Spirituality & Becoming What We Aren’t.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

And the books that have been saying the opposite?

What about them? That only proves that only 1 side is right. Which side is right then?

On top of that, of all those name's you mentioned, I don't recall any of them having claimed to have penetrated into the depths of Human Nature and Absolute reality, finding the source of thought and so forth.

What is the Philosophy of LesMisanthrope? What are you proposing then, if all of us are wrong. How are you going to save the world with your view? Does the world even need saving? Have you seen the children in Africa dying from starvation? The murders in the inner cities over money, drugs, babies dying from stray bullets, the cancers and diseases, the wars, etc etc....... Is it all supposed to remain the way it is?

I was once Buddhist, I was once a mystic, an ascetic, never a platonist but I spent years studying Plato (who would laugh at the idea of knowing what happens after death)—I've read all their literature.

I Once claimed in High School I was a Buddhist, cause I thought it was cool and some of the premises made sense. It was in my early 30's that I realized I was a fool then to claim such a thing and knew nothing of Buddhism. Anyone can claim to wear the titles/labels that you say you once were, and not have any direct experiential reference about, what it's all about.

Someone who is a Mystic, for example, doesn't chose to be one. The Awakenings and penetrations into the nature of reality....Existence and Grace chose to bestow Mysticism on a person, not the other way around. And then, after that, once a Mystic, always a Mystic. There is no turning back.

There's two sides to every coin. Why not try the whole coin?

Because not all things are coins. Not all sides are true, right, Absolute.

Is rape good and bad? War good and bad? Murder good and bad? Suffering good and bad? Molestation good and bad?

Originally posted by dominicus
I Once claimed in High School I was a Buddhist, cause I thought it was cool and some of the premises made sense.

When I was in high school, I used to call myself an existential phenomenologist, and I got a real kick out of that, too. I was the only non-religious person in the school, and this was before the time of the internet, so no-one could readily look up what it meant.

Someone who is a Mystic, for example, doesn't chose to be one. The Awakenings and penetrations into the nature of reality....Existence and Grace chose to bestow Mysticism on a person, not the other way around. And then, after that, once a Mystic, always a Mystic. There is no turning back.

In my case, I agree that it was not a conscious choice to find myself on a mystic path, though I have made decisions in the past to turn my back on it, only to return some time later. All the same, I suspect there are plenty of examples of other people who do not fit the "once a mystic, always a mystic" category.

reply to post by dominicus

What about them? That only proves that only 1 side is right. Which side is right then?

Let me guess....your side? This isn't about picking a team here. This is a discussion, not war.

On top of that, of all those name's you mentioned, I don't recall any of them having claimed to have penetrated into the depths of Human Nature and Absolute reality, finding the source of thought and so forth.

What?!?! What else do you think they were talking about?

What is the Philosophy of LesMisanthrope? What are you proposing then, if all of us are wrong. How are you going to save the world with your view? Does the world even need saving? Have you seen the children in Africa dying from starvation? The murders in the inner cities over money, drugs, babies dying from stray bullets, the cancers and diseases, the wars, etc etc....... Is it all supposed to remain the way it is?

I am not promoting a philsophy. I am pointing at those who sit and do nothing but sit. I am pointing at dishonesty and double-standards. I am pointing at the naivety, gullibility and credulity. I am pointing at the pretenders and the self-despisers. I am pointing at those who hate the world, their own body, and thus everyone else's. I am pointing at the salesmen and pushers. I am pointing at your philsophy.

I Once claimed in High School I was a Buddhist, cause I thought it was cool and some of the premises made sense. It was in my early 30's that I realized I was a fool then to claim such a thing and knew nothing of Buddhism. Anyone can claim to wear the titles/labels that you say you once were, and not have any direct experiential reference about, what it's all about.

It's no longer high-school is it. I spent years in India, China and Tibet eating nothing but rice and penetrating inward with gurus. Yes I know what you're going to say: that I am of the wrong frequency or not spiritually in tune. I've heard it all.

Someone who is a Mystic, for example, doesn't chose to be one. The Awakenings and penetrations into the nature of reality....Existence and Grace chose to bestow Mysticism on a person, not the other way around. And then, after that, once a Mystic, always a Mystic. There is no turning back.

