Tesla Pays Off Government Loan Nine Years Early

I'm going to do something I never ever imagined doing on ATS - post a link to a (legitimate) story on FOX News:

Tesla pays off government loan nine years early

Nyeeeeeeewwwww....that felt dirty.

OK, actually this is just a recycled AP article, but the fact that FOX is actually publishing it, instead of figuring out how to burn it and hide the evidence is pretty astonishing. That's because Faux has of course viciously attacked any government push for clean energy - usually by repeating the word "Solyndra" over and over and over again.

The funny thing about the clean energy loans however is that despite the Solyndra "scandal" (yawn), these loans have largely been an overall big success. The article above even points this out:

The $34 billion loan portfolio has seen several high-profile defaults, including solar panel maker Solyndra, plus a potential default by electric car maker Fisker Automotive.

But the Energy Department said in a statement that losses to date amount to 2 percent of the portfolio, or about $680 million. The department said it has helped to start 19 new clean-energy power plants that have added enough solar, wind and geothermal generating capacity to power a million homes.

Consider how this 2 percent stacks up against typical portfolios in old fashioned free-market venture capitalism, where the default rates are much, MUCH higher:

The Venture Capital Secret: 3 Out of 4 Start-Ups Fail

And in case anyone wants to still raise a stink about the 680 million anyway, bear in mind the DoE, like any sensible investor who understands the high risks of venture capital, prepared ahead for a given amount of loss. In fact they budgeted for 2.4 BILLION dollars of it. They are now projected to come in severely under that:

Review of the loan portfolio suggests total defaults are likely ultimately to be in the range $400 - $800 million dollars, or about one quarter the amount projected and budgeted for. Based on a reasonable assessment of outstanding portfolio financial profile and risks, the DOE loan program can therefore rationally only be viewed as a big success.

Source


But anyway, back to the article at hand. I'm still pretty shocked I found a link to this on FOX News when I googled it, so perhaps I owe them some kudos...but probably not, considering as recently as a month and a half ago their talking head sock puppets were still doing what they do best:

Bill O’Reilly smears Tesla Motors with 2011 financial data

So it's quite outrageous to see the sudden turn around. Check out the following video for the explicit contrast. The best part is how much they've suddenly forgotten Tesla even received any government loans. Now it's just a great story about a homegrown American car company apparently:





...and PS to those who would still prefer to spew Bill O'Reilly style hate all over the electric car - The Tesla Model S recently received the highest score EVER on Consumer Reports:

Tesla Model S outscores every other car in Consumer Reports ratings

Hopefully this will open peoples eyes about electric cars. They could easily serve all the needs for a good 85% of the populations needs. By all rights we should have had these kind of cars for a few decades now.

Originally posted by buster2010
By all rights we should have had these kind of cars for a few decades now.

Too bad not everyone can afford 90k to get one

Still, it's great to see a really good electric car.

Tesla has some great looking cars and the specs are impressive. I'm ordering a model S performance fully loaded, she's just under 110k USD not counting shipping since I do not live in the US. Smooth, clean, quiet with a sharp design, my kind of car.

Great to hear that they paid off the loans early. The only ones not happy are the oil companies. I'll shed a tear for them as I pass the petrol station...then again maybe not.

reply to post by mc_squared


I'm equally surprised, but I feel like it was a slip of the tongue for FOX. I doubt they will continue talking about the success and probably try to paint it as a commie car. Republicans in a few states are trying to block sales of the vehicles. In North Carolina this bill popped up in direct response to Tesla.

Great thread

I see they are planing a 3rd gen version of the car that will be a lot lower than the 90k price tag. That's good as the lower the price, the more people can afford it, and the more that can afford it, the higher the demand I would think.

Still, even the 3rd gen will more than likely be very pricey and hard for many to afford, but it's a step in the right direction. What would help is to diverse the models, such as a much lower priced "no frills" version. If they can offer a version with a price tag of under 30k, I think we'd see a massive demand for it.

Until then, only the wealthy or well off are going to be able to afford a car that costs almost as much as a house in some places.

Originally posted by theMediator

Originally posted by buster2010
By all rights we should have had these kind of cars for a few decades now.

