Thank You CIA

Originally posted by Hopechest

And who in the CIA would have the balls to pull it off and for what reason? Was there some political advantage for someone there to not have Kennedy in office? Unless you think Allen Dulles had resentment for being fired as the CIA director after the Bay of Pigs then I don't see who there would have anything to gain from his death.

We simply do not know.

The Joint Chiefs presented "Operation Northwoods" to Kennedy and you really believe they or their CIA underlings would hesitate to kill a president?

Originally posted by EricR

Originally posted by Hopechest

And who in the CIA would have the balls to pull it off and for what reason? Was there some political advantage for someone there to not have Kennedy in office? Unless you think Allen Dulles had resentment for being fired as the CIA director after the Bay of Pigs then I don't see who there would have anything to gain from his death.

We simply do not know.

The Joint Chiefs presented "Operation Northwoods" to Kennedy and you really believe they or their CIA underlings would hesitate to kill a president?

Well they were just proposals. Not sure if they were the definitive advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. I simply do not know the men involved so its possible I suppose. I was only saying that it couldn't have been a CIA plot....it certainly was someone's though.

Remember that the new director of the CIA was picked by Kennedy so he wouldn't be involved which means the agency wouldn't be officially involved. Maybe there were some rogue agents but I don't see the motivation.

Had Operation Northwoods been approved I'm sure the CIA would have done it because it was ordered by the President himself.

Another thing I'm wondering about, is why is the CIA giving money to Karzai's government? Although I disagree wholeheartedly with foreign aid in general, I fail to see why a clandestine organization is handing over the moolah. In and of itself, this makes it dirty money. Something like that should be appropriated funds and not a re-distribution from an agency. This one stinks to high heaven.

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by darksky

 

They are a necessary evil and often times have to do things that are immoral for the greater good. ...They associate with the nastiest people on earth and sometimes have to be nastier to get their job done.

Sickly sweet. Put down the kool aid and step away from the cult doctrines. I haven't heard so much defensive cognitive dissonance since I was in a church where members were so deceived of grand futures that they would put their wedding rings in the offering dish. The CIA tree retains members with rotten fruit for the inhabitants of the USA and as an exploitative agency needs to be constantly watched. Do not get snowblind from the tactics of their agents, who are wolves in sheeps clothing. Remember they are humans not gods. The naive schmoozing doesn't pass some basic bamboozle tests. Metric that?

And you wonder why people don't listen to this:

JOHN STOCKWELL

That's just the wiki version. In reality, one of their very own has concluded that there's absolutely no need for a clandestine agency that has virtually no accountability. After all, if your job is to keep everything secret, why should you tell your boss? The CIA has been doing independent operations for ages. Let's face it. And what adds fuel to the fire is that they have no qualms about conducting money-making operations. If they generate their own funds, they become an independent entity (kind of like what the federal government is doing). And being a clandestine agency that supposedly reports the federal government, they have immunity for their missives.

MORE JOHN STOCKWELL

Over 6 million killed by CIA secret wars!!

reply to post by lynxpilot


I believe there was CIA involvement, of course there was. And the FBI, that sob Hoover absolutely hated both brothers. And that guy knew everything. JFK hated his guts and was going to retire him in his second term. Hoover knew that, it was a given that you retire from the agency at 70. The only way to extend his service would be by a presidential mandate.

But you cannot discount the assistance in Dallas. This was a coordinated execution. So, what I think is that there was a deep dark conspiracy that a few rollers had control over. Then there were players that had no idea wtf was going on. It was a top down operation. All choreographed right down to the Secret Service jacking the body.

I would think we would have a lot more deathbed confessions at this point. But alas we do not.

Originally posted by lynxpilot
CNN ARTICLE

Karzai dismissed questions about why such money, not in state coffers, was needed for what he described as government expenses.

It's no wonder we never get anywhere. CIA unloading money indiscriminately when it's not even being requested, so they can prop up a puppet government.

It's called "Bribery".

It's illegal within the US, but outside the US the laws of the US don't apply..

Originally posted by extraterrestrialentity
Aren't we in some serious debt? If so, then why the heck are officials giving away money like free candy? I bet that cash goes to people that give money to terrorist organizations to help them get what they need to attack us, which would in turn, cause new laws to be created; for our "safety" you know.

The US mafia, err, government, has very good tactics to introduce new laws. And giving money to other countries is their best tactic.

