Women don't like quiet males. (They prefer alpha males who are all bullies)

dozens of girls have told me that i am a jerk before sleeping with me and if you want to know the preference of girls,search twitter and facebook about the second boston bomber....

There is definitely some truth to the OP's notion. I actually posted a thread similar to this a while back, but it died quickly from a early retort from some dude calling me Pat Robertson for insinuating that women might have any sort of "responsibility" about the way people act in the world today. You definitely put it more eloquently though... as long as the message is delivered I'm happy!

I don't think women realize the kinds of RADICAL changes men will go through if they think it will win them over. Guys I have known personally back in high school and college went from nice guy to total douchebag/bully because they saw that girls just never gave them the time of day... when you're that age and full of hormones, what gives? I hypothesize that from this revelation every male has, there is literally a "bully factory" being born... and women have a LOT of power, if not all power to shift that. For example, one poster mentioned she made a resolution to ask a guy to dance, and she asked the timid dude. I bet the day women as a collective decided to do that, and--lets go one further-- decided that all douchebags, bullies, thugs, etc. are officially unsexy and the nerds, creatives, lovers are the ones to go for, the world will see peace. Not kidding! I can't remember who was talking about this, but they have seen populations of apes literally turn into complete peace and harmony once the "alpha" males were eradicated from the populations, leaving only the beta males to copulate.

Anyways OP, I think the consolation you have to come to terms with is to learn to look at this from both sides, because men always point fingers at women and vice versa. In some ways, men actually have it BETTER than women... for instance, while you do see the idiots get lots of girls, sometimes you WILL see the gorgeous girl with the balding middle aged man (who's not THAT rich), or the totally dorky guy etc... but you don't often see it the other way around (great looking or high status guy with an average girl). Men are 90% visual creatures, which women can't always change... whereas women are attracted to things that we have much more control over (like personality). That's one area where we actually have it good.

Also, I think you need to become just friends with a very attractive girl, just to see what kind of crap they put up with. They can get hit on 50 times in one day... so when they have stuff to do, even if they WANTED to be nice to every single one at some point they simply have to cut people off, in ways men might interpret as cold or harsh. That may seem like an amazing problem to have, but the thing is men are deceiving too... how are they supposed to know who's just after their body? It's not only the confident/alpha guys with issues.. timid guys can have all sorts of insecurities themselves... and guys of all flavors can easily be talking to them for only one reason. Anyways, I think all this stuff makes women become crazy-- at least that's my interpretation as a male haha!

Finally, I think you may find some solace once you realize that not every girl in the world was made for you anyways. Think about guys you know... how many of them are really cool, how many are neutral and boring and how many can you just not even stand at all? It's like the same for women... there are some that for no fault of your own you simply aren't going to hit it off with. There are diamonds in the rough out there though.. you just gotta keep looking, but KNOW WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR and cut off the ones that don't do it for you.

Originally posted by fadedface

All women are attracted to socially accepted confident males there is no female who would acknowledge a quiet, passive and uncompetitive male who lacks confidence and is socially awkward and this is wrong and shallow of them.

All of that is so - except for the "wrong and shallow" part. The converse is ALSO true there is no MALE who will acknowledge a quiet, passive, uncompetitive female who lacks confidence and is socially awkward.

Evidence: YOU have not done so, either - else you would not be alone right now. Those women appreciate the hell out of any attention at all, and you could be the king of your own little domain by now if you had picked up on one of those types. Fact is, you've not even noticed them... but have the nerve to complain that they have not noticed YOU?

I'm 28 years old and I've never been in a relationship with a woman, had a girlfriend or even ever had a friend who was female. I'm a quiet and polite person who lacks confidence and despite being a friendly person I am incapable of socialising with people in groups. It seems that women only notice guys who are socially accepted and confident and that shows how shallow and weak minded they are.

