The only thing preventing ET from being here on Earth now is the Human Belief!

The only thing preventing Extraterrestrials from being here on Earth, is the human presumption made based on its main stream scientific beliefs/understanding that the speed of light is fixed quantity.

As each decade passes this rule is being challenged with new findings and ideas presented that suggests it may be one day possible to get around this rule, without breaking it.
The idea of a space warp bubble around a space ship is idea that was popularised in Startrek and there are intelligent people in Government, Private sectors and even the amature science novices who are seriously analysing the theoretical concept behind this.

Therefore, and lets be completely honest about this Debunker Skeptics the only reason why ET cant be, or never has been to Earth is that its based on the Human scientific belief/understandings that building a craft that can accelerate past the light speed is practically impossible.

If one day Human science finds out that this presumption was completely wrong, then it would mean that not only is it likely Extraterrestrials have visited Earth in in the past they are here now, and have been here for a long time.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

If one day Human science finds out that this presumption was completely wrong, then it would mean that not only is it likely Extraterrestrials have visited Earth in in the past they are here now, and have been here for a long time.

Your presumption depends more on ET's advanced capabilities, past and present, than it does on the speed of light. What makes you feel that ET possesses those capabilities? I suspect it's just wishful thinking on your part.

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by BenReclused


I dont presume, what i am making is a statement of a black and white reality based on a scenarios either 1. That craft cant be built to practically exceed light. 2. That craft can be built to exceed of light.

Its impossible for me to prove which one will turn out to be correct, because my lifespan isnt long enough and also i dont have crystall ball into the future.

The OP is prostulating that if 2 turns out to the the case, then debunkers and skeptics of today just would have to face there is a strong possibility that intelligent races like humans in the Galaxy will right now be using the faster than light capability to explore this Galaxy. Then that makes a strong argument for Extraterrestrials have been here in the past or visiting now in the present.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I believe wormholes exist, and that they are actively being used by type IV civilizations, with access to infinity energy, I believe they have access to this planet, but I don't believe they need space-ships, they are not even living in this dimension, they are above the technology of space-ships and any other 3rd dimensional technology, they use 5th, 6th, 7th dimensional technologies, we simply cannot comprehend them.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I disagree. For me, the existence of life somewhere else in the Universe is not based at all on the speed of light, or travel arrangements. It's based on probabilities, and the probability of extraterrestrial life existing somewhere else in the Universe is very high. I believe that extraterrestrial life exists simply because it is the most logical belief to have.

What those extraterrestrials are, is a different issue though. Warp-speed engines and rocket ship crafts presupposes that the human being is the dominant form of evolution in the Universe. That is something which I simply do not agree with. The available data would suggest that human evolution was a chance occurrence. The reason mammals, like human beings, dominated the Earth was less to do with us being the "superior evolutionary model," and more to do with continual Mass Extinctions which wiped out the real dominant evolutionary models, like single-celled organisms, dinosaurs, and large sea-life.

If life has evolved elsewhere in the Universe, it is probably more likely to be marine in nature, dinosaur-like in nature, or, and this one is my personal belief, insect-like. Think about all the human beings on the planet: every culture, ethnicity, type, and evolutionary path we have gone down. A single species of insect is equal to, or exceeds, all of that. The dominant evolutionary model of our planet, I think, is insects.

On another similar planet where life evolved and managed to avoid total extinction, I think it would be insect-like as well.

And insects don't pilot space ships.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by AthlonSavage


The David H Lewis books (secrets of the pyramid) talk about going FTL and the implications involved. Whilst the book is probably fiction he does raise some interesting questions. Flying through debris and magnetic influences in space is a hurdle but the time perception that occurs is what i find very interesting. If humans could develop such a travel and went to the edge of the solar system and back in hours, would the people on earth have aged months even years as suggested in the books?
I have always wondered about this since Einstein was indicating light is effected by gravity which means there might be something faster than light out there yet to be discovered.
A lot of speculation here but it does make the mind wonder. In my personal opinion there is something definitely sitting higher on the awareness chain than humans and seems to have control of certain forces of nature but still has limitations. I am still not convinced myself that these intelligences haven't been here for a very very long time.
It would not surprise me if we found out our species was the "alien" invaders and that's why we as a collective group have very little connection and respect for the planet and less self aware inhabitants.

