US Soccer Referee dies after player

This is why we have a court of law and different degrees of murder.

I suspect he will get involuntary manslaughter. I highly doubt this teenager meant to kill the person he attacked. He was hot headed and angry and yes, must be held accountable for his actions.

But it's for a court to decide. I just can't make an educated statement as to what I think should happen with this young man's future - with only the article to inform me of this unfortunate death.

I'd have to be sitting on the jury - with all the evidence and past behavior - staring me in the face. In order to make a definitive statement as to whether I think he deserves life in prison. I definitely don't think this particular case warrants a death sentence. There are certain cases - where I do think the death penalty is warranted - but they are far and few between - and this just doesn't sound like one of them. IMO anyways.

Cirque

Originally posted by yourmaker
You were never a 17 year old who got angry and made a mistake?

Albeit this is a HUGE mistake..

I know I punched someone before out of anger and I can admit it.

This REALLY goes to show the frailty of the human body though and why I URGE you to practice martial arts to be able to anticipate a punch such as this.

That's just dumb.

So people have to learn martial arts to be prepared when some snotty little 17 year old punk decides to punch you?

Go for it, I'll be watching from the real world. What's left of it.

Jeez, when I was 17 I was plotting my devious next pissup and getting on with chicks. Never once did it cross my mind to engage in random violence with the attitude of hitting someone as hard as possible for the slightest thing. We called that a king hit and it was the work of sheer cowards and bullies.

I don't even think I had it in me to do that.

Yet today we have kids parading around like mini gangsters and all hard with neck tattoos and other bs that makes them hard, and we have non stop king hits. People being killed with one punch.

No, this generation is doomed.. the herd needs culling.

reply to post by muse7


I'm not saying I agreed with it....but you can't just condemn him from one mistake...if it was only one mistake.

Like I said, I've had some pretty dodgy referees in my time and it was commented in the article that this wasn't the first time this ref had been attacked.

What if he was truly a bad and unfair referee? A ref is like a judge, jury and executioner in a football/soccer game...and if you are unfairly judged then you are going to react. If this kid has no history of violence and is generally a good kid then all the other circumstances need to be considered before you judge him. Yes, he made a mistake....but he didn't pull a gun out and shoot the guy with intention to kill him. His frustration caused him to act out aggressively and if it was a once off and had never happened before then you need to consider that maybe this kid does not deserve the full arm of the law!!!

edit: If he is generally a morally sound person then imagine what he is feeling. I know it's a big IF...but not everyone in this world is morally corrupt and good people sometimes make bad mistakes.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Tylerknight

 

Wow, way to jump to conclusions!!!

Some refs can be absolute retards....and quite rude and unfair also....sometimes even obviously favoring another team. I've come quite close myself. In the heat of the moment...especially in rival games or important games emotions can overflow.

You have no idea of the circumstances and are sensationalising it more than needed. Yes, the kid deserves to go to jail for it....but unless you know the full circumstances to go blaming his parents or trying to make him look like a monster may be unfair.

edit: Read the article and it states he's been attacked before!!! One would suspect that an honest and fair referee would maybe not receive such treatment!!!

edit on 5-5-2013 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

Too right. The old fart deserved to be king hit and killed by a 17 year old punk over a stupid ball game.

Good call, almost missed that info!

Cheers.

reply to post by winofiend


I'm not saying it's right wino....I'm just saying we don't know the kid and we don't know all the circumstances. I agree he shouldn't have punched the ref but who's to say the ref didn't deserve to have some sense knocked into him.

We.Don't.Know.All.The.Circumstances.

How many times do you see or hear someone and think to yourself that they deserve to be punched for being such a loud mouth or a smart arse or a school bully....and you wish someone would put them in their place?

What if this is like that type of situation? What if he was a truly unfair ref? What if he was completely biased to the other team? What if he said something to the kid when giving him the yellow card? Even made a racial remark?

We. Don't.Know.All.The.Circumstances!!!

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
The way I look at this is that this kid, nor the community, will be better off if he goes to prison.