I don't think its to make more laws, though that could be an aspect of it. They dole those billions upon billions out so that it can be funneled where they want it (or a portion of it) to go, or, in order to foment wars leading to significantly *more* money being spent, into the pockets of those they choose.

Sadly the world is so corrupt and violent now it needs a world wide nuclear war to wipe it clean and maybe start again. Religion and corruption have put us on the point of no return, Imagine a visiting alien species looking at us and our history to what it is now, you can just see them shaking their 'head' and wiping us out to put us out of our misery.

We think we are so clever yet most of our actions are so primitive it borders belief that we think we have evloved.

Between this and the money they send elsewhere to enrich themselves they could have saved the elderly and youth of their generation rather than relegating them to public systems in favor of the grown childs current baby boomer needs.

Why are baby boomers so selfish unlike their parents were?

reply to post by Hopechest


I wholeheartedly and fundamentally disagree with many of the things you've said and you are quite wrong about many things historically. I don't have the time now to refute it all but I don't really consider it worth it anyway, I've read many of your posts hopechest and the word naive always comes to mind.

I know all about the Kennedy administration and the Cold War, I've studied it for years. I never said it started with the CIA and their actions, nor where they alone guilty of these things. But it is absolutely true that the leadership in the CIA along with military brass tried tricking Kennedy into a full blown invasion of Cuba after he had changed his opinions on the right course of action. The buck stops with the President, of course. This is why Kennedy, although surrounded by warmongers, took responsibility for the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Even though it was hardly his fault. Operation 40, started under the Eisenhower administration and under his guidance, was established by Allen Dulles the Director of Central Intelligence (de facto head of the CIA). Dulles, Bissell, and Cabbel were forced to resign for a reason. It's long been established that the CIA/military brass ordered the land invasion of Cuba and set it up to fail, believing Kennedy would then invade. He did not, thank God. Otherwise WWIII may have already been waged.

I'm not saying you can't get nasty. But I disagree that we must break the law, take part in illegal activity, or become a monster ourselves to defeat such evil. I think that's absurd. Such things perpetuate evil, not destroy it.

And you're d*nm right Reagan knew all about Iran/Contra. Right down to the drug running and illegal smuggling of narcotics into this country.

Keep defending the bad guys. You're quite good at it. Unfortunately it doesn't work on the educated and intellectual.

reply to post by PatriotGames2


Almost needless to say, but I'm right there with you. I'm perplexed as to why anybody would be an apologist for the CIA. Their record stands on its own enough. There's enough expatriots of the agency for the novice researcher to realize what a failure the organization is, much less for people who have had closer contact. By design, it is fatally flawed. An agency that makes its living keeping what they do under wraps, with extremely tight controls on information that gets released, add to that the fact that another element of their operation is disinformation, cannot be good.

reply to post by lynxpilot


You are very right.

There's no reason, in a democratic constitutional republic - a system of government set up to ensure things like this do not happen - that the CIA, or any other intelligence agency, cannot do their job while still being answerable to someone. The way things stand now, and have stood for a long time, there is no oversight, Congressional or otherwise, of the CIA.

And we see where this leads. Any rational person would not and could not defend this, unless they're sympathetic to totalitarian minded regime and rule.

Looks like the whole situation on the middle east is starting to come undone. Someone screwed up big time. I am sure elements within the US government made some huge mistakes and now the US is losing control over the entire situation. It is becoming a mess of bad real quick.

I have not seen an entire situation implode for the US in a long while. The old CIA method of playing all the `bad guys` off each other has appeared to totally backfire this time in a way which is different than in the past. it seems all the so-called bad guys really are fighting each other this and taking America for everything it has got at the same time. Usually America gets some kind of benefit in the end but this time Uncle Sam might actually get screwed over.

It is kind of funny actually that the president of Afghanistan is taking all that money hand over fist and using it to secure his own power, all the while not using it to benefit the USA. I am willing to bet, if he is smart, he has been using some of that money to give the Yankees a hard kick in the butt when the nation is fully under Afghan again. Several middle eastern nations are going to want to have influence in Afghanistan and it is going to take some money to make the influence useful for Karzi.

The US does nothing but make mistakes, we seem to not be able to competently carry out too much without some huge mega blunder, due to us becoming so big headed and sectioned that we have the " let the next guy get it " mentality.

You think I am joking, you government / military workers will understand what I mean, we are micromanaged beyond control. Ever heard that saying " If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself " yeap, thats what we haven't been doing.

I don't feel like writing the rest of what I was thinking, here's 5.00 USD, someone finish for me...