'I didn't think of Iraqis as humans,' says U.S. soldier.

Name calling is an attempt to dehumanize the adversary. Ever wonder why bullies don't feel guilty? Pay attention when people call other people names. There is a lot of valuable information there.

Well the I guess its a good thing you're in prison.

Its the Army's fault really for lowering recruiting standards to meet the numbers needed for the surge. Many were not properly vetted. Today many of these crap sacks are either in jail of being kicked out for other reasons.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

The Military has a Very Uncanny Knack for Programming the Troops.

Unfortunately you can NEVER Expect that the Military will take any responsibility.

Though I am Not condoning the Murdering Rapists actions. When Found guilty, they probably just need to take him and drop him off in the middle of the town of that family and leave him for dead.

Interesting because you are speaking out of our rear end. What programming are you speaking of? If it is to become a warrior; it is a much older practice than anything we can dish out today. If it is to nationality. on State-side training, the message is clear to not discriminate.

Now if we get to the war-zone, things get different. Bullets flying, convoys blowing up, etc, etc, your view point changes and naturally one develops a disdain for those you are fighting (rightly or wrongly).

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I would more than likely think that the Programming goes clear back to the beginning of Military History. At least an organized military anyways.

I also supsect that on an individual basis it starts in Basic Training.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum


No doubt that their is programming to some effect. There has to be in the basic terms. Even then, it isn't always effective. Firing on a piece of paper is easy. I shot targets all day long. Knowing that their is another human being on the other end is different and no amount of "programming" (at least at the grunt level) will ever overcome that.

That is why I and you speak to reaching back to the beginning of human history and organized warfare.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Now if we get to the war-zone, things get different. Bullets flying, convoys blowing up, etc, etc, your view point changes and naturally one develops a disdain for those you are fighting (rightly or wrongly).

I see your point, staring through your sights at the enemy staring down his sights.

But he Raped a Civilian, a FOURTEEN year old, Murdered Her, and Murdered her Sister and Parents.

Not Soldiers.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
But he Raped a Civilian, a FOURTEEN year old, Murdered Her, and Murdered her Sister and Parents.

And this isn't confined to a war zone....or soldiers...so I am not seeing the connection of how it is a "programming" issue. People do despicable things; soldier, medic, doctor, teacher, parent, school-bus driver, etc, etc. How we can pin it on "programming" when it comes to soldiers, and just society for everyone else is what bothers me.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
People do despicable things; soldier, medic, doctor, teacher, parent, school-bus driver, etc, etc. How we can pin it on "programming" when it comes to soldiers, and just society for everyone else is what bothers me.

We can't of course, it is being offered as a possible reason concerning Soldiers.
Because this Thread is about a US Soldier who made statements resembling Conditioning.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
People do despicable things; soldier, medic, doctor, teacher, parent, school-bus driver, etc, etc. How we can pin it on "programming" when it comes to soldiers, and just society for everyone else is what bothers me.

We can't of course, it is being offered as a possible reason concerning Soldiers.
Because this Thread is about a US Soldier who made statements resembling Conditioning.

Understandable, but how do we narrowly examine a practice that has been exhibited outside of such proposed "conditioning"? There is no control factor. Only what some will think when it comes to the military or service members as being conditioned, controlled and programmed.

The fact that such behavior is exhibited outside of those constraints, puts into question claims of "programming" in my opinion. It doesn't invalidate it, but it cannot be taken at face value.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

The fact that such behavior is exhibited outside of those constraints, puts into question claims of "programming" in my opinion. It doesn't invalidate it, but it cannot be taken at face value.

I agree, the Sample Size is too small.

With that said, I believe the Conditioning-Programming is coming from a Much Larger Scope than Military, to a Much Larger Audience.

You and I both Participate in threads discussing Muslim Peoples and Countries.

You and I both see the Blind Hatred and Fear in these Threads.

Answer me this,,,,, Why was there no Discussion of Muslims 15, 20 years ago?

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
You and I both Participate in threads discussing Muslim Peoples and Countries.

You and I both see the Blind Hatred and Fear in these Threads.

Answer me this,,,,, Why was there no Discussion of Muslims 15, 20 years ago?

Even then, it cannot be answered. Maybe such discussions were taking place but with the proliferation of the Internet and such sites as these, the discussion is now more open and free (a good thing, regardless of the subject matter).