When I was younger I use to naively think that because I was a polite, quiet, timid and passive male I would eventually attract the interest of a woman now I realise how wrong I was and that women are only interested in confident and socially accepted males who know what they want and don't care how many people they walk over to get it. And confidence denotes everything from arrogance, smugness to bullying behaviour in males and the strength women perceive in confident males is just their ability to get what they want by walking over or trampling on as many people as possible and women are instinctively attracted to this because it demonstrates the competitiveness and survival instinct of the male which women search for when looking for a male to procreate with.

Its not right that quiet, polite and socially awkward males like myself are completely ignored or rejected and I have no intention and am not capable of changing who I am and there isn't anything wrong with being quiet, passive, over polite and socially awkward and women should start to notice men like me instead of only acknowledging the confident male idiots who compete for their attention.

I'm a strait, male hairdresser and let me tell you guys that think you know something about women...you don't know jack dude. This society is wrecking our women and they are so hard on themselves and on other women.It's no secret that nice guys finish last, but at this point guys, a woman is more likely to pick you more like she picking out a purse instead of a friend or partner to be with.It's all about her checklist and where you fit into that.If her friends and mom like you and she thinks you match her outfit...that will get you there so so so much faster than that "who you are" nonsense...guys...we are accessories in this culture.

Originally posted by nenothtu
All of that is so - except for the "wrong and shallow" part. The converse is ALSO true there is no MALE who will acknowledge a quiet, passive, uncompetitive female who lacks confidence and is socially awkward.

Actually I would acknowledge a female who is passive and timid and so would many other socially awkward males and many other males besides because you forget a woman being confident is not necessarily important to a male and don't underestimate how desperate some men are even the more seemingly confident ones.

But its irrelevant because a passive, quiet and uncompetitive females as you say is still going to have more options and opportunities than a male in the same situation and this is because males are always competing for female attention so even quieter females will get a chance to have a relatonship that is denied to quiet males and this is not fair.

Also I don't genuinely believe females are socially awkward in the same way as men are which is why all women regardless of whether or not they have confidence are still instinctively attracted to confident, popular and socially accepted males.

I am writing a reply to this for a few reasons. My mind set was much like the OP until recently. I had always seemed to see, the most poor display of choices for couples. I would always wonder why my success with girls was so terrible, when I considered my display as noble. By the time I was 26, I had only had sex with two girls and only a hand full of times. First understand anyone in this situation, starts to become crazy. Repeated failures for long times with little success, for what ever reason, causes any person to question themselves in highly irrational ways. Anxieties develop. My reason that I was failing, was my own. I am actually a decent looking guy in the whole of things. As far as my personality, I am very diverse in subjects and can talk deeper than most, with out alienating people. I don't need to explain how I previously thought others seen me, the original post did a good example.
So what's different now? Well I finally started questioning why I had a personal despise for "alphas". While in my pursuits of many fine young female, I would be told of my predecessor and how his aggressiveness was a true source of agony. I linked some where with the idea of respect, that any means of aggressive sexual approach was animalistic and wrong. So I waited and waited for any girl to make the first move obvious..... So then I could sweep her off her feet. It rarely happens to any guy, that is not highly aesthetic, that a girl will force that jump with. The truth is, the aggressive males had one thing right and most don't know it. Those moments, with the girls, that almost happened... Then didn't, are all my fault. If your socially aware enough to make intimate long term eye contact, you know that you can feel strong vibes off people. If you do not act on these "open windows" they will close. It's the boldness and confidence in those moments, that will trump all your chest thumping, loud mouth competition. It's that stronger person action that sweeps them off their feet. If you lack the ability to over come the anxiety in that moment you will never learn about your mojo.
To close I will reveal whats important for attracting a mate amongst competition. The lonely guys reading this know how often a friend who might consider you, becomes available. So if you want to increase your odds, at ending a true suffering of lonesomeness, you will have to go into highly public situations. I don't have an answer of how to obtain what I'm about to disclose but it's the truth. The most successful at being pursued are the people receiving the most interested eye contact and the most people listening. People tend to look at whats drawing others attention and populating an interesting conversation. So its your own fault for contently listening to your buddy brag about wrecking girls, while jealously looking at that "ignorant" other, wondering how he is more popular. How to obtain the eyes and ears of people is possible by anyone, you just have to have the confidence and know how to work charisma. Its mostly like that window with girls, you know darn well its open... You just have to act. Anyone who is virtuous knows that sacrifice is necessary, though it does not pay but the "Nice guys finish last." is BULL. It should be, Sexually meek will always seek.

