Military Says No Presidential Authorization Needed To Quell “Civil Disturbances”

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by clearmind
so wait wait wait...what im understanding is that the military is saying that they have the 'right" or "legal authority" to step in an "quell" a civil disturbance

Well, did the military men swear to uphold the US Constitution?

If they did, then the very first paragraph of that constitution requires the defenders to "ensure domestic tranquility".

They don't have to wait for the president to tell them to uphold the constitution.

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, it supersedes the president.

All who swear to uphold the constitution, take their orders directly from the text of the constitution itself.

President not needed.

SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

Done

reply to post by randyvs


The first time a comment brought real tears to my face, as opposed to only my eyes. Thanks for sharing your story with us

reply to post by jude11


Good stuff jude11

Here`s also a decent read if any havn`t read it..

The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), passed after the attacks of 11 September 2001, and provides the legal cornerstone for the so-called US "war on terror".

Only one brave Congress member opposed it. It allows the US government to wage war at anytime, any place and on anyone deemed a threat to national security – with remarkably little evidence needed.



This is the new normal. Statistics provided by Special Operations Command (pdf) indicate that special forces groups were operating in 92 different countries in March 2013. The AUMF premise, no matter how it gets tweaked, is enabling a system of eternal warfare, a reality that is not only financially untenable for a nation in deep debt, but also ethically indefensible.
www.stopwar.org.uk...

Just imagine what governments they`ll pressure to install in those countries if America`s government has been a runaway out of control locomotive for far too many years.

To stop this (unfortunately for them) massive changes need to take place, its gone past the point of honoring and respecting current millitary personal as in yesteryear because they take orders from a currupt Government, they need to be brought home for defense of your own soil.

Heck I wouldn`t even be surprised to read one day that economic hardship was purposely dealt toward average Americans to drum up more people to sign up for a military career, its just diabolical whats happened and is happening post 9-11.

But Angelina`s breasts seem to be the hot topic of the MSM, until the next never ending Hollywood gossip piece takes its place.

This is the goal imo Count Down to REAL ID the world had better wake up.

Originally posted by Ghost375
The thing is....whether there is a law for or against it....the military will do what they want.
Who's really going to stop the military?

How many guns are in the hands of citizens right now?

That is why they are trying to attack the 2 amendment.

To many care no to look let alone belive...
they just want to be sure to get thier checks each month for sittin on the lazy @sses.
Those of us that work , no matter where. See what is happening.
Many choose to look the other way....sad.

It will all come to a head soon enough.
The media is still backing dear ruler and until that changes all the sheep will be happy save a few.

History is doomed to repete itself, and I to hope it happens sooner then later as I feear our next gen. is not able to handle what is nessasary....

Originally posted by ikonoklast
If all wars were fought with logic like this, very few would ever end.

All wars are fought with logic like this. World War II was fought until the belligerent states surrendered. It didn't matter that Yamamoto was killed early on, the war in the Pacific continued until the Imperial Japanese organization surrendered. The war in Europe didn't end when Hitler and his 1938 commanders died or surrendered, it ended when the Nazi state surrendered, its organs ceased hostilities, and its domains were turned over to Allied control. The purpose of war is not to avenge yourself on a select group of people who have wronged you, or seek out and kill the boss like a video game. It is to destroy an enemy's capacity to resist and force them to adopt policies favorable to you. That means attacking, at one's discretion, all of the enemy's organizations engaged in armed resistance.

I seem to recall Osama bin Laden allegedly using the same sort of logic to justify attacks on the USA based on there being many Christians in the USA and then considering hostilities between Christians and Muslims as ongoing since the Crusades.

The AUMF authorizes attacks on an identified belligerent organization and co-belligerents, to prevent further attacks against the US. Osama Bin Laden's fatwa authorized attacks on non-belligerents, so he could capture territory and be a ruler. The two are not comparable.

We also wind up with some other logical quandaries, since the US government has provided (and apparently continues to provide) weapons to some of the "associated forces" in Libya and now Syria.

The AUMF "authorizes" the President to use force against AQ, it does not require him to do so. Obama's foreign policy is a spectacular failure, but this is allowed within the parameters of the AUMF. It's a bad idea, but if the AUMF is your only premise, it's logically sound.

reply to post by jude11

Military Says No Presidential Authorization Needed To Quell “Civil Disturbances”

All government anywhere in the world today or any that has existed in history have one thing in common; fear of civil unrest. The story of what happened to King Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette is a recurring nightmare to anyone in a position of leadership in any nation.

