Former Canadian Defense Minister Paul Hellyer Questions 9/11

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by RomeByFire
What's up with you people and coming into every thread and comparing someone who is asking legitimate questions regarding 9/11 to someone who worships trees?

I didn't. I said being open-minded is not the same as being more credible, I presented tree-worship as an example of open-mindedness, and I said just because my neighbour worships trees, it doesn't mean he's more credible than people who don't.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why? Do you think people who worship trees aren't open-minded?

I still haven't seen any reason to believe Paul Hellyer is more credible than the people who disagree with him.

edit on 30/5/13 by Sankari because: typo...

I could absolutely care less about open-mindedness and/or trees.

This is a 9/11 forum. The key word you seem to miss in every point you make is "I."

You have a tight to your opinion, not to your own facts.

Oh, and for the guy in the OP? His credibility isn't a concern, the questions he's asking how we, are of concern.

But please, let us ignore the topic presented in the OP and instead shift focus to open-minded tree worshipers.

Why is so hard for you to knock off the personal attacks and instead address the topic at hand?

In another thread you compared to the WTC7 building to a building that was made out of wood.

So I'll ask you, and you'll probably just smear me again rather than answer my question, but what makes him not credible?

Originally posted by Urantia1111

Originally posted by RomeByFire

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by whatsecret
Before the debunkers come in here and start calling him crazy, let me say that I know he also believes in UFO's and to me that means that he is open minded individual and that makes me like him even more.

'Open minded' does not mean 'more credible', or even just 'credible.'

My neighbour worships trees. Clearly he is an open minded individual. But this does not make him more credible than people who do not worship trees.

What's up with you people and coming into every thread and comparing someone who is asking legitimate questions regarding 9/11 to someone who worships trees?

Who freakin' cares if OP calls the guy in the video open minded. It has NOTHING to do with the video. Yet you'll still cherry-pick at the OP (not what was in the OP) and talk about "my neighbor worships trees!"

And I said "you people" on purpose so now you have a reason to play woe is me about something unrelated to the OP and completely off topic.

I typically don't make these sort of comments but you typically make the sort of comments I mentioned, and it's ridiculous. Don't participate in the discussion if all you can offer is hypothetical tree worshipers.

What's up with them is that its their only defense. They can't credibly argue that an office fire can cause three steel skyscrapers to disintigrate into dust and fall straight down into their own footprints, so they instead tell you about their neighbor.

Every 9/11 thread gets derailed.

I've seen members (some in this thread) compare 9/11 to falling leaves, wood houses, tree worshiping neighbors, and probably some more. Not once do they address any real question, they deflect and fall back to their feeble fallacies in order to get under the skin and kill out a thread through pointless bickering (like this).

Sometime soon, very soon, I'm going to make a thread regarding 9/11. Put every misconstrued piece of 'evidence,' contradicting eyewitness reports, the maniacal logic in the OS, the whole nine yards.

I bet those same posters will jump right in to tell me that my some off topic crap that in no way, shape, or form has to so with the fateful events that took place on 9/11.

The trouble with 9/11 threads getting derailed is people keep feeding the trolls.

S&F

That video is from 2004; Hellyer has really deteriorated over the ensuing 9 years (as have I...). I was intrigued at his testimony during the UFO Disclosure Hearings recently but it's a shame he went off on a religious tangent.

So, if we can have a former Minister of Defense say we need open and true hearings on 9-11 and that the stand down was an obvious red flag, how come all this time has passed and still nothing has been done? What is really required here? I think every day I have the passing thought that 'we' just need to arrest Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld etc and try them in a citizen's court. How did we get to have a society where some people never answer for their egregious crimes and actually have bodyguards paid for by the rest of us, and other people are shot down in the street for 'looking at the cops funny'. What in hell is going on in this world? It's as if we need to storm dozens of Bastilles all at once.

lets start by looking at who exactly Paul Heller really is

Paul Heller

He is correct to say that he was once high up in government however that was in the 1960's since then he has fallen out with his old political party and since created his own the party the Canadian Action Party . He and his party are very anti-America, they fear a American takeover of Canada and oppose any American influence in Canada for example they oppose NAFTA and FTAA. that was in the 1960's since then he has fallen out with his old political party and since created his own the.

like the OP said he has also dabbled in UFOlogy

Regardless he dose ask some good questions, the first one being

Why a War on Terrorism?

This is a very good question, Bush was a idiot to declare war on terrorism, its just a stupid concept you cannot have a war on Terrorism no more than you can have a war on drugs or cancer.

Bush used this as a sill catch phase, it was more of a umbrella term to describe a series of military operations against terrorists.

he does make another good point about about terrorism being a police and intelligence matter as opposed to a military matter. However when fighting international terrorism as opposed to domestic terrorism the police and intelligence apparatus have very limited jurisdiction and it is inevitably going to become a military matter. This is not the first time a military model of counter terrorism as been used and it wont be the last.

Why did the intelligence fail?

This isn't going to make me many friends on this thread, but read the 9/11 commission report, it is made very very clear just how poor intelligence change was between all the various intelligence agencies before 9/11. If you cant stomach yourself to go and read that "OS propaganda" then go read Ghost Wars by Steve coll, again it perfectly illustrates how and why there was such a monumental intelligence failure.

Why did Bush sit in School?

I here this question asked quite a lot and i have never really understood it.

Before Bush went into that class room he knew that something was going on at the World Trade Center, initial reports were coming in saying there had been a small plane crash. When the second plane hit, Andrew Card, Chief of Staff went in and whispered into Bush's ear "A second plane has hit the second tower,America is under attack" (Llink)

and then bush sat about like a idiot.

why did he really do that?

i don't know

it was stupid but it docent actually add anything to the quest for 9/11 truth. if anything one could say it is the opposite of what we would expect had Bush had advanced knowledge of what was about to happen. If he did know it was about to happen then he would have had a response prepared. But he clearly didnt because he sat about listing to a bunch of kids tell a story.

What about American Air Defense?

he asks a couple of questions in relation to this such as why did they not have fighters why did it take a hour and a half to shut down air space.

well we know that NEADs was alerted 9 minutes after the first hijacked plane but no notice of the others because of the very confusing picture that emerged over American airspace that day. off the top of my head i cannot recall how long it took for fighters to be in the air but I know they were in the air during the attack but at about 0930 there was a F-15 over Manhattan

American Airspace was ordered to become ATC-Zero at about 0945, about 40 minutes after the second plane hit and it became clear this was an act of terrorism

Why was the Bin Laden family aloud to leave when airspace was locked down?

I am starting to run out of space so here is a quick link

www.911myths.com...

to finish yes there are some questions, lots of questions about what happened before 9/11 and after but people should be researching these questions and seeking out the answers rather than pointing a random YouTube video of someone else asking the questions.

its just kind of pointless.

big deal, some guy who was a big shot in the Canadian government 40 years ago has some questions about 9/11, so what, so do i, so does everyone.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

He and his party are very anti-America, they fear a American takeover of Canada and oppose any American influence in Canada for example they oppose NAFTA and FTAA

So let me get this straight... When people prefer to have a government free of any American influence, that makes them anti-American? Really? I guess I'm anti-Canadian and I'm anti-Mexican and anti all other countries. I don't want any foreign influence in my country .

I got no comment about the rest of your usual nonsense like (Bush was an idiot and everybody is really really really incompetent.