Oh ...wow I did not read any more.Ladies love control over us shy males.....must be because of the up-bringing.

Originally posted by fadedface
Once you get beneath the masquerade and pretence females choose males purely by evolutionarily benchmarks based on natural selection especially in order to procreate. Its unfair the way women only choose socially accepted confident males and belies a savage and cruel survival of the fittest impulse on the part of females particularly but also humanity as a whole when propagating the species.

edit on 19-5-2013 by fadedface because: (no reason given)

Ok, I reckon I've heard about enough of the Darwinist model of dating games. I've got to make a few observations on that.

If what you say is so, and women only pick men to "procreate" with that have the natural requisites for survival of the species, and you have failed to make that cut, then I submit that perhaps a bit of introspection and self-reflection is called for at this point on YOUR part.

Perhaps it could be that you have no natural advantages to offer the species and ensure it's survival?

Being quiet and passive is one thing, but being quiet and passive-aggressively demanding is something else altogether. Nothing in this world just drops in your lap with no effort on your part. You've no business demanding anything at all from anyone, woman or man, that you are unwilling to put the effort into acquiring.

reply to post by solarjetman


I agree with a lot of what you say in your post especially about women influencing the behaviour of men. Women are inherently socialable and they decide which males are socially accepted and which males are excluded on a social level. It is because of this that quiet, passive and uncompetitive males who lack confidence are marginalised and side-lined by women in social situations because they consider these males to be socially inadequate by not conforming to the masculine perception women have imposed upon males. Women will unfairly label quiet and passive males as 'weirdo's', 'freaks' and 'loners' and someone in an earlier post before had the cheek to call me scary when actually this sort of intolerant behaviour expressed by women toward socially awkward males is actually what is genuinely scary.

Just as women determine which males will be evolutionarily successful by deciding which males will have the right to breed with them which is dictated by natural selection this also happens on a social level as well. Women determine which males will be socially accepted and any male who does not conform to the competitive, strong and confident perception women have imposed upon males is immediately deemed to be socially inadequate and rejected and denigrated.

Women will degrade passive and weak males like myself by calling us damaging names such as 'creep' and 'weirdo' and they will also manipulate competitive and confident males to bully us to further entrench our sense of social isolation and alienation. Of course the subconscious aim (or maybe even consciously done with some women) is to wipe out passive and weak males from the gene pool by condemning us to be permanently alone and socially exiled.

This sort of behaviour by women is very social darwinistic which is why I likened women to 'social Nazis' in an earlier post.

I personally think that women feel threatened by weak, passive and timid males such as myself because we subvert the competitive masculine male traits women expect and demand in males and by doing this we undermine the natural order of survival of the fittest which is the only thing women understand on both a social and biological level.

If women where to suddenly realize they have free will to go against their biological instincts which dictate that only aggressively confident and competitive alpha males are worthy of procreation and start to acknowledge passive, weak and timid males I firmly believe there would be a complete change in society which would eventually lead to a change in human nature.

If women went against natural selection in choosing males to procreate with and picked weak males to procreate with instead then eventually alpha males would become obsolete because there would be no necessity for males to fiercely compete with one another for the right to breed with females. Alpha males only behave so violently, aggressively and competitively because they realize that females only select the fittest and strongest males for procreation purposes.

If women started to procreate with weak and passive males eventually humanity would become more passive and peaceful beings and society would become more tolerant. There would be less violence in society because alpha males would be redundant and less mental health problems because weak and passive males would finally be getting the attention from females that has always been denied from them by women.


And nothing anyone says will shift or change my view that women have it easier in life and unfairly get to decide which males are socially and evolutionarily successful and which are not. They should not have this power over the lives of men.