Here in the US, there are about 310 million people, 87 million of which are believed to own firearms. And so while even today with the infliction of the Patriot Act and all the other rends and tears to our constitution, we're still one of the least restricted societies on the planet. For those in high office, some of whom probably browse the web and occasionally read the words of discontent found on sites like this one, the concept of any civil insurrection just scares the bejezus out of them.

Times are tough economically. Our nation allowed its industrial plant to skip to China. All those millions of jobs that sustained the now-extinct middle class went with them. Our southern border is wide open and millions of illegals flood across seeking jobs we don't have for our own people. The current administration has shown zero ability to recreate that lost middle class and zero intention to do anything but allow the torrent of illegals to increase.

People are getting pissed... and the government knows it. They know that what they are doing is bad for the country but they are apparently either unable or unwilling to change course.

The result is exactly the kind of things mentioned in the OP... where those at the top are girding for the worst before doing a doggone thing to make any of it any better.

Personally, I don't see any civil violence coming... nothing on a large scale anyway. I think there will be a lot more scandal in the near future and then in 2014 and 2016, there will be some wholesale changes for those in Washington.

I just hope that whoever comes next to replace this horrid bunch get it right because, if they don't, then all bets are off.

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by VoidHawk
S&F because this needs attention so FLAG this thread people!!

Sadly I fear its already too late. In the uk I now see privatized security forces roaming our streets, and recently I came across a bunch of youths all wearing a uniform and carrying a note pad. They were searching the streets for anyone or anything to write about in their notepads, it made me think of the Hitler youth who reported anyone and anything to the nazi's.

Thanks.

I am so frustrated, sick and tired of blind, brainwashed sheep being led to the pens with absolutely no idea of why.

I'm not angry with the sheep but actually starting to feel scared and sad for those that are too far gone. I guess I'll just keep posting in the hope that 1 or 2 pick up on the message and actually dig a little deeper than the MSM for the truth.

Then it's worth it...right?

Peace

brainwashed sheep???....do you know how many hundreds of posts telling us..... "America is doomed" and "it's all going to end" and "you are all sheeple", are on ATS?....please, there are thinking people here, and most of us are not scared, frightened, doomsdayers

Every government conceivably has plans for martial law situations so what is the suprise about america having such as well? The only thing that is scary, besides the 16 trillion debt fiasco, is the constant wars we get involved, that sets us up for real terror in the future and drains money from social services.

Other than that? Why is the right so paranoid in america?

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by VoidHawk
S&F because this needs attention so FLAG this thread people!!

Sadly I fear its already too late. In the uk I now see privatized security forces roaming our streets, and recently I came across a bunch of youths all wearing a uniform and carrying a note pad. They were searching the streets for anyone or anything to write about in their notepads, it made me think of the Hitler youth who reported anyone and anything to the nazi's.

Thanks.

I am so frustrated, sick and tired of blind, brainwashed sheep being led to the pens with absolutely no idea of why.

I'm not angry with the sheep but actually starting to feel scared and sad for those that are too far gone. I guess I'll just keep posting in the hope that 1 or 2 pick up on the message and actually dig a little deeper than the MSM for the truth.

Then it's worth it...right?

Peace

brainwashed sheep???....do you know how many hundreds of posts telling us..... "America is doomed" and "it's all going to end" and "you are all sheeple", are on ATS?....please, there are thinking people here, and most of us are not scared, frightened, doomsdayers

It would be nice if people KNEW what they were scared off and mentioned it briefly. I suppose nazis and communists are the "real enemy" to those that can't specify otherwise. Wake up to what? Wake up to the fact that the earth is hollow, the moon is hollow, that aliens control masons/royals/bankers/government and want to depopulate earth? Wake up to the sirens of world war 3? Wake up to an asteroid strike? Wake up to 40% unemployment?

Except we get the typical AND GENERIC "wake up" from the cowards who don't have the nerve to specify WHAT they fear. "I fear government". Why don't other people fear government, correction are insanely paranoid about government. Only americans fear communists and nazis. It must be the eternal curse of mcarthy!