Everyone can have a mystical experience. I've had it skydiving, snowboarding, surfing, fighting, making love, living in nature, through narcotics, physical exertion, doing meditation and so forth. Everyone's a mystic—life is a mystical experience.

Because not all things are coins. Not all sides are true, right, Absolute.

Only Sith speak in absolutes.

It is a damn shame when someone thinks there is a spirituality for every man. Each person's spirituality is his own, no one else has any casual rights to it. Look at this very thread. Not a similiar definition of spirituality in the whole bunch. Now that is beautiful.

Thanks for the anti-thesis dominicus; everyone should have one.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

I am pointing at those who sit and do nothing but sit.

You think they just sit there waiting for something to happen?
Or are you saying that they have some sort of moral obligation to be helping people?

It's no longer high-school is it. I spent years in India, China and Tibet eating nothing but rice and penetrating inward with gurus. Yes I know what you're going to say: that I am of the wrong frequency or not spiritually in tune. I've heard it all.

Who's more 'in-tune' than anyone else? We are all the same being, appearing separate. Yours is the only consciousness and so is mine. There is no difference. Anyone who has sold you that 'out of tune' crap is just straight-up lying.

Everyone can have a mystical experience. I've had it skydiving, snowboarding, surfing, fighting, making love, living in nature, through narcotics, physical exertion, doing meditation and so forth. Everyone's a mystic—life is a mystical experience.

Yes, life is very mystical. Life is the biggest mystery. It can be experienced, but it cannot be known. God can be experienced, but it cannot be known. God and life are both different words for the same thing: utter mystery.

Only Sith speak in absolutes.

It is a damn shame when someone thinks there is a spirituality for every man. Each person's spirituality is his own, no one else has any casual rights to it. Look at this very thread. Not a similiar definition of spirituality in the whole bunch. Now that is beautiful.

I absolutely agree. The path is different for all people, everyone's search is completely unique. But the experience... that is absolutely unchanging. The experience is God revealing God to Godself. It is shattering of all apparent separation, when the 'I' dissolves and all that is left is the universe.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Let me guess....your side?

What does that even mean? My Side? If I am telling you, that you can go to Niagara Falls and experience the Majesty, what does that have to do with sides?

This isn't about picking a team here. This is a discussion, not war.

What does that have to do with anything? Of course its not a war. Its about what is truth. What is right. Why are we here. Is Enlightenment and the Absolute, real and things that can be experienced? Does God exist? Since some people remember pre-existing prior to the body, and the majority don't, what are the implications?

Is rape and molestation bad or good?

There's two sides to every coin. Why not try the whole coin?

What are the two sides to the coins of rape, molestation, murder, revenge, etc?

What?!?! What else do you think they were talking about?

For the most part, all of these folks here:

And the books that have been saying the opposite? Heraclitus? Epicurus? Lucretius? Spinoza? Bacon? Machiavelli? Descartes? Aristotle? Schopenhaur? Nietszche? Hawking? James? Freud? Russel? Wittgenstein? Derrida? Foucault? Heidegger? Mill? Hume? Locke? Hobbes? Dewey? Diderot? Santayana? Marx?

Have written volumes and volumes of books about thoughts, ideas, theories, systems, abstractions, etc.

Buddha, Jesus, Shankara, Maharshi, Nisargadatta, Anadi, etc ........have provided blueprints to become complete, Enlightened, to reach the direct experience of the Absolute Truth.

If you think that the direct Experience of the Absolute state is the same as volumes of abstractions, you've got to be kidding me. Thomas Aquinas (A theologian) also wrote volumes of abstractions like all those name's you mentioned, and after he experienced the Absolute, he said that everything he ever wrote is like straw to the Wind.

All those name's you mentioned, all books, are straw men compared to the direct experience.

I am not promoting a philsophy. I am pointing at those who sit and do nothing but sit. I am pointing at dishonesty and double-standards. I am pointing at the naivety, gullibility and credulity. I am pointing at the pretenders and the self-despisers. I am pointing at those who hate the world, their own body, and thus everyone else's. I am pointing at the salesmen and pushers.