Originally posted by fadedface

Originally posted by nenothtu
All of that is so - except for the "wrong and shallow" part. The converse is ALSO true there is no MALE who will acknowledge a quiet, passive, uncompetitive female who lacks confidence and is socially awkward.

Actually I would acknowledge a female who is passive and timid and so would many other socially awkward males and many other males besides you forget a woman being confident is not necessarily important to a male and don't underestimate how desperate some men are even the more seemingly confident ones.

1. Then why haven't you?

2. I can't imagine anyone more socially awkward than myself, and seriously doubt you'll ever meet the like. Somehow, I manage.

3. Desperation is not a comely trait, in either males OR females. You start projecting that, you're in for a rough ride. AND an unproductive one. They'll scatter like a flock of sheep before a wolf. "Confidence" and "desperation" are natural antagonists. I've never seen both in the same body at the same time.

But its irrelevant because a passive, quiet and uncompetitive females as you say is still going to have more options and opportunities than a male in the same situation and this is because males are always competing for female attention so even quieter females will get a chance that is denied to quiet males and this is not fair.

Negative. They still have to get noticed, same as you do. You've just as good a shot as anyone at them. All you have to do is be the first to notice them, and slick in there before the next guy. Done deal. While the "bad boys" and "alpha males" are out chasing down super models, narcissistic teenagers, and the like, you could be livin' the life of Riley.

Also I don't genuinely believe females are socially awkward in the same way as men are which is why all women regardless of whether or not they have confidence are still instinctively attracted to confident, popular and socially accepted males.

Maybe not in the same way as men, but no less socially awkward. Women in general make the rules as to what "social" is, but not all of them can follow those rules with any degree of confidence. Those are known as "wallflowers", and that's where you need to be looking. You show them the slightest bit of attention, make them laugh once, and you'll own 'em for life.

Meanwhile, Billy Bad-Boy and Albert Alpha are dealing with child support issues and messy divorces from their failed attempts at "procreation", and YOU are living the nice quiet life in a cute little cottage with a woman who adores you. it's a no-brainer.

You gotta get out there and hunt (even for the wallflowers - ESPECIALLY for the wallflowers, as they tend to escape notice), and put in a bit of effort, though. Ain't nothing free, and it don't just fall into your lap.

Women won't beat down your door if you're not even willing to so much as knock on theirs.

Originally posted by Jepic

A lock that is opened by many keys is a lock you don't want to put your key into.

Aye.

Nor is a lock that just any old key will open secure enough to store your OWN precious heart in!

Originally posted by fadedface
reply to post by LightsideAssassin

 

Your right women want a man to be a 'warrior' and they hate passive men who just want 'everyone to get along'.

Women impose the survival of the fittest upon life and alpha males only act the way they do because they know that they have to be competitive, warlike and aggressive in order to have a chance of procreating with females because females on an instinctive level (sometimes unconsciously not often though) are attracted to these traits going back to our ancestors who lived in a hunter gatherer society when there was only alpha males because weaker males did not survive!

NO society, and NO species has ONLY "alpha males" - if all were alphas, top dawgs, then NONE would be alphas... there would be no "top" to be "dawg" of.

Being a "Warrior" is not a matter of bullying your way through life. The only purpose of a warrior is to protect his own people - to look out for others above himself. Bullying is antithetical to that purpose. Think logically - if you're taking a chance on getting killed, it sort of flies right in the face of the whole "looking out for Number One" concept. You die, you just mucked up your whole life's purpose if that's it.

If women look for "warriors". it's not because they think that guy is going to look out for himself - it's because they expect he's going to look out for THEM.

Lastly, no one, but NO ONE, wishes folks could all just get along more than a warrior does. After all, he's the one that does the dying when they DON'T get along.

reply to post by nenothtu


You've admitted yourself women make the rules of socialisation and I don't think this is right or fair because they have a bias against quiet males who lack confidence and preference for confident, competitive and socially accepted males and all that entails.