Originally posted by redoubt
[
People are getting pissed... and the government knows it. They know that what they are doing is bad for the country but they are apparently either unable or unwilling to change course.

Actually, people are quite happy.

The proof of this, is that they are content to sit at their computers and rant and rave on forums like ATS.

As long as this energy is being expended in text traffic, and thus "dissipated" over the world wide web, the nation will remain at peace.

Remember, the internet was created by the defense department, not Al Gore, it's a tool for the nations defense.

Riots, explosions, and revolutions, all occur because people have "bottled up" emotions and ideas that need release.

Well, the internet gives the people a stage to release. So, it never hits the streets.

That ensures domestic tranquility.

The time to worry, is when people stop posting, altogether. Or they are only posting seemingly nice things. Then, you'll have to wonder where did all the pent up anger go? If it's not being expressed in one form, it will definitely show up in another form.

As George Bush Jr. said, the great thing about democracy is that people can think what they want, and the president can do what he wants. As long as the people are only thinking and talking, the president can be a good tyrant. And so he could tap your phone, engage in war, plan 911, and whatever else he wills, and the people can talk about it all they want on the internet.

The internet is the peacemaker. It absorbs all the negative energy, leaving the people on the streets very happy.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Furvus, I don't know what is more disturbing: listening to the discussion of the UAMF from the Senate Committee on Armed Services this past Thursday and reading the DoD/Pentagon briefing document (as well as the other info discussed in this thread and similar threads), or reading your defense of the DoD/Pentagon interpretation of the UAMF and how they are applying (and intend to keep applying) this interpretation.

Although the discussion with you within this thread has been disturbingly interesting, it actually does feel like I've been debating with the Furvus Rex Caeli (Dark King of the Heavens?). You argue your points well. But, whether intentionally or ironically, you strongly reinforce why jude, myself, and many others on this thread feel like there are good reasons to be concerned with the direction all of this seems to be headed.

reply to post by jude11


Yes...but what are you gonna do about it?

Hmmm?

Gonna git ya bolt action hunting rifle out and have a pop at an Apache gunship?

Civilians taking on the military?

An armed fight is only going to get a lot of Civilians killed and maimed, and a few handfuls of soldiers if you're lucky. Armed responce is out of the question...it's what they're expecting you to do, why d'ya think they've been setting up the gun grabs?

Legal routes are probably just as futile.

They wipe their arses on the Constitution these days, like there's a shortage of toilet paper and nobody in the justice system, Congress or LE are doing a bloody thing about it.

They have in place all the assets they need to wriggle out of any legal squeeze, judges, FBI, LEO's and AG's are either in on it, or are too afraid to go against 'the machine' that is looking frighteningly very much like the beginnings of Nazi Germany of the 30's.

Face it...they have you all by the short and curlies, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Or...is there?

What do these 'people' busy ruining America cherish most?
What do they need to sustain them above all else?

Power, money and control....it's like air, food and drink all rolled into one to them.

Cut off the air supply, and they'll be squirming around on their bellies in minutes.

Someone, who has the ear of the people needs to get grass roots stylee and organise the people who are awake...that someone needs to organise the awake people and get them to do something, very, very important.

The people need to do....nothing. Absolutely nothing...at all.

No working.
No leisure.
No voting.
No entertainment.
No paying.
No buying.
No driving.
No nothing!

Nothing that involves their air, food and drink.

Within a week, they'll be begging to give you your rights back.

This you CAN do...fighting a corrupt justice system while expecting it to give you justice is going to go nowhere.
Fighting one of the world's largest and best equipped armies...that's only going to take you to two places..the morgue and further into hell for the rest of the people.

Cutting off their air, food and drink though...now, that's a different story altogether.

reply to post by watchitburn


I know a lot of Marines. They all take the same stance as watchitburn. My father, for one. A Marine and a Vietnam Vet. Another is a friend of mine here locally. The Marines stand for the Constitution and for the United States. By the United States, I mean you and me. I don't think they are happy at all with our current President, particularly over this holding the umbrella business. It's a waste of their skills. I believe if anyone stands up for the people militarily speaking, it will be the Marines. They always have. That doesn't mean they won't slap the piss out of you for being disrespectful, and it doesn't mean in a riot situation, they wouldn't defend themselves or there fellow Marines.