Ahhhhh, ok, I got it. Your philosophy is one of pointing out all others. Pointing and judging.

I am pointing at your philsophy.

Misnomer. My Philosophy is direct experience of the Absolute Truth prior to any philosophies, thoughts, abstractions, books, etc. The built in self-defense mechanism, is that it is prior to everything and anything that can be said or thought of it, yet is directly accessible by all. Therefore, by it's very nature, it itself is not a philosophy, but a direct experience/knowingness/Beingness

Your gonna have a bad day, because your then pointing at Jesus, Buddha, God, Infinity, Existence, Soul, the Best of The Best Squared......

It's no longer high-school is it. I spent years in India, China and Tibet eating nothing but rice and penetrating inward with gurus. Yes I know what you're going to say: that I am of the wrong frequency or not spiritually in tune. I've heard it all.

What did you get out of all that? Did you discover the nature of your own Awareness? Of Being? The Source of Thought? The Source of Love? The State of no 'I'? Or was it just a fun trip?

Only Sith speak in absolutes.

Since you just made an absolute statement, I guess you too are now a Sith. Welcome brother!!!

It is a damn shame when someone thinks there is a spirituality for every man.

There is. You're saying it here in the very next thread:

Each person's spirituality is his own, no one else has any casual rights to it.

Look at this very thread. Not a similar definition of spirituality in the whole bunch.

Actually, there are similar definitions. Itsnowagain and HarryTZ have both seen and experienced that inherently, the thinker of thoughts is not who we truly are.

Spirituality has universalities in it. The opening of the Third eye, the Light of Consciousness, the Source of Thought, the Soul, and various other aspects are all Universal and are things that a person will come across in most spiritual systems and depending on their maturity and level of experience and understanding.

Your own philosophy becomes self evident in your posts

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
It is a damn shame when someone thinks there is a spirituality for every man. Each person's spirituality is his own, no one else has any casual rights to it. Look at this very thread. Not a similiar definition of spirituality in the whole bunch. Now that is beautiful.

Each person may approach the truth in a variety of ways given their own psycho-physical peculiarities - but Truth or Reality Itself is not changed because of this. The Unconditional is not affected by the ever-changing nature of conditions, so realizing Reality will ultimately be the same, albeit different stages of realization may very well be reported, as well as different ways of expressing it. But even so, the esoteric anatomy of man is consistent - just like the physical anatomy of man is. So various phenomena are certainly similar enough to account for the process.

What dominicus is speaking about on his "How To" thread (the link was not working earlier, by the way), is an excellent and easy to understand summary of various mystical traditions in terms of ascending through and beyond the structures of the body-mind, etc. This is a valid process that has been thoroughly documented by many realizers and practitioners - to varying degrees of realization, recognition, and expression. (I have already expressed some things that I don't agree with about such an inward approach, but that is not the subject of this post.)

LesMis, as you must know, there is a vast library regarding esoteric anatomy, spiritual experience, and transcendence that can be compared and found to be extremely similar between the reports of Western mystics and Eastern mystics, as well as, various teachings on non-dualism.

You can dismiss all this evidence as simply more hopeful imaginings of mankind, but to those of us for whom this understanding is at least recognizable as truth in our own lives, such corroboration by true spiritual realizers is certainly welcomed - and very often necessary!

In truth, Reality Itself is necessary to grant absolute Realization - how could it be otherwise? No ego is going to bootstrap itself into realization of the Absolute Unconditional Reality! Nor is any ego going to catapult oneself into Reality through some kind of magic elixir, drug, or any other conditional means. It simply cannot work that way - there is no taking heaven by storm, so to speak.

Reality realization requires self-transcendence always in the context of Reality Itself, neither strategically inward-oriented nor outward-oriented. However, this does not mean that so-called inward experiences do not happen - that would be like saying no outward experiences ever happen. They obviously do - it's just that NONE of them are the Truth or Reality Itself.

reply to post by bb23108

Thanks for that reply. Spot on. Couldn't have said it any other way myself. We understand each other to a very high degree.

By the way the how to thread in my sig is working for me. Sometimes it takes a while to load because of all the pics, links, YouTube vids on page 1

reply to post by dominicus
Thanks!