He got angry, threw one punch and the man happened to die. Imagine the lesson he learned from that.

Throw the kid in prison and he will become angrier, get in more fights, hit the weights....and then release him into the community where he will almost certainly be a liability.

Prison is not always the best solution.

So what's the solution then? Let him off on probation and keep our fingers crossed that he doesn't go off on anyone again?

I see a striking similarity between the attitude of the guy you're replying to and the magistrates of children courts where i live.

Poor little blighters, had a bit of a nasty upbringing. Mum and dad were never there to give little billy a cuddle, so we, as society, should all gather around for a big hug and a nice mug of hot chockie. That's the ticket. None of this going to prison for violent crime. Why the more violent the crime, the more pain little billy is in, obviously. So we should all tread on egg shells and whisper so as to not scare the wee blighter. There there, wipe away those tears young billy. Here, have a football. Go.. Kick.. Be Free.. Yearn not for that goal, young billy.. Here, Have a free one.

Moronic stupidity.

Now I know not all kids who are unfortunate enough to be introduced to the legal system at an early age are 100% responsible for the situations they find themselves in. But you know full well before, during and after you king hit someone that it's not going to end up with lollypops.

Originally posted by winofiend
So people have to learn martial arts to be prepared when some snotty little 17 year old punk decides to punch you?

They don't have to but it would be recommended if you value your life.

Go for it, I'll be watching from the real world. What's left of it.

The real world is violent.

Jeez, when I was 17 I was plotting my devious next pissup and getting on with chicks. Never once did it cross my mind to engage in random violence with the attitude of hitting someone as hard as possible for the slightest thing. We called that a king hit and it was the work of sheer cowards and bullies.

I don't even think I had it in me to do that.

Yet today we have kids parading around like mini gangsters and all hard with neck tattoos and other bs that makes them hard, and we have non stop king hits. People being killed with one punch.

No, this generation is doomed.. the herd needs culling.

I never hit anyone who didn't/doesn't deserve it.
When I admitted I punched someone out of anger it's not like that person was innocent like this ref.

Also i'm not saying that this person doesn't deserve some type of justice either,
i'm just pointing out that every 17 year old has a lot more to deal with now then when we were 17 even..
And that mistakes are made, only in this day and age we hear about them a lot more.

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Oh, yes I did stupid stuff when I was 17, including getting into a major fight with my dad and punching a locker. (Good dent in it to.) But I have *never* struck another person in anger and certainly did not sucker punch a person because of a *minor* (yes, a yellow card is MINOR) disagreement. So this goalie gets yellow carded for pushing an opposing player - considered and egregious breaking of the rules - gets caught and punches the adult he blames for catching him.

Never said he wasn't a quick-to-violence idiot. Only he made a mistake many of us here could have made.

Originally posted by muse7
I remember when I was 17, not too long ago actually. I remember when I got mad I slammed some doors and threw around some things. But never did it cross my mind of punching someone out of anger.

Some people absolutely deserve to be punched in the face. And I did.
Never innocent though, and there is a huge difference between the two.

Don't play the i'm holier than thou card though
It 100% crossed your mind at a point in your life it had to,
Maybe not the old lady telling you to keep your music down but definitely the school bully or someone of that type in your life, it's only natural

reply to post by LightAssassin


Regardless of whether or not he has been hit before, the fact that someone was that angry at a call in a youth soccer game to hit someone is absolutely wrong. That is the point of a referee, to make calls even if not everyone agrees with them. If the player pushed another player then that warrants a call and the player is clearly a poor sport about it! Maybe blaming the parents is the wrong thing to do considering they didn't hit the ref, but it is still a poor excuse for a child and he had to have gotten his anger from somewhere.

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by muse7

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
The way I look at this is that this kid, nor the community, will be better off if he goes to prison.

He got angry, threw one punch and the man happened to die. Imagine the lesson he learned from that.

Throw the kid in prison and he will become angrier, get in more fights, hit the weights....and then release him into the community where he will almost certainly be a liability.