Your not going to change my opinion women have it easier in life and even women who are shy (I don't believe any woman is genuinely social awkward) will still have males vying for their attention and competing for their interest whereas a male who is socially awkward and has no confidence and who cannot cope or function in social situations is condemned by women to be alone and is forgotten about. It is morally wrong on the part of women that they do not notice and approach males who are socially awkward and who do not have the confidence to talk to women but they give no end of attention to the confident and socially accepted smug males.

Women get to decide which men are socially accepted and which men are evolutionarily successful they in short get to decide which men are happy and which men are not. They shouldn't have this power over men and its about time it was taken away from them.

As for me I'm finally and gratefully becoming less attracted to women after spending my whole life being ignored and ridiculed by them for no other reason than being a quiet, timid and passive male with no confidence while they have fun with their confident alpha male idiots.

The only reason I am raising this is because there are other males like me who have been ignored and ridiculed by women for having no confidence, no self esteem and who are socially awkward and these are quiet males who deserve to be noticed and accepted by women.

I think more awareness should be made that women are only attracted to confident, competitive and socially accepted (preferably) alpha males so the quiet and socially awkward males like myself who have no chance will be saved the disappointment of being condemned by women to be alone.

reply to post by nenothtu


Women have let quiet, passive and socially awkward males like me down in ignoring and rejecting us and only noticing the confident, competitive and socially accepted males who have it all anyway.

I don't want to hear anymore counter arguments from anyone anymore its all to late.

reply to post by fadedface


Fadedface it is not the quiet, or the polite that turns women off. It's the socially awkward turning everyone off. A socially awkward person makes everyone uncomfortable because we are social creatures. Women MUCH more so than men.

Social awkwardness usually stems from a lack of self esteem. Self esteem is perceived by others as confidence. Be proud of what you are good at. If you aren't good at anything, get good at something worthwhile. Passive self loathing whiners will never change the world, so change yourself.

Don't try to be a "bad boy." Be you, but be a confident, bad ass you. Chicks dig quiet, comfortable power, just ask BMW. Polite is sexy, quiet is sexy. Socially awkward is creepy.

The best way to help the social awkwardness is practice. Be social. Yes you'll make mistakes. You'll get laughed at. Laugh with them, and brush it off if its harmless and funny. If its cruel or demeaning stand up for yourself. It will be hard at first, but after observing, emulating, and adapting for your own style you can be a quiet, polite, gentle, but still powerful guy.

Believe me the strong, gentle, chivalrous types get it the most. We're just too polite to brag about it. The guy that brags about it isn't getting it I promise you. I'm one of those plain, balding dudes with a bombshell wife. I got her by showing her a man can be powerful, and sensitive. They are not mutually exclusive.

Yes we as men have it better. We can attract a woman FAR better looking than ourselves by being a better man. Attracting a good woman is a lot of work though. Keeping her is easier if you really are a great guy inside. Great= intelligent, kind, and powerful. By powerful I mean determined, strong of character, and capable. You can't blame a woman for running from a wimp. Who wants to partner with someone you have to look after and be a caregiver for?

"Sorry Betty, I can't come to the new year's party. My socially awkward husband is having a panic attack, and snarking nasal spray, and spewing snot."

Or

"Hi Betty, my husband made a full rack of ribs for your party tonight. What's your favorite beer? He's buying. He's the life of the party isn't he?"

Which guy do you think is married to a hottie? Guy #1 could look like Tom Cruise, and guy #2 could look like me, and guy #2 wins the better woman. Bully's are only attractive to immature women who mistake false machismo for power. A kind, capable man is irresistible to a good woman.

reply to post by fadedface


If you were a true intelligent man you would do what our ancestors did to promote the trait; you would peruse as an alpha male to have the best of both worlds: demeanor AND intelligence- thus becoming a leading alpha male.

You see, I too am an Omega. I lived most of my childhood in the shadows of Alphas- those who lead the pack of males that looked up to them. But I sat back and watched. I saw what traits the girls liked in the males and what opportunities made the most impact on their perception of them. I found the best of these and I copied them and improved on it.

