Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by KyrieEleison
reply to post by opethPA

 

An NDA should never silence an individual who is reporting a crime.

Apparently our current administration and their ilk disagree.

What's right is right, right?

Except when you get your clearance be it Secret or above you sign on for certain things. Depending on how compartmentalized it is that could include statements like "the unauthorized release of said information can and will be viewed as a federal crime"

Actually, the unauthorized release of the NDA information is pretty much always a federal crime. Even when it doesn't make sense, like the data's been blown into public. There have been books on the NYT best sellers list that we were warned we could not discuss or quote from, because the blown data was still actively NDAd.

What happens when you're read onto compartmentalized projects is, it adds in a whole new batch of USC codes that can be brought to bear, including a couple that say you can be tried and sentenced to death in a federal court with no jury and sealed records.

So basically, if they want, you can get the Star Chamber routine and end up tossed into a ditch, all legal. That only applies to certain categories of exposures but the list it does apply to is fairly comprehensive. They do make it clear to you when you are first read onto a project class, and they may or may not re-read the thing to you for each compartment and sub-project. Sometimes you only get the one and they waive the rest unless someone asks for death by slides.

@Kyrie, the trick is to make sure what you're blowing is actually a crime and not something you feel is immoral. e.g. if the NDA covers the president eating burnt babies for dinner it probably doesn't bind you. But if it covers something you just don't like and feel is wrong, like 'enhanced interrogation techniques', those may be distasteful but not unlawful, in which case you exposing it (just an example) would be illegal and punishable.

It's sort of like his statements in an article I read about the Army - he thought it would be an assignment to free the innocent movie style and it disappointed him to discover that in the unit he wanted to join, he was being encouraged to think of them as an enemy. Well, duh. If you want to hold babies and build sewers and clinics, you can always apply for CA/PO, but even there you're going to be snooping, infiltrating and making friends with influential community members that you can later manipulate to the military's advantage, often in ways that is not beneficial to them in the long run. That is also distasteful but not unlawful.

There's a lot of dirty crap in the world that's not illegal. It's hard to KNOW a lot of times what's illegal and what just seems f-d up.

I'm not sure PRISM is technically illegal. It sucks but I'm not enough of a lawyer to know.

All that to say you can't go by your heart when you are dealing with this sort of thing. If you just think it's wrong and you mess up, you may have been right in a moral sense but you'll still end up on the wrong end of the stick.

QUESTION:
So, when this story broke (before Snowden's identity was revealed) I was following the comment board on cnn.com and it was pretty refreshing how many intelligent, anti-big govt spying comments there were.

Now, his identity is revealed and you go on the comment board and it's overwhelmingly negative against him and 'at least we're safe from the terrorist, I don't care if they do surveillance on me'. And the comments are piling up so fast that any good ones quickly get buried by this inane crap.

I have the feeling the DoD gave all it's employees the day to take a break from whatever they've been working on so they can troll these comment boards. Any thoughts on this?

*Sorry I can't make a new thread for this question, I'm new to this site.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
it clearly states that one must be eligible for a security clearance.

Do you know how long it takes to get one? Having to be eligible and actually getting one are two different things. I had to be eligible for a clearance to work for the Army on a 700 hour appointment. Never got one while working for them. You also cannot get a clearance as a minor, because you cannot engage in a binding contract. The federal government considers you to have your majority at 18, so if you're in the military you can get a clearance at 18. Not before, unless they declare your emancipation. It's a technicality, I never saw anyone actually do it.

So unless you've got some awfully old high schoolers, it ain't happening.

Consider that the DoJ is pursuing Snowden, I'd say he's pretty legit.

Unless that's what they want you to believe. Again, if you go poking amongst his exposed records and he's not on JPAS, Scattered Castles, the DoD service list, or was never at the locations he'd have to be at in order to be in SF training or whatnot, what would you think then? If the Army shows him as a private at Fort Bliss for the whole thing? Or a guard base instead of active Army?

Just saying I don't disbelieve him but some of it seems odd, and since the whole thing is odd it's a data point.

This is just smoke to move everyone away from the IRS scandal which is an impeachable abuse of using the government assets and taxpayers money to target political enemies

Originally posted by TrueBrit
My hat is officially off.

Its people like this man, who are prepared to act on thier belief in freedom and liberty, which make this planet worth living on. I salute him, and he will be in my thoughts and prayers.

If you have a faith, fellow members, please add your prayers to the massive sackful that should be said for this man, his safety, and the safety of his family.