Prison is not always the best solution.

So what's the solution then? Let him off on probation and keep our fingers crossed that he doesn't go off on anyone again?

I see a striking similarity between the attitude of the guy you're replying to and the magistrates of children courts where i live.

Poor little blighters, had a bit of a nasty upbringing. Mum and dad were never there to give little billy a cuddle, so we, as society, should all gather around for a big hug and a nice mug of hot chockie. That's the ticket. None of this going to prison for violent crime. Why the more violent the crime, the more pain little billy is in, obviously. So we should all tread on egg shells and whisper so as to not scare the wee blighter. There there, wipe away those tears young billy. Here, have a football. Go.. Kick.. Be Free.. Yearn not for that goal, young billy.. Here, Have a free one.

Moronic stupidity.

Now I know not all kids who are unfortunate enough to be introduced to the legal system at an early age are 100% responsible for the situations they find themselves in. But you know full well before, during and after you king hit someone that it's not going to end up with lollypops.

Spot on my friend.

I simply cannot believe that some people here are saying that this menace to society should be able to walk free after killing a man, over a freaking yellow card.

Nothing hurts more than losing your freedom and being stuck in a cell for 20 hours a day. Hopefully the prosecutors give him the punishment he deserves.

reply to post by muse7


I don't believe anyone said that he should just walk free.

My opinion is that young people, such as this offender, are not bettered by doing time in prison...where they learn to be real criminals, and where we spend tons of tax dollars to help them become hardened.

Does that not seem just as ridiculous?

It's the equivalent of shoving a kid full of drugs in an attempt to cure ADD. It may not work and the results could be even more heinous than the original offense.

But instead we will act like pompous fools and scream at the top of our voices "off with his head" in our unintelligent, yet completely expected, attempt to emotionally knee-jerk our way to a conclusion that in no way betters our children or our community.

reply to post by muse7


Muse, I'm not saying he should walk free. But consider all the circumstances before releasing the guillotine....please.

Many an innocent, good, people have made a mistake...and regretted it seconds later...even myself.

It's a little hard to brand him a menace to society when you have no knowledge of who HE is and what he has done previously....or is capable of achieving. I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished but, as mentioned, we don't know all the circumstances and why he snapped like that...for all we know the ref coaxed that reaction out of him with something else that was said while brandishing the card.

If the kid has a violent past then I am all for putting him behind bars for a very long time....but if he isn't, and he's not associated with gangs, and he's a good student, and he just got caught up in the moment didn't even mean to hit him hard...then morally living with knowledge that you killed someone is already going to be taxing on someone who is 100% genuinely remorseful for their actions. Jail time may not be a necessity for someone who was good who had a bad moment. Just this action alone may have drastically affected him.

Like I said, we don't know all the circumstances. Basically, a 17 year old hit a ref (but didn't knock him unconcious, which tells me the hit may not have been that hard) and the ref has then later gone into a coma and died. What if the ref already had a previous condition that the punch merely aggravated? An autopsy is still yet to be done....cause of death is still unknown.

So many unknowns. Stop judging people until you have ALL the facts.

Although, despite my initial position I am definitely all for making an example of someone to stamp out violence towards officials in youth sports, in general.

As one article states, in the end...it is just a game....

So I feel there should be a definite punishment, and the severity depending on previous behaviour.

Wow, very harsh comments. Obviously he didnt think a punch was going to kill the Ref, Hell Ive been in soccer matches where the Refs just had it in for you, He defintely should get punished, but not by the death penalty, The guy was 17, it wasnt like he wanted to kill the guy, just get his anger out. very bad choice indeed

I wonder if Obama will ban soccer in the US now.

A sad event for sure, and I hope some new regulations and penalties will be created to deter this from happening again. Justice? Yes and I have mixed feelings on punishment because of the kids age. I guess his remorse or lack of in court will enable the judge to make relevant decision on sentencing. I hope the kid regrets his actions immensely and will serve his due conviction as well as some type of family help to the victims friends/family perhaps.