Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


But you'll be a believer if there happens to be an oh so convenient terrorist attack....come on man..this is how it works. If PRISM is shut down and something happens a week later, everyone will be back on the boat again...people are that predictable. In fact the fact PRISM didn't stop or identify the Boston Bombers before hand or the two Islamists who decapitated the British soldier in London in broad day light....only proves PRISM is ineffective at identifying and stopping actual terrorists...So the obvious outcome will not be to close the program down but to expand it much much further...Have no doubts about it...which makes this leak not a leak at all but more like the public conditioning and accepting of the bloody obvious that this is Big Brother and that the public have to be in on it for it to be brought to fruition.

You cannot have in dept surveillance like microchipping, unless the public are made aware of it first, but crucially they must be conditioned into accepting it.

This leak, is not a leak, this is simply the next step. Already the spin on this disclosure, is that "we need a public debate on this surveillance"..no "we need to dismantle this surveillance and prosecute to the fullest extent those who orchestrated it"..see this is already how its being played out...The outcry is minimal and its being watered down anyhow.

Microchipping is next, because we need surveillance, as its a fact of life post 9/11 because there are "potential" terrorists everywhere now...See this is the rational, it's the mainstream rational and if its in the mainstream the public at large buy it hook line and sinker...The only way to stop people being easily led sheeple, it to get all TV's thrown into the garbage, but we all know people will never stop smoking the crack pipe.

Microchipping is next...I have no doubt about it..it will eaither be for the health care of as a passport...

Oh I forgot the other reason..all the illegal immigrants...remember how the UK and US governments have a long standing habit of allowing millions of illegal immigrants to flood over the borders, and the inevitable outcome is that people cry foul...Well here is a brilliant solution..why not microchip everyone..what a great solution to stop terrorists and illegal migrants...see...people will buy it. I have no doubts about that. For f**k sake everyone drinks fluoride without much fuss.

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Interestingly enough, Rand Paul is urging the citizens to join him in a class action suit against the Government with the intent of taking it all the way to the supreme court.

Folks around here are actually pretty serious this time it seems.
Fingers crossed.

And it is good to see you too!

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
I suppose the option is a case through the courts. Having no clue on US legal system, One would hope the "people' can raise a claim against the government...which is a joke no doubt as it wouldn't make it past the first application

Well there is a class action suit against the parties involved...and government petitions to stop the unconstitutional acts, as well as to pardon and protect Edward.

In general though, yeah it feels like slamming your face into a brick wall to find out what is on the other side.

9/11
retina scans electronic finger printing to travel
Body scans
TSA
PRISM
In the UK they tried to bring in ID cards, it got scrapped for now...but another chipping away in the same direction.
You dont jump from 9/11 to microchips in one leap, there would have been riots and revolutions...So you do it in incremental steps. Boiling the frog as others have stated.
Dont buy this BS leak, its not a leak, its a set up. Its designed to set up the next step and its worked a treat. The public now are "aware" of the global spying on all their personal data. Yet predictably no rioting in the streets..and even if there was, it would be limited to a few outbursts and easily put down...we will probably see a well organised and well meaning student protest or two here and there (the naive fools)..which will lead to zip...as usual..just like the occupy wall street fun and games...I mean I am no brain surgeon but I can figure it out easily enough.

You need to be aware of Big Bother in order for Big Brother to implement itself fully. Now that joe public is aware and either apathetic or busy ranting online...and all the governments are in agreement anyhow...well, what next...microchipping us all for our passports. You bet your 455 on it.

reply to post by JayinAR


Ahh intersting, any links on the class action ?

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by JayinAR

 

Ahh intersting, any links on the class action ?

Here's a link to the thread discussing it.

Class Action Suit

Originally posted by ladyvalkyrie
QUESTION:
So, when this story broke (before Snowden's identity was revealed) I was following the comment board on cnn.com and it was pretty refreshing how many intelligent, anti-big govt spying comments there were.

Now, his identity is revealed and you go on the comment board and it's overwhelmingly negative against him and 'at least we're safe from the terrorist, I don't care if they do surveillance on me'. And the comments are piling up so fast that any good ones quickly get buried by this inane crap.

I have the feeling the DoD gave all it's employees the day to take a break from whatever they've been working on so they can troll these comment boards. Any thoughts on this?

*Sorry I can't make a new thread for this question, I'm new to this site.

Welcome to ATS!

