The Zimmerman Trial

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Yes it is info published in his book, however he is now testifying to it as something Zimmerman told him. That is not really second hand info filtered through a publisher. It's first hand info told to him by Zimmerman.

Anyone notice the other detail he just testified to?

He got out of the car with the intent of keeping a visual on Trayvon Martin.

Now.... how do you keep a visual on some one if you are not following?

he has never denied that he started following at first, whats the point is now was he following him when the fight started or was he on his way back to the car.

Originally posted by MrWendal
He got out of the car with the intent of keeping a visual on Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman has gone back and forth on that in his statements. A few times he said he got out to look for an address and a few times he said he was following to keep track of Martin for the police. Heck .. it could have been both reasons. At this point I don't know if the reason matters. Lead Detective Sorino said that it wasn't illegal for Zimmerman to follow Martin. So even if he was following him ... it wasn't illegal.

I suppose it could go to how truthful the five official statements were. But again Sorino said that the differences were small and unimportant and to be expected. He didn't think it raised any red flags.


I'm still thinking this is hear-say. I can't wrap my head around why it's not.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
whats the point is now was he following him when the fight started or was he on his way back to the car.

And we don't know. The whole thing comes down to who started the fight. Who threw the first punch. We won't ever know. That means 'reasonable doubt' for Murder 2.

ETA .. witness jeantel (discredited) stated that Martin was all the way back home ... but then Martin was found elsewhere ... so if Jeantel is at all credible (which I doubt) then that would mean Martin left home and went looking for Zimmerman.

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

You're speculating.

Is it possible? Sure I suppose it is, but the problem is, no one has testified to such a thing.

yes i'm speculating, in response to one of the details you wanted to put out. in which i put out a little detail.
there are all kinds of things that have not been testified to.

Okay .. kill this guys testimony. He just said that he wrote a book 'from memory'.
He just admitted that he may have documented or remembered things wrong.
A waste of time. Someone get him off the stand and put on some real facts. ugh.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Again .. yes ... we get it ... race race race.

Every time I doscover more about this case your reading of it looks more biased. I just sifted through Serino's testimony this morning and he said that Zimmerman may have profiled Martin. So race, according to Serino, may well have played a part.

I said that his behavior fit a pattern enough that it was feasible for a neighborhood watchman to call it in to 911.

And again - Serino said Martin had committed no crime. Are you saying that it's possible for someone to correctly believe you are committing a crime while you are not committing a crime? Your logic is all over the place.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
hear·say
- Information received from other people that cannot be adequately substantiated; rumor.
- The report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.


Someone tell me how this 'best friends' book isn't 'hearsay'??
Zimmerman didn't ghost write it with him. It's all the 'best friends' story.
We have eye witness accounts of the incidents. Sworn testimony.
How is this mans filtered version of events (which so far match Zimmermans) being admitted?

The same way they allowed an objection the day after the fact, instead of at the moment of the objectionable offense? This judge had been biased towards the prosection from the beginning. She has disallowed everything of the defense behalf, and allowed everything on the prosecution behalf.
If, and that is a resounding if, George gets convicted, she has handed them a handy appeal.

I read she does not care, as this is her last trial, and she is moving on to something else after the trial is over. Not certain, however, of the veracity of that claim.

reply to post by WonderBoi


Something that has been bugging me since yesterday is the fact that Zimmerman said that Trayvon was on top of him when he shot Travon and Travoyn said “you got me” or something like that. Then he (Zimmerman) pushed Trayvon off of him, got on his back, and proceeded to spread Trayvon’s arms out. My question is how did Trayvon get on his stomach? If he were on top of Zimmerman how much force would it have taken for Zimmerman, from a prone position, after taking a supposedly severe beating, disoriented after having his head thrashed, to push him up and off of him so that Trayvon flipped and ended up on his stomach?

It makes more sense if Travon were already on the ground when he was shot and then reflexively curled and turned away from the threat (in pain he may have attempted to roll away), ended up on his stomach. That would mean that his roll was not impeded, so Zimmerman would have been at a position of power, up and off of him or away and off of him, when he pulled the trigger. When telling his version on the tape, Zimmerman paused after saying he pushed Trayvon and got on his back, not explaining how Trayvon ended up on his stomach. This bothers me, because it is a question that should be asked. It should have been asked by the police when they interviewed him, and it should have been followed up on.

If telling the truth, the pause would have been filled with “he fell back and rolled over, so I got on his back”, but this is not the case. There was a pause and Zimmerman, with a confused look, skipped this part. I work full time and go to school, so I may not be able to respond right away, but I will try to get back to this thread when I have the time.

I try to picture the scene... Trayvon Martin is on top with his knees in Zimmerman's armpits (or ribs). Martin has one hand on his nose, one on his mouth, another two hands are slamming Z's head on the concrete and a fifth hand is punching him in the face. All this time, Z is just laying there with his arms splayed, not fighting back for his life.

Zimmerman squirms DOWN into the grass, to get his head off the concrete, forcing Martin's knees even higher into Z's pits. And then Martin grabs for the gun (which is located under his own shin at this point), but Zimmerman grabs it instead and manages to shoot Martin in the chest.

Z then holsters his gun, not knowing that Martin is dead. And jumps on top of him and spreads his arms.

If I had a gun and thought the guy who was trying to kill me might still be alive, the LAST thing I'm going to do is holster my gun and jump on the guy!!! WTF?

This story is simply unbelievable!

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by MrWendal
He got out of the car with the intent of keeping a visual on Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman has gone back and forth on that in his statements. A few times he said he got out to look for an address and a few times he said he was following to keep track of Martin for the police. Heck .. it could have been both reasons. At this point I don't know if the reason matters. Lead Detective Sorino said that it wasn't illegal for Zimmerman to follow Martin. So even if he was following him ... it wasn't illegal.