So you cannot say there were "no" discussions of Muslims regarding time period. Programming and conditioning take place, as does pushing of "news", there is no doubt about that.

The media shift is noticeable, but that is different than say the military's focus on its "programming". That "programming" if it were to exist, doesn't know color or creed only what is defined as the enemy; if such exists.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
, but that is different than say the military's focus on its "programming". That "programming" if it were to exist,

My friend, no person was born an Accountant, no person was born a Baker, they were Taught.

No person was born a Soldier...
Excellent Hour worth of Viewing, Filmed in 1982, but some things never change, like Programming.

reply to post by gladtobehere


It's ok, they don't think of you as human either. We're descended from pigs and monkies to them.

He should think like that to prevent getting crazy from killing and raping people.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

It's ok, they don't think of you as human either. We're descended from pigs and monkies to them.

No , every one is responsible for his action.

And don't play the victim card please.

Because you can not deflect the destruction of a country by telling how you think they think.

reply to post by mideast


On this soldier I agree, combat pros should have killed this guy out there and saved the Army the embarrassment.Perhaps a bit old school but that was a common thing in US battlefields if the unit catches them doing it. Then again we were a bit more ruthless as cold warriors.
I never compare what others say I am I already know,we are ALL the same race with lousy leadership.

reply to post by mideast


I wouldn't pay attention to anything lonewolf says...he just made a statement on another thread that the tornadoes down south were most likely due to a gay parade.... It was God's wrath...so saying such idiotic stuff disqualifies him/her from ever being taken seriously.

No excuse...when was the last time anyone here hated another person and looked upon their children with evil intentions?

Have you ever thought I hate those people so much...I think I will rape their child? Of course not...only pedophiles think that way,,,and do whatever it takes to not get caught...so he killed her family in hopes of no one ever finding out.


Anyone making excuses for this tool..really needs to take a hard look at themselves.

Wow, how much brain washing does it take to end up with a mindset like that?!
I once met someone who had done a tour in Iraq and said he loved nothing more than seeing 'pink mist'
It literally excited him, I walked away disgusted and haven't spoken too him since, it completely amazes me how people can think like that, let alone genuinely enjoy killing.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

It's ok, they don't think of you as human either. We're descended from pigs and monkies to them.

Actually, I've worked with many Iraqi refugees in my vocation, and they are quite divided in their opinions of Saddam Hussein and George Bush and the war in general. Some hate Hussein and love Bush, and some feel the exact opposite. They are an exceptionally friendly and welcoming people who will just about give you the shirt off their back, and will not judge the people for the actions of their government. Plenty feel that Australia is a great country which welcomes them as citizens.

Most of the Iraqis I have worked with are Assyrian Christians, who are a persecuted minority in Iraq, who unfortunately cop it from both Shia and Sunni Muslims. Saddam Hussein was fairly accepting of the Christian minority and this is why he still has a lot of support from the Assyrians who often say that life was a lot better under Saddam. When Iraq was stable it had a very modern economy and plenty of people lived very well - petrol was cheaper than just about anywhere - I think I was told you could fill your petrol tank up for about $2 US.

I've seldom heard a negative comment about Australian people from the Iraqis I've had the pleasure to work with. They can be scathing about the Australian Liberal Government under the leadership of John Howard, which was part of the 'Coalition of the Willing'. Not all, but a vocal number (Iraqi people are very forthright, not shy in the least) wonder why Australia was involved. Those who feel differently and support the invading forces feel that they were promised a lot, but feel somewhat jilted, believing the occupying forces ultimately delivered little, creating artificial safe havens which will only further exacerbate sectarian violence when Iraq is fully governed and policed by Iraqis.

Just about every Iraqi male adult I have met has done military service, some being veterans of the Iran-Iraq war, some of the first Gulf War, some of the second, and some of 2 or even 3 out of 3 (as well as various other military activities such as fighting Kurdish militia).

I am amazed at how gentle some of these military veterans are, despite the brutal wars they have lived through. One ex-soldier I know has major health issues due to his body being riddled with shrapnel.

One thing I've noticed about nearly every Iraqi I have met is that they are extremely happy to be in a safe country, and none of them have any desire to go back and live in their home country. It is extremely unsafe and full of sectarian violence, and no-one is optimistic of any change for the better anytime soon.