That's an incredibly perceptive question. Here is my answer.

There is, as was previously mentioned in this thread, a program whereby bots post a slew of comments on sites about a variety of topics to either drive the conversation in a particular direction or kill it off entirely.

That communications are tapped and recorded is not news to many, but it is a new topic du iour for the media to play with.

The meme is out there now. And I don't mean a cute picture accompanied by a pithy phrase. To me a meme is more of a "root idea" such as the meme for a chair would be "something to sit on" now that could be a bench or even a tree stump.

But now he meme of "everything you do is recorded by your government" is of there for popular consumption. And sure you've got some sock puppets talking about the guy who let it be known in a spectacular way and trying to make him the topic of conversation.

But the big doozy of "YES BIG BROTHER IS REAL AND HERE NOW" will make the rounds and is being tracked to gauge response by the populace at large. It's been talked about in places like this for years and even occasionally on the MSM.

To say nothing of what those who take news and morph it to fit a desired portrayal of an event do with this.

I think they're looking to see what they can get their shiny new toy to do. And like the second Death Star I think that portions of what that Utah center are going to be a part of are already operational.

It's not people who listen to your conversations it's the successor of Carnivore et al. that does. The Utah complex will only add to capabilities they currently have.

Originally posted by ladyvalkyrie
QUESTION:
So, when this story broke (before Snowden's identity was revealed) I was following the comment board on cnn.com and it was pretty refreshing how many intelligent, anti-big govt spying comments there were.

Now, his identity is revealed and you go on the comment board and it's overwhelmingly negative against him and 'at least we're safe from the terrorist, I don't care if they do surveillance on me'. And the comments are piling up so fast that any good ones quickly get buried by this inane crap.

I have the feeling the DoD gave all it's employees the day to take a break from whatever they've been working on so they can troll these comment boards. Any thoughts on this?

*Sorry I can't make a new thread for this question, I'm new to this site.

I believe what you're saying is true, but my feeling is the DoD is not behind this and don't appreciate Obama or Prism. Just my feelings.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
Maybe it was the fluoride in my water...the mercury in my fillings...the fear of some possible terrifying repercussions for voicing dissent or even questioning the program.. Maybe it was because I was scraping along like I always did, so it made no difference to me anyhow...maybe it's because we're all going to die one day anyway...maybe its because the anxiety was proving to much to live with, so i just decided to stop caring...maybe it was because I knew there is no way you can win...maybe im a realist...maybe im a coward...maybe i saw the world as it is and maybe I didn't like it but didn't hate it enough to change it either...and maybe i know i couldn't change it anyhow...so why bother...maybe I knew society was too fractured, to full of individuals all chasing their own personal dreams and desires to ever come to togeather and unify as a real force for change...maybe its all these reasons and more that people just don't really care anymore.

So i rant on the internet, under a pseudonym...that says it all really.

edit on 10-6-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

Maybe so. Or maybe people feel like they no longer have a voice. Maybe people will start speaking up!

reply to post by Maluhia


I believe the progressive PTB are very fearful at this point. I think this story will remain and grow slowly over the next few months and when something else comes out it will boil over.



Why are there so few leaders coming out against this? Is this really what America has become. We should all be ashamed at our apathy and fear.


When will we see protests being organized? Where is the ACLU? Where are the leaders who care about freedom?

THIS man is an American HERO and he needs and deserves our support , what does it say to teh world about AMerica and its people . When a Citizen does whats right and reveals our Government abusing there power and overstepping themselves , has to run to another Country to protect himself .

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Hmm.
I haven't looked. I have had the news on in the background all day. Haven't searched for it...
Let me look.

ETA: never mind, Shark Feeder got it.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


Oh, most definitely portions of Utah are already operational.
As I reported from FOX earlier, they reported today that 30 installations in and around DC have been built since 9/11/2001 for this exact purpose [storing data].
The facilities, in total, are larger than the Pentagon...three times over.


All for metadata storage.

Which, by the way, is more helpful than actual data content when building a profile.

They can say, "looking through content data is impossible for a single human mind", and that is true. But it misses the point. WHO you call, WHERE they are from. HOW OFTEN, Web searches, credit card purchases, internet porn searches, ATS thread topic comments, etc, are MUCH MORE useful and managable in building a profile than what you ACTUALLY SAID to your mom last night.