That being said, what really bothers me about this is July the 4th. Adam Kokesh, A Marine, is in jail for organizing this armed march on D.C. I feel like they OKed this as a show of force, just as they have Kokesh in custody. We won't be seeing him any time soon. I guarantee we won't see or hear from him before July.

The march has TPTB scared, so they are taking a threatening stance. They know that if enough Americans gather at this thing, they couldn't control the situation.... so they have the military step in. It's a potential SHTF scenario. I don't want to see people die, but I'm not going to say anyone that participates in this is in the wrong. It is a right given to us by our forefathers, so that we could defend ourselves from TYRANNY. They knew the potential for corruption. It can be seen throughout history. Our government is bought and paid for and they are overstepping their boundaries. I just hope that if this turns bad, our soldiers do the right thing. It's their country too. I don't want to see a bloodbath, but I want these corrupt officials to know that we will eventually unite and take their power from them if they don't begin to understand that they work for US. We don't work for them. We pay our taxes (Unlike Apple) so that they can operate, not the other way around. God be with our soldiers, and civilians alike.

All the distractions in the world wont allow us to come to a consensus to truths. People who agree with the OP already know these things. Try to speak out and be labeled "tin foil hat lunatic." lol

Originally posted by VoidHawk
reply to post by Gordi The Drummer

 

Dont want to give to much away concerning my location so I'll take photo's when I see them again and send you a link. That ok?

That'll do nicely thanks!

(Even a county / region would suffice for now!)

ta,
G

Originally posted by ikonoklast
reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli

 

Although the discussion with you within this thread has been disturbingly interesting, it actually does feel like I've been debating with the Furvus Rex Caeli (Dark King of the Heavens?). You argue your points well. But, whether intentionally or ironically, you strongly reinforce why jude, myself, and many others on this thread feel like there are good reasons to be concerned with the direction all of this seems to be headed.

There are excellent reasons to be concerned with the direction the country is headed. Conspiracy theorists weaken those reasons when they mix them up with idiosyncratic interpretation of the law and ignorance of why the law was written the way it was written. And those interpretations are usually pushed for someone's benefit, even if the CTs themselves don't know whose benefit they're working for.

The AUMF was tailored to authorize use of force against a transnational organization on an open-ended basis. Everyone, at the time, knew that. Public commentators dubbed it "World War IV." The government named it the "Global War on Terror." It appears some cynical members of Congress are now denying the AUMF's global intent, in public forums, in order to build their drum up monetary donations and votes. If Congress wants to amend or revoke the AUMF, that is their right. But mischaracterizing what it is, and what it always has been, is dishonest. So is calling Congress's war power "a nullity," when Congress itself authorized the war and continues to fund it and exercises oversight over it, year after year. Congress has all the power it could constitutionally have over this war. It simply isn't exercising its power the way Angus King wants it to, and he's taking it out on the executive branch because that's easier for a first-term senator than calling out his colleagues in the Senate.

I'm not sure how the 2001 AUMF got conflated with the executive's constitutional authority to quell domestic violence when the government cannot function. Is there anyone who still thinks that's improper?

The name is actually a tongue-in-cheek Beechcraft pun. It's pretty stupid, but somehow that made it even better.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli
The AUMF was tailored to authorize use of force against a transnational organization on an open-ended basis. Everyone, at the time, knew that. Public commentators dubbed it "World War IV." The government named it the "Global War on Terror."

At least to that extent we can agree. Right from the beginning, it amounted to a virtually unending "war on terror" against an enemy that was broadly and poorly defined. And this was greatly expanded by the NDAA.

The name is actually a tongue-in-cheek Beechcraft pun. It's pretty stupid, but somehow that made it even better.

Ahh, so it's Dark Sky King, not Dark King of the Heavens. Good to know you're not Satan, Loki, or Yog-Sothoth or such. So now I'll picture you as a dark version of this guy: Sky King. But in a Beechcraft rather than a Cessna. And maybe with a goatee, like the dark versions of the original Star Trek crew in that old episode with the parallel universe.

reply to post by SQUEALER


People need an intellectual forum where they can seek out like minded thinkers. I don't exactly run into many people that are willing to discuss the types of things talked about here. Also, we're not allowed to post calls to action or organize ourselves on this forum. Would you be willing to get off your rump, march with us young people to Washington, and dismantle the Whitehouse and Congress? Your post makes me doubt it.