Okay, I see the link now - to the right of the title. It is hardly visible on the grey background on my computer, and I thought the link was embedded within the yellow title itself, not next to it.

It certainly is interesting that esoteric experiences can be mapped relative to the esoteric anatomy of the body-mind, as well as the understanding or realization expressed by the spiritual adepts/practitioners of those experiences and traditions. And that very similar experiences have been recorded in traditions that would likely have not even known of the others' existence in those ancient times, only adds to the validity of such texts.

reply to post by dominicus

Your gonna have a bad day, because your then pointing at Jesus, Buddha, God, Infinity, Existence, Soul, the Best of The Best Squared......

If you could explain how it was possible to point at nothings I would get started right away. Tell me when and where to begin.

reply to post by bb23108

you can dismiss all this evidence as simply more hopeful imaginings of mankind, but to those of us for whom this understanding is at least recognizable as truth in our own lives, such corroboration by true spiritual realizers is certainly welcomed - and very often necessary!

You are right bb—absolutely. There is something hopeful in it, I admire that, and I would agree hope is a necessary part of life.

But I don't dismiss it. I am acknowledging it. Spirituality manifests everywhere—in myself, in my loved ones, in my friends, in intellectual circles, in the media, Oprah, the internet—and I'm looking directly it. But all I hear is chatter. I never see any spirituality outside the kindness of a human being, outside the laughter of a child, the calm satisfaction of a dying old man, the connection of holding a loved one, the smell of a damp forest, and the creative powers within. I'm simply expressing what I see, and using overly negative and verbose language to paint it a certain way, in different hues so speak, simply to offer another view of it. I'm not expressing a way of life, only the reflection of a distorted mirror.


Many of you have stood up for your spiritualities in quite good form. I would assume your convictions remain stronger than ever.

Thanks for taking a look everyone.

*cue dramatic music.

*EXIT

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Your gonna have a bad day, because your then pointing at Jesus, Buddha, God, Infinity, Existence, Soul, the Best of The Best Squared......

If you could explain how it was possible to point at nothings I would get started right away. Tell me when and where to begin.

So Jesus(and his teachings) is Nothing? Buddha(and his teachings) is nothing? All the systematic blueprints provided by various historic Mystics is Nothings?

That sure was anti-climatic, considering back on page 9, I asked you a lot of questions you never got to. It seems that when the shoe is on the other foot, and we're pointing fingers at your philosophy of finger pointing, you flee or surmount to single sentence replies.

Oh well. I guess we'll meet again at the next spirituality circle-jerk thread. Take care brother. See you soon

Among people who have glanced at Truth, before maturing into it and being grounded FIRMLY into it, there is a burning desire to communicate it. To create a new philosophy about it. To alas, be the chosen one who can make others understand. Not only does the ultimate Truth, being transmuted and cut down into form via language and logic, become meaningless blather, it eventually becomes self-delusion, to those unaware of that particular kind of karma.

This type of spiritual/philosophical arm wrestling has been going on for centuries. Yet, every philosophy and inconclusive scientific theory piled up together, doesn't amount to a hill of beans. You still are asking the same question.

To make matters worse, we have the thousands of newly awakened people, whom upon having a glimpse of Truth, set about spreading new versions of old philosophical nonsense and belief systems. This goes on and on and on.

In actuality, nobody knows anything worth knowing. If you're sitting on a pile of philosophical explanations about God, your life or the Universe, yet still find yourself asking the same old questions and suffering the same old things....that's the seeker hamster wheel I'm referring to.

99% of us on this board, are trapped in this cycle. Humanity itself, has been trapped in this cycle for thousands of years. Each person, despite access to limitless knowledge and philosophies, have yet to find the answer that stops ALL questions. As a collective, we are foolishly following each other off a cliff, with scientists, religious nuts, and self proclaimed philosophers leading the way.



'Plato's Cave' and this clip might shine light on what I'm attempting to describe.



And I like the symbology in this animated version of 'Plato's Cave'

reply to post by Visitor2012


I must say, I think I can relate to what you say the most.

I hope I can become this person, because for conscious looking at earth is temporary and I don't understand. That is not a happy thing.