien being proclaiming to be our creator?
will it be a mark showing that you follow a particular belief that Jesus has returned and performed miracles?

I dont know the reason why people will take the mark, but they will line up around the block to get it, to show the world that they believe,
as we live in a herd mentality it wont take long for people to start descriminating against those who dont believe and dont have the mark, the descrimination will soon get more physical to the point of non believers will be hunted down and attacked as a heretic.

we are a sad race that constantly needs reasurance from everyone and we are so preoccupied with what others think that we forget ourselves.

defcon5

posted on Jun, 19 2013 @ 10:34 AM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by Firefly_
So you are saying that christians of not just catholic, but other denominations, have never used fear and ignorance to control people?

No religion that teaches salvation through “faith alone” can be a religion of control.
If you don't understand “salvation by faith”, I recommend that you start studying the Bible more, as its a very difficult concept to miss. “Justification by faith” means that no matter what I do, as long as I am sincerely sorry, and ask forgiveness, I am forgiven. Luther was the first to split from Catholicism, and this one one of the main points in his 95 Theses.

Originally Luther had intended to reform Catholicism, as he honestly believed that the Indulgence Peddlers were the ones using “fear” to “control” and sell forgiveness. He wrote the 95 Theses in the hopes that the pope would see the abuse of men like John Tetzel, and go back to a “grace based” forgiveness. It ended up that the pope was very much behind what was happening, and was using the money from Indulgences to pay for the building of his cathedrals.

Originally posted by Firefly_
Come on, its only very recently that women and homosexuals have been accepted as equals, things the bible completely forbid.

That has nothing to do with a religion “controlling” you.
When people say that something is a religion of “control” they mean that its being abused by a government, or religious organization, to make people act a certain way via threat. For example, the Roman Catholics teaching that if you paid them enough money they would eliminate your relatives time in Purgatory. That is control...

However, with that said...
Under “salvation through grace” anyone committing any sin can be forgiven as long as they are penitent and ask forgiveness. So what it's saying is not “if you do this, you go to hell” (control)... What its actually saying is “try not to do this, but if you do, realize that its not what God wants you to do, ask him for forgiveness, and try not to do it again” (Grace)...

What you seem to want is a religion that has no rules or morals... There is no religion has no “rules”. If that is what you want, a life without any rules, your not going to find that on this Earth

As far as women go, I have never seen a woman treated any differently in any church I have ever belonged too. The only difference is that in some faiths they cannot be clergy, but they hold many other equally high positions within the church.

Originally posted by Firefly_
If you fail to understand how religion is used and abused by the people in control, then I guess you should just give up on this subject. Even now, to this very day, it still happens.

Please feel free to enlighten me.

Originally posted by Firefly_
God in the bible (and qur'an etc) claims to be the judge, jury and executioner. It is he who condemns, not sin. Sin is made up by religion to control people.

Sin exists because God exists. Being sinful is falling outside the perfection of God or going against the Will of God. Grace is a way that we can still be in the presence of God while having been sinful creatures in the past.

Originally posted by Firefly_
You cannot transgress against something that is imaginary. If there is some sort of higher power, and I do not doubt there is something bigger going on than we are aware of, you can bet your ass its not written down in some old books.

That is an opinion that the vast majority of the people on the planet disagree with you on.

I am not even going to bother with the rest as you seem to be a confirmed non-believer, who is not here to have a discussion in line with the OP. My question then is; why come into a thread that is about the topic of religion, and is being discusses by people who obviously chose to believe, just to let us know that you don't? Don't you think that people can figure out on their own that they can chose to not believe if they so decide?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.