I forced myself to play sports and worked out. I forced myself to become more physically loud and boisterous when necessary. I fought when I wanted to run. I stood my ground when I wanted to back down. And I slowly climbed the social ladder until I was viewed as THE alpha male. But, behind the scenes, at home I read books about string-theory and M-theory. I mastered art and writing. I learned computer language as a pastime activity. I played RPG's and favored nerdy entertainment.

In the end I found myself to become a character like Ender. I am an Alpha male, not by inheritance, but by right. I am the small percent of us who allowed the furtherance of intelligence as a selected gene. I learned and mastered the ancient secret art of deception.

I agree with the OP

Yes self confidence is needed but Im a guy that has a very hard time trusting the intentions of others, things stay with a long time after been taken for a ride at my expense just so they can get their kick out of it, hence im reserved about putting myself out there and take my time examining and understanding people first. I only got out of a 10 year relation a few months ago and taking myself time atm (she picked me up btw) so I don't know the dating game at this age yet im nearly 31

When I was younger there was a few girls I liked over varying periods yeah we all came to make great friends but they still choose the pricks over someone who has emotional understanding depth that actually cares for others, am I weak hell no i'll be the first to frontline if those close to me are in trouble.

The thing that annoys me especially that im single again. I'm the first male they run to for comfort and advice when their relations start turning to crap and their not getting treated right, hell some have been cheated on multiple times.

So yes woman do like these bad boys but then want us quiet sensitive caring types to comfort them when their bad boys treat them wrong, so please explain to me their what this is about??? please as im lost

As of the weekend I actually deleted my facebook account and a lot of numbers out of my phone so I can have "myself time" and do a bit of self discovery, so it will be interesting to see what happens when im not there for them and they have to deal with this crap themselves. Ive always put others before myself when the opportunity is their as I feel guilty if I could have and didn't so yes time to learn more about myself first and see where I fit into this world

reply to post by Dynamike


That's what I'm talking about!!! You got it. My wife calls me a nerd all the time. The difference is she says it with bedroom eyes, not contempt. I'm a big guy. 6'1" 250lbs. I was big in high school, and got picked on because I wouldn't use my size to intimidate. I was very passive.

My junior year a bully in my school threw my best friend down the stairs and she was badly injured. I snapped. I beat the snot out if him and his three bully buddy's. I then used my new found popularity to enforce my own personal "no bully" rule at my school. I have never allowed my own distaste for confrontation to get a loved one hurt again. You have to know when to fight, and life always has fights. I don't like to fight, but I got good at it, and yes my senior year I was very popular with the girls, but I was never a jerk. I got TONs of ahem... Action. The reason was mostly because I didn't brag about it. Girls don't like being locker room fodder. A little respect, and discretion will get you a lot of steamy nights in the back of an old Chevy.

The jocks thought I was "friend zoned" by all the girls I hung out with. I let them believe it because the first time I bragged about it, it would have screwed it all up, and been disrespectful to my girlfriends. The art of deception indeed!

Your theory is utterly flawed. For a start, there are women out there who are as predatory and dominating as an alpha male, and will seek weak willed men to crush and possess. They have no interest in being protected, seek no solace and comfort, only control.

There are also women out there who do not want relationships because they fear commitment, usually because they have had poor expiriences with the male species as a whole, probably starting with thier father, and resulting in a scenario where no matter how many times you save them from indignities like, vomiting into thier own lap, falling asleep on the pavement outside the bar you have been in, how many nightmares you wake them from, how many times she calls you during a thunderstorm and you end up at her house cradling her so she can sleep, they still arent going to have a "normal" response to that positive stimulus.

There are in fact, as many different types of PEOPLE (lets ignore gender for a moment) in the world as there are stars in the sky, and making assumptions about any one half of the population therefore, is somewhat ridiculous. You cannot generalise to the degree you have, without ignoring significant variables in the situation you describe.

Also, you have not used the term "quiet" very sensibly either. Some males, who do not identify with the alpha description, are expressive and verbose, and not at all quiet. Volume does not prevent a person having wit, charm, and a good soul.