Through metadata the profile spits out a "libertarian, 2nd amendment supporting, gun toter who shops at Bass Pro Shops and accesses three streaming porno sites a day...TARGET"


Yes, I just profiled myself. What's the damn harm? They know now anyways.

I am on at least three of their damn lists already.

Originally posted by SubTruth
reply to post by Maluhia

 

I believe the progressive PTB are very fearful at this point. I think this story will remain and grow slowly over the next few months and when something else comes out it will boil over.

Why are there so few leaders coming out against this? Is this really what America has become. We should all be ashamed at our apathy and fear.

Leaders of the world are indeed coming out against this, and I think Edward Snowden has given them the opportunity to do so, which is very good in my opinion:

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.dailymail.co.uk... .html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Obama faces grilling from European leaders over spying programs... as Germans and Italians say PRISM would be illegal in EU countries. President Barack Obama will face a barrage of questions and criticism about the U.S.'s spying programs from European leaders this week when he crosses the Atlantic for the G8 Summit in Northern Ireland.

I admire you guys in the US for your founding fathers, they were so smart... why do you not listen anymore to what they had to say???

Why do you not listen anymore to your own constitution???

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

by Benjamin Franklin.

He was one of those smart guys. What Franklin had to say is relevant today more than anything ever!!! Don't you see it???

More people die from nut allergy in the US than from terrorists! I know this is a silly comparison, but I hope you understand the point that I'm trying to make. Terrorists are really not that important in the US as what 'they' are trying to make it seem like.

I wish all the best for Edward Snowden, what a true hero.

Originally posted by Indigo5
Has anyone asked ATS and SO to make a statement to members as to whether or not they volountarily share thier membership data etc.?

We don't. ATS Privacy Policy.

Thanks Intrepid. Not to go all legalese and parse statements, but....

A FISA warrant has as one of it's components a requirement that providers of info. don't disclose that they are providing the information.

So if a FISA warrant is in place they (Apple, Googlge etc) can not tell the public or they break the law.

But...if no warrant is in place, they can say...no warrant is in place. Cuz they are under no such restriction.

So let me ask this specific question. Does ATS have any "Active" warrants in place (not specific to past investigations)...that would allow the government "ongoing" access to membership information.

Apologies for the paranoia, but Apple, Google, FB etc. really did some fancy footwork with thier public statements and I just want to be clear.


Why nobody by the ATS Mods has answered for this really interesting question by User Indigo5 so far?

Facebook, Yahoo, Google and others face fight for reputations

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by infinitymindbox




Be assured that if Putin wants him, mr Snowden has an Antonov An 225 Mriya and two Mig 29 escort fighters waiting for him, provided he manages to make it to the Russia Consulate at Sun Hung Kai Centre, 30 Harbour Road, Room 2106 Hong Kong.

Alexey Pushkov, head of the Duma's international affairs committee and a vocal US critic, said on Twitter: "By promising asylum to Snowden, Moscow has taken upon itself the protection of those persecuted for political reasons. There will be hysterics in the US. They only recognise this right for themselves."

It would be interesting to see what happens if the Russians have indeed granted this man asylum.


In other news, this morning, The Speaker of the House called Mr. Snowden a "traitor".

I beg to differ, as Mr. Speaker voted without hesitation to make the Patriot Act permanent.

The real traitors are the ones in Congress, and the main stream media here in the United States.

Originally posted by supremecommander
It would be interesting to see what happens if the Russians have indeed granted this man asylum.


and the main stream media here in the United States.

Ehuum...you meant United BanksterStates of Obamania, didn´t you?

Originally posted by supremecommander
The real traitors are the ones in Congress, and the main stream media here in the United States.

The REAL traitors (in my humble opinion) are the corporates who *host* the system, mainly facebook and Google, who 'sell' and make available the data to the agencies while openly lying to their users and tell them their privacy is "very important" and deny knowledge about PRISM. I have reason to believe that PRISM was actually developed BY facebook in the first place.

There is mentioning of a system called PRISM which is a cloud/data collection and analysis system developed by facebook...years back. Now ask yourself how the NSA has so convenient access to this data?

The NSA is using THEIR (Google, facebook, AOL, MS etc.) data/systems/servers, not vice versa. The documents clearly point out that the system "is hosted at corporate servers". In simple words: The system is RUNNING at facebook, Google etc...not somewhere at a NSA facility.

I wonder how long it will take the public until they actually realize WHAT is going on...