Too bad not everyone can afford 90k to get one

Still, it's great to see a really good electric car.

No the first electric cars didn't cost anywhere near 90K. Here's a video on them.

Originally posted by theMediator

Too bad not everyone can afford 90k to get one

Still, it's great to see a really good electric car.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember but, back when pocket calculators first came out, they were over $100 for a decent one like those made by Texas Instruments. Nowadays, it almost cost more to replace the battery than it does to replace the calculator. Go figure!

Rest assured, the cost will come down with time.

reply to post by mc_squared


F&S for the OP and the expose' of Fox News hypocrisy.

I know how much it hurts to use a FOX News article to prove a point and I feel for you, really I do. On the other hand, sometimes the only way to convince their minions that facts really do matter, is to show them what it looks like when their messiah of news networks has to eat their own words. Even then, most of them will just claim that it's a fluke.

It's common knowledge that Fox News fought and won, in court, for the right to force their reporters to lie on air. As far as I'm concerned, just based on that fact alone, it should be enough to have them reclassified as a propaganda network.

P.S. Hooray for Tesla Motors!

reply to post by Kali74


Oi... why does this not surprise me coming from the same state that introduced legislation to ban people from acknowledging sea level rise?

The rats in public office of course I'm not at all surprised by, but what I'll never understand is the sheeps that vote them in.

How are people this obtuse that they still don't see the obviously-obvious agenda?

Banning the sale of electric cars, banning climate science, while getting all your campaign contributions from oil money - and yet the FOX News junkies still sit here and tell themselves the scientists are the ones politicizing everything, and these plutocrats are just protecting them from "the liberal agenda".

reply to post by Flatfish


Yup, even now you can get the most basic Model S for 60k - which is still of course very high, but not pie-in-the-sky luxury supercar high.

And indeed the word around town is that the next Gen Tesla will be a direct competitor to BMW's 3-series, which happens to be the car I drive now, so believe me I'm paying very close attention to this. Already saving for one basically


Only a matter of time before battery technology gets up-to-snuff and electric cars in general become totally affordable. People need to remember just how much they'll end up saving on gas too. A full charge on a Chevy Volt costs about a dollar.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by mc_squared

 

I'm equally surprised, but I feel like it was a slip of the tongue for FOX. I doubt they will continue talking about the success and probably try to paint it as a commie car. Republicans in a few states are trying to block sales of the vehicles. In North Carolina this bill popped up in direct response to Tesla.

Wow - yeah, NC has gone a bit out of control now that they've become completely red with a republican governor and a majority in congress. My wife and I are always talking about moving - it's getting scary here.

Anyhow, yes, great thread - I think this is a microcosm of what is wrong with the Obama administration - they have a communications problem, and seem to have had one from day one. The extremely vocal (belligerent?) minority drowns out many accomplishments the administration has made and that the public largely doesn't understand (eg Solyndra vs the overall clean energy loans). So, kudos to Tesla *and* the feds for doing something positive in a largely, unfortunately, negative atmosphere these days.

Sounds fishy. Sad we will never know what tesla actually discovered

Originally posted by mc_squared

The funny thing about the clean energy loans however is that despite the Solyndra "scandal" (yawn), these loans have largely been an overall big success. The article above even points this out:

The $34 billion loan portfolio has seen several high-profile defaults, including solar panel maker Solyndra, plus a potential default by electric car maker Fisker Automotive.

But the Energy Department said in a statement that losses to date amount to 2 percent of the portfolio, or about $680 million. The department said it has helped to start 19 new clean-energy power plants that have added enough solar, wind and geothermal generating capacity to power a million homes.

Consider how this 2 percent stacks up against typical portfolios in old fashioned free-market venture capitalism, where the default rates are much, MUCH higher:

The Venture Capital Secret: 3 Out of 4 Start-Ups Fail

And in case anyone wants to still raise a stink about the 680 million anyway, bear in mind the DoE, like any sensible investor who understands the high risks of venture capital, prepared ahead for a given amount of loss. In fact they budgeted for 2.4 BILLION dollars of it. They are now projected to come in severely under that:

Review of the loan portfolio suggests total defaults are likely ultimately to be in the range $400 - $800 million dollars, or about one quarter the amount projected and budgeted for. Based on a reasonable assessment of outstanding portfolio financial profile and risks, the DOE loan program can therefore rationally only be viewed as a big success.