Praying for this guy won't help! That's a form of inaction... Praying only makes the person saying the prayer feel better. Only actually doing things, taking real world action will help. Instead of praying, gather petitions. Write to your representative and have her ask questions in the house designed to stop the erosion of freedoms that he has uncovered and is protesting against.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Please do not feed the trolls.

Originally posted by Staroth
reply to post by Maluhia

 

I watched Snowden's video and read up on him.
He has been a lot of things for a man who was a mediocre student with a GED. In his interview he states "I had the authority to wire tap you, your accountant, a federal judge or even the President".
I don't think this is someone I would believe to be honest.

Lord knows there wouldn't be articles smearing him on the internet. Also, a GED means nothing. He did something with his life and made around 200k a year. A diploma is just a piece of paper that says you know what the system thinks you need to know before you turn 18. People change and grow as they age.

Just found this campaign speech from Obama in 2007 relating to this issue and figured I'd post it as it clearly illustrates what bs we were fed by Obama the candidate. Why does anyone believe anything this man says as president?

This (referring to Bush's admin) Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom.

That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary.

newsbusters.org...

Call me old fashioned, but wouldn't it be nice if a citizen exposes something illegal, that his own people/country would give him a safe harbour......

Originally posted by TheSpanishArcher
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

Helping what terrorists? Where? I see no one trying to kill us/spy on us/imprison us falsely except my own government.

Got fear?

It is 2013......and people are STILL afraid of the boogeyman (terrorists). You know, I understand the powerful, magical effort the elite's spell has on civilians. They use every tool in the book to subdue, and brainwash the populace.....but with the internet, in this day and age.....I can't believe there are STILL Americans willing to give up liberty and freedom, under the guise of "protection from terrorism".


Terrorism is a direct result of the pressure being applied to a person, or a group of people, over time. I'm not justifying terrorism in any way, shape or form.......but if anyone actually wants to "fight terrorism"....we should start with our foreign policy, NOT taking away our constitution and freedom.

I hope he gets away
He did the world a favor by showing them what the government does
now I am paranoid just to surf the internet

reply to post by infinitymindbox

now I am paranoid just to surf the internet

As someone earlier pointed out - maybe that's one of the reasons for this whole episode?!?!

Leading to "afraid to speak my mind, offer a dissenting opinion, disagree with a government official....."

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
Call me old fashioned, but wouldn't it be nice if a citizen exposes something illegal, that his own people/country would give him a safe harbour......

Speaking only for myself here, but as an American... I would honestly take a bullet for this man. He has given me a little hope for this nation. Now we just need more like him.

I pray for his safety....and our future.

Maybe it was the fluoride in my water...the mercury in my fillings...the fear of some possible terrifying repercussions for voicing dissent or even questioning the program.. Maybe it was because I was scraping along like I always did, so it made no difference to me anyhow...maybe it's because we're all going to die one day anyway...maybe its because the anxiety was proving to much to live with, so i just decided to stop caring...maybe it was because I knew there is no way you can win...maybe im a realist...maybe im a coward...maybe i saw the world as it is and maybe I didn't like it but didn't hate it enough to change it either...and maybe i know i couldn't change it anyhow...so why bother...maybe I knew society was too fractured, to full of individuals all chasing their own personal dreams and desires to ever come to togeather and unify as a real force for change...maybe its all these reasons and more that people just don't really care anymore.

So i rant on the internet, under a pseudonym...that says it all really.

reply to post by infinitymindbox


No doubt, right??
Heck, I haven't looked at raunchy internet porn all day.

Oh wait...

If I had to guess, I'd say I am at least 100K times more likely to die in a motor vehicle accident as I am to a "terrorist."

So -- no thanks. They can keep it, shove it or sit on it and spin. Frankly -- terrorists are less interesting to me as a threat than ghosts and or black magic. And I don't believe in those at all.

reply to post by Shark_Feeder


Well not sure how, but action through your representative would be a way I assume. I hope a plethora of people find it as easy enough to write a note to their rep asking for his safety as they would writing on internet forums

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Holy crap, look who it is.
I haven't seen you on here in a coon's age!

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by Shark_Feeder

 

Well not sure how, but action through your representative would be a way I assume. I hope a plethora of people find it as easy enough to write a note to their rep asking for his safety as they would writing on internet forums

I did just that before I even posted on this thread.

Not that I think the SOBs will listen to their "citizens".

reply to post by JayinAR


Hey JR! *hugs*
good to see you too ol bud


reply to post by Shark_Feeder


I suppose the option is a case through the courts. Having no clue on US legal system, One would hope the "people' can raise a claim against the government...which is a joke no doubt as it wouldn't make it past the first application