1. ET doesn't get here. (Too many odds against it for whatever reason.)

or...

2. ET sees all the stupid idiotic things humans do, and keeps a very low profile when watching this place. Obviously I wouldn't want anyone fighting over petty causes and other trivial nonsense, mismanaging resources, and making a mess of things to be able to figure out how to do the same outside of their home system's gravity well. (Keep in mind if they know you can get to where they are, then half the secret is out and therefore they'll know what is possible.) Such behavior merits keeping an eye on, and possibly being kept in the dark.

It may not be human belief in whether travel between stars is possible, but could be very accountable to other human beliefs. (Economic, social/cultural, religious, and political.) It could be a case of aliens all around us, but we're being kept in the zoo until we behave better than all the "dumb" animals we're claiming to be better than.

I'm going out on a limb and saying:
1) Fermi's paradox doesn't require FTL travel; just requires millions of years to colonize a galaxy
2) UFOs present some evidence that we have indeed been visited

Since recent evidence (*) hints life coudl have existed billions of years ago and most of the stars in our galaxy are old then I think it's very plausible we have been visited. This doesn't require FTL travel. If you research Fermi's Paradox you'll see that even with nuclear propulsion we could colonize the galaxy. The best way to do it would be to send out self-replicating machines.

Recently developments with neuro-synaptic chips and chips that can be implanted into the brain and various research hints to me that humans will not be bound to bodies in the future.

Brains on a chip. Synthetic brains. That's what the future could be. But who knows. Maybe we will be transplanting brains or something. Maybe using nanomachines.

* - here's a link about the potential that life could have existed billions of years ago:
io9.com - A Game-Changer in the Search for Alien Life: "All stars have planets"...

There's really so, so much. I think ET has visited. Highly likely, imho.

The only problem, of course, is why don't we know? That's the can of worms. I can't say for sure that what I say here is true. Maybe I'm crazy. It's just what I feel in my gut.

I just have heard too many people say "I saw such and such and it..."

Too hard to tell myself they're all crazy or liars or disordered or mistaken or, but...

I do think that if ET has visited and the truth of this is being buried that we will eventually find out anyway. But there's a possibility I'm just wrong. Perhaps hallucinations and hysteria and mental disorders and all these other problems we face have turned us away from the truth that we're alone. It's really a stretch of hte imagination that we're alone. Hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy. Hundreds of billions of rogue planets. Billions of earth-like planets. Many more moons and asteroids and comets and planets and dwarf planets and so on. Giant gas clouds. Billions of years of expanding and exploding stars. So many goldilocks zone potentials in that time. There's so, so much.

Still, there's the possibility we're alone. Can't rule it out. Just seems contentious.

Maybe Seti will find ET but it'll turn out the UFOs are all hallucinations/lies/etc. Or maybe NASA will find something. But what if we never find anything???? Would be kinda lonely.

reply to post by BenReclused


There are stars, even in our corner of the galaxy, billions of years older than ours. Our science is wrong. Et was here before humans, before many cycles of humans, and earth is a project. Case closed!

Originally posted by AthlonSavage

The only thing preventing Extraterrestrials from being here on Earth, is the human presumption made based on its main stream scientific beliefs/understanding that the speed of light is fixed quantity.

If one day Human science finds out that this presumption was completely wrong, then it would mean that not only is it likely Extraterrestrials have visited Earth in in the past they are here now, and have been here for a long time.

While I'm happy at the prospect that warp travel 'may' actually one day be possible (yet to be proven). The lack of warp drive is not the only thing that could prevent aliens from visiting.