The disturing part about this is that you belive the DoE. The sad part is that you're bored with the Solyndra scandal. Billions of dollars wasted should be a concern to everyone, always. And what comes after a trillion? Any percentage of loss is too much. Those failed projects come out of our pockets. 34 billion divided between 19 companies, that's a lot of money per company and it comes out of our tax dollars, we don't get it back and then we get charged to use of the resulting products, if any. I don't see this as a win. But good for Tesla for repaying their loan. Exactly how did they do it? Was it through sales? Was it through private donations?

reply to post by StoutBroux


Welcome to the thread, ATS defender of right-wing rhetoric and myths.

What took you so long?

The disturing part about this is that you belive the DoE.

Sure...I love how when you guys are unable to argue anything logically, you just declare it all "lies", without any proof of course - but continue to accept the proven B.S. of the FOX propaganda parade as given truth of course.

Billions of dollars wasted should be a concern to everyone, always.

I'd say it's hardly a "waste" when it leads to clean energy for over a million homes and 60,000 jobs (and growing). But arguing that with someone like yourself seems kind of moot, since you'd prefer to subscribe to ridiculous hyperbole about billions and trillions of dollars, and apparently don't even understand how a loan works.

Here's how I know:

it comes out of our tax dollars, we don't get it back and then we get charged to use of the resulting products, if any. I don't see this as a win. But good for Tesla for repaying their loan.

yeeeesh...

If you wait some years it looks very good when it comes to electric powerd transportation.

www.ibm.com...

Problem is that there will be many jobs lost in the auto industry due to much lower maintenance cost for electric vehicles.

A lot of stuff produced for the automobile industry are spare parts needed to keep the cars on the road. A lot of service jobs are all about keeping the gas powered cars on the street.

Germany will be hit hard, as soon as the average consumer ecides to buy e-cars, because they are cheaper overall.

Elon Musk is one of the few great pioneers of our age.

reply to post by pjfry

Thanks for the link!

This is certainly true about the automotive service industry to an extent - I remember my mechanic complaining to me last year that he was getting ready for retirement simply because cars were getting too electronics-based for him (he's an old school guy).

But at the end of the day it's like anything really - technology keeps propelling us forward, so we have to adapt. I'm sure typewriter manufacturers faced the same sort of crisis when PC's hit the market too

Some auto mechanics will likely learn new skills and become electric car specialists. There should definitely be less work for the industry as a whole because less moving parts = less maintenance of course, but obviously that's a good thing for us moving forward.


...
At least it should be. You've hit on a much bigger topic I think, namely in what really drives our economy, our standard of living, etc. Take 3-D printing for example - how will that improve our lives but at the same time what will it do to the manufacturing and construction sector?

Ultimately it comes down to where the benefits of these economic improvements land. If they are fed back into society then there might be less work, but there should also be less need to work, while maintaining a high standard of living.

However, if they are just parlayed into the pockets of the rich, as seems to be the case with everything these days, then yeah - the 1% gets more pie, while everyone else is left with less and less table scraps (jobs) to fight over.


...
This however is one of the reasons why I think clean energy and distributed generation of that energy is so important, because it (literally) takes the power out of the hands of the controlling few and puts it back directly into the public.

This mentality extends to the government loans. Spending Loaning 34 billion in tax dollars is not a bad thing when it actually comes back to the benefit of the taxpayer.

Spending 700 billion on "defense" so politicians can make their buddies in the military industrial complex even richer is a whole other story.

the big trouble with electric cars is the current battery materials used. rare earth metal refinement is HORRIBLE for the environment. it's just that you never hear about it unless you look because china refines about 95% of the world's rare earth metals.

Nope,

rare earths are:

en.wikipedia.org...


Lithium can be recycled and is more common than lead in the earths crust. The only problem is that Lithium is only found in small concentrations, so that only some materials are worth mining or collecting.