I suppose it could go to how truthful the five official statements were. But again Sorino said that the differences were small and unimportant and to be expected. He didn't think it raised any red flags.


I'm still thinking this is hear-say. I can't wrap my head around why it's not.

It is not hearsay if the defendant told you the information. He is not testifying about his book. He is testifying to what Zimmerman told him, not as a writer, but as his best friend.

Yes, I agree following is not illegal. However, it sets the stage as portraying Zimmerman as an agitator and not a victim who needed to defend himself. The defense claims self defense. It is not defense if you are the agitator, aggressor, or provoke the situation.

Remember what I have always asked, "Did the actions of George Zimmerman put into motion the chain of events which lead to the death of Trayvon Martin?" I think as the Prosecution continues, they intend to prove that the answer is yes.

I am now also beginning to wonder if the Prosecutor over reached with Murder 2 on purpose, with the intent of getting a manslaughter conviction. It has been known to happen before, prosecutors have done so intentionally as part of a strategy. Typically when Prosecutors over charge they do so knowing full well that they can not prove the charges, but they do so in order to strike a plea deal to a more appropriate charge. The over charge, with the longer sentences, puts them in a better plea bargaining position. Is it possible the DA's Office over charged purposely hoping to strike a deal only to have Zimmerman refuse any deal thus trapping them into a corner and forcing them to go to trial on the over charge? I am beginning to think so, because even though the Prosecution is scoring points with today's testimonies, they still have not come close to proving Murder 2 in my opinion.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

This story is simply unbelievable!

You're doing a better job than the prosecution.


Peace

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Martin grabs for the gun (which is located under his own shin at this point, but Zimmerman grabs it instead and manages to shoot Martin in the chest.

That support the fact that martins cloth did not touch his skin when he was shot
it support that some one begged for help

reply to post by Tlove250

My question is how did Trayvon get on his stomach?

Even the detective in the re-enactment video asked him: "Did you flip him over?" Apparently, the detective was just as confused. Lots of holes in Zimmerman's story. Lots of things that don't make sense.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

Originally posted by MrWendal
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

You're speculating.

Is it possible? Sure I suppose it is, but the problem is, no one has testified to such a thing.

yes i'm speculating, in response to one of the details you wanted to put out. in which i put out a little detail.
there are all kinds of things that have not been testified to.

edit on 2-7-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

The "detail I wanted to put out" is not a detail, it is fact considering it is testified to. Martin's knees were up in Zimmerman's armpits.

The "detail" you put out, is not a detail at all. It is speculation and will remain so until someone testifies and confirms it. That's when it will be fact and that's when it would be allowed to be considered by a Jury.

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by Tlove250

 

My question is how did Trayvon get on his stomach?

Even the detective in the re-enactment video asked him: "Did you flip him over?" Apparently, the detective was just as confused. Lots of holes in Zimmerman's story. Lots of things that don't make sense.

If Martin wasnt dead right away he could actually still move himself untill he died

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

This story is simply unbelievable!

You can't tell that to a select few, here. They sweeeeeeaaaarrrr it was "self defense."

Here's my question: if he shot him point blank, in the chest, where is the blood? I'm pretty sure the bullet would have left a hole in his back.

reply to post by MrWendal


The "detail I wanted to put out" is not a detail, it is fact considering it is testified to. Martin's knees were up in Zimmerman's armpits.

Have you ever been into a fight, seen a fight? people dont just stay paralyzed in one signle position, there alot of moving arround.

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

This story is simply unbelievable!

You can't tell that to a select few, here. They sweeeeeeaaaarrrr it was "self defense."

Here's my question: if he shot him point blank, in the chest, where is the blood? I'm pretty sure the bullet would have left a hole in his back.

Yeah he would have a massive hole in the back, and propably also would have explodes with those american hollywood projectiles you think of

Originally posted by Libertygal


The same way they allowed an objection the day after the fact, instead of at the moment of the objectionable offense?

The thing is, the objection after the fact is pretty pointless. Once something is put out in front of the jury, you can't take it back. You can instruct them to disregard, but that does not mean they will and in most cases, most attorneys would tell you once it is out there, you can't take it out of the minds of a jury.

This is why so much time is spent on Jury selection. This is why they question heavily about what potential jurors may have heard ahead of time or what opinions they may have formulated prior to receiving the facts of a case.

This judge had been biased towards the prosection from the beginning. She has disallowed everything of the defense behalf, and allowed everything on the prosecution behalf.
If, and that is a resounding if, George gets convicted, she has handed them a handy appeal.

Not at all. Not even close. This is comment is just beyond silly.

I read she does not care, as this is her last trial, and she is moving on to something else after the trial is over. Not certain, however, of the veracity of that claim.

Maybe you read this on the internet so it must be true. Did you know that I am a French Model? Bonjour

Originally posted by Minus

Originally posted by WonderBoi
reply to post by Tlove250

 

My question is how did Trayvon get on his stomach?

Even the detective in the re-enactment video asked him: "Did you flip him over?" Apparently, the detective was just as confused. Lots of holes in Zimmerman's story. Lots of things that don't make sense.

If Martin wasnt dead right away he could actually still move himself untill he died

Not according to Zimmerman's words. He said he pushed him off. I still don't see how Zimmerman was able to draw his weapon, from the position he was in. I'm a former wrestler, and if someone gets you in that position, you've got SERIOUS problems!!! It's a very difficult position to get out of. Never mind trying to reach for your firearm, as your head is being SLAMMED into the cement.