Others reasons include:

1. Life is rare and intelligence as an evolutionary tool is rarer, we are the first intelligent species to evolve
2. Others have existed but have evolved and then gone extinct before we evolved so had no reason to come here.
3. They are so far away they have no idea we exist.

Knowing it can be done makes it feasible. It doesn't make it likely, or support that it has already happened.

I think human's fascination on ET needs to be stopped.

Now before anyone freaks out or anything hear me out.

Whether we could even perceive them with any of our known or unknown senses I don't know.

I do believe the fascination with ET is detrimental to any kind of contact scenario. Here is why.

Nobody helped those ET get off their planet. Nobody swooped in on a flying saucer and ended their social injustices, economic problems, political problems, etc. No outside source ended their poverty and hardship.

The point being, if they exist, they got to where they are by themselves.

So in the end...what does it matter if they are real or not? How is discussing a hypothetical going to help us get to where we dream we can be?

So I say forget ET, look around the world and join together and find common goals that are actually reachable. At some point, we will be the ET, and I think we will come to the same conclusion that intervention would be like taking an important experience away from any other race we encounter.

With that said, yes I believe in ET. I believe ET have been around before we were. Hell I'll go one step further and say ET are probably a part of us. I believe everything is connected. From the chair I'm sitting in, to the people who do evil around the world.

I think its a group effort, and I have faith that eventually, we will know it as truth one day.

reply to post by cconn487

Ccon, I agree that ET cannot be a savior. ET cannot be a religion. However, we don't know all the factors going on in our local universe. For all we know, we have relations to ET. The odds of survival for an intelligent species might be low. There're plenty of reasons that we could benefit from contact. Do you think we've benefited from contact between the different human races on earth? What would you say if one of the human races on earth decided to isolate itself and tell the others to stay away?

And if ET was exploiting us or we were willingly allowing it, wouldn't you want to stop it?

There're so many angles. Bottom line, I agree with you that humans will have to be on their own just as other creatures on earth and learning the hard way is usually the best way, but if there're signs that ET is afoot, we shouldn't ignore them. Granted, UFO evidence is shaky, but the preponderance of evidence pouring in from all directions about the potentials for earth-like planets and pre-life chemistry even on Titan (a MOON!!) and the evidence there was water in Venus's and Mars's past all hints to us that some form of ET is likely out there. It's our natural urge to know and understand. People will always look up and wonder. They will always create religions. They will always create philosophies and ask unanwerable questions and dig for answers wherever answers might be found.

Your argument is like saying there should be no religion or no science fiction or no dreaming or no philosophy or no artists. But these "flaws" are part of what makes us inquiring human. We wouldn't be the same if they were absent. In fact, I don't even dare to wonder what we would be.

Just remember that not everybody abuses the opportunity they were given in life. Many people take the things they were given and improve the world and improve themselves. Over the course of our history, I'd say that most people scrape a living for themselves. At least when amazing people happen, we retain some of what they produced. Selfish as we're and purblind, we at least have sense enough not to die. So every scrap of knowledge and wealth is used. But the question is whether dragging our feet and shatting on the ground is enough for humanity to survive long-term.

Average lifespan of a species is 2 million years. Lifespan of humans? About 2 million years.

Lastly, all this interest in ET and in space HELPS the space industry by giving it presence. And there're many more people who're interested in $$$$$ and will eventually invest. I mostly agree with people who say that spending money on our life here on earth is better than throwing it at space. But the thing is, historically, there were always pioneers and business people taking chances. And more importantly, we're spending trillions every couple of years to protect ourselves from ourselves. Is that not also a rather large splinter in our eye? Despite that, military endeavours in the past usually result in technological innovation that eventually spills into industry and benefit future generations.

This this talk reminds me of kids. They're loud and annoying. But...

if an actual physical craft was travelling at or in excess of speed of light.. would a speck of space dust still be considered potentially lethal?

..until we see an actual physical 'ET' craft come down and land, how do we even know we're dealing with physical beings?