The illusion of the self.

Originally posted by bb23108
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Will is not the modification, it is the modifier.

But still, any sense of Will, is a conditional event or pattern, and therefore unnecessary

You cant separate yourself.from the will. Even if you were to temporarily suspend your own will, all consciousnesses are ultimately one consciousness, and the will of others is still your own. You can oppose the will of others, but only through indentity mechanisms.

It is not the self's will to oppose anything, but to give all wills to individuals. You use your own will as you want, but only to the extent that you dont oppose another's. Mostly this leaves your individualized self to only effect your interpretations of objects without actually changing them outright. But still, this is the power that is invested in you as an individual. What is happening is the will of the self.

reply to post by smithjustinb
I think it would be good for you to further elaborate on what you mean by the will.

I look at will as a function of the body-brain-mind, associated with attention, that seeks to control objects and others through knowledge (as the knower) and desire. However, attention is the root gesture of egoity, of separation or self-identity that apparently individuates from consciousness itself, and thereby precedes will.

Even so, attention, and therefore, will, and all such processes of observing, etc., are conditional patterns of the body-mind that are simply witnessed by consciousness or awareness itself.

reply to post by smithjustinb


If someone is on the seeking path and looking for answers or Truth, they admit they do not know who or what the Self is. Because if they did know, they wouldn't be still searching for it. If a seeker then says "I have free will. My self has free will", the words have no meaning at all.

Most of us are using words, that we ourselves, are still trying to find the meaning of. (eg. "Self", or "I" or "God" or "Universe").

So you can say "I have free will" or " I' don't have free will", it's all empty gibberish if you, yourself, are still trying to figure out what the Self is.

"I’m a man in search of his true self. How archetypically American can you get?

Everybody's looking for his true self. We’re all trying to fulfill ourselves, understand ourselves, get in touch with ourselves, get ahold of ourselves, face the reality of ourselves, explore ourselves, expand ourselves.

Ever since we dispensed with God, we’ve got nothing but ourselves to explain this meaningless horror of life. We’re all weekending at est or meditating for forty minutes a day or squatting on floors in a communal OM or locking arms in quasi-Sufi dances or stripping off the deceptions of civilized life and jumping naked into a swimming pool filled with other naked searchers for self.

Well, I think that true self, that original self, that first self, is a real, mensurate, quantifiable thing, tangible and incarnate. And I’m going to find the f**ker!"

- Edward Jessup, Ph.D.
(after several glasses of wine)
in Paddy Chayefsky's Altered States

P.S. He did too.

The self is the doer. The self is the seeker. You cant know the self by what it is, you can only know it by its function. This is important to understand. The individualities that we all know are only what the self has done, but not what the self is. When you go looking for what you are, you have no reference of information other than what the self has done.

The self is the power source of all this action which is of a quality that is conducive to the appearance of the forms here. It is not for you to know, but is the knower.

In silence and stillness, you become centered as the watcher who sees and feels the fiery emanation of forms from its being, amd you become very in tune with the things closest to the core of the self.. But it is still the emanation, the creation, being observed. You never see the emitter. You only ARE the emitter. You are subtle but you create it all.

Things move from order to chaos in this universe. From creator to creation.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by bb23108

 

Bingo!!!!! Grace itself plays a visit from the realms of what I meant when I said there is sooooooo much more to this all.

You hit the nail on the head.

I was once, about 5-6 years back, deeply established in/as Awareness, expanded, effulgent, vivid and due to the daily grind, lost the established sense of it and was back in egoic illusion. So im sitting at this philosophy meeting/debate I used to attend, and a humble Buddhist guy, who I've seen countless times and never thought anything much of, leaned over to whisper something that had to do with the presentation........well his awareness was SOOoooooooo expanded that he light mine up like a candle and I was back to be established as That.

Grace visited via the Holy Spirit after being baptized about a decade back. Sooooo much more to all this.

Thumbs up and star

Do you understand that there is a false annointing?