Retailers tracking you by your CELL PHONE!

So it seems innocent enough on the outside, but what doors this opens (which are more likely than not, already open, is pretty concerning. If retailers can do this, how could our government be exploiting this? Believe it or not, I saw this on Fox news, seems as if it's something TPTB wouldn't want the mainstream media sharing with us. Something we all want and most have, sharing the most private of information, where we are, what we're doing. If you were able to get deeper into the phone (I'm sure there are plenty out there that can do it) there would be far deeper implications...

Retailers tracking you

This Black Friday some malls in the US will be rolling out a new technology that allows retailers to track customers' cell phone signals while they're shopping, according to CNN Money. Retailers in Europe and Australia are already using it — and analysts expect it to take off nationally. This Friday the Southern California mall Promenade Temecula and Short Pump Town Center in Richmond, Virginia are going to be giving the cell phone monitoring a test-drive.

reply to post by Hr2burn


All I can say is "National do not call list". Just go online and join up.

www.donotcall.gov...

"The National Do Not Call Registry gives you a choice about whether to receive telemarketing calls at home. Most telemarketers should not call your number once it has been on the registry for 31 days. If they do, you can file a complaint at this Website. You can register your home or mobile phone for free."

I'm not sure of all the implications you are indicating. I'm all ears. Thanks.

Haven't they been doing this for years with RFID chips in clothes?

All it takes to screw this up is one person wandering round the Mall with a cell phone blocker.

Peace and quiet for all those who get annoyed at people glued to their screen, blocking shelves and bumping into other shoppers.

Can't track what's not there.

Radical idea: leave the phone at home.

I dont even know where mine is. I guess if it rings I'll find it.

Originally posted by nerbot
Haven't they been doing this for years with RFID chips in clothes?

All it takes to screw this up is one person wandering round the Mall with a cell phone blocker.

Peace and quiet for all those who get annoyed at people glued to their screen, blocking shelves and bumping into other shoppers.

Can't track what's not there.

What RFID tags in clothes? I think you have been listening to a little too much AJ.

The "tracking" so-to-speak is not that intrusive. It's like "phone with serial 940938594 went to store x and spent 10 minutes there, proceeded to go to story Y for 20 minutes."

Surfing the web with tracking cookies is far more intrusive.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Radical idea: leave the phone at home.

I dont even know where mine is. I guess if it rings I'll find it.

:-)

A metalized, anti-static bag like the type used for motherboards and videocards makes an excellent temporary stealth tool. Slide the phone inside, fold the bag closed and it's lights-out for tracking. Decloak periodically to check messages if you're on-call.....

Nothing wrong with this. They are tracking your RF in your phone. While non prepay customers may one day be at risk, there is nowhere near the data integration today to do anything with that other than get generic shopping habit information.

In a restaurant you track "covers". In a hotel, you call it "Occupancy Rate". It is just a way to find out the numbers of folks and time spent in a store.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Nothing wrong with this.

You really believe that? Knowing that...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
They are tracking your RF in your phone.

The above is true?

I think some are truly missing the point, or perhaps the bigger picture about this. It's not that companies should not track activity...it's that there is PERSONALLY identifiable portal to portal location information about an individual available to them (or anyone else who "officially" wants that information)

Most of us, as Americans, espouse the premise of anonymity..and, let's face it, sometimes we as HUMANS just want to be left the hell alone. It seems, we as HUMANS can't be left the hell alone anymore when everything and everyONE wants some way to track us.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by nerbot
Haven't they been doing this for years with RFID chips in clothes?

All it takes to screw this up is one person wandering round the Mall with a cell phone blocker.

Peace and quiet for all those who get annoyed at people glued to their screen, blocking shelves and bumping into other shoppers.

Can't track what's not there.

What RFID tags in clothes? I think you have been listening to a little too much AJ.

Or maybe I've been informing myself so I don't stay ignorant....

RFID - You have already been chipped

Wal-Mart Radio Tags to Track Clothing

Wise up and read.

Originally posted by boncho


What RFID tags in clothes? I think you have been listening to a little too much AJ.

Do you live under a rock? Marks and Spencers, a major British retailer, has just rolled out a program to RFID tag every single item in all 760 of it's stores. That includes clothing, food products and other "hard" goods. And they are just one of many. I could pop down to the local ASDA and guarantee just about anything i pick up off the shelf will be tagged, same with Sainsburys, Tescos, Morrisons, BHS, and on and on. Catch up.

Based on this initial deployment's success, M&S' executives determined that RFID had the potential to track inventory within its stores. In 2004, the retailer launched a major RFID effort, deploying a system to tag and track some clothing items at several locations (see Marks & Spencer to Tag Items at 120 Stores). The trial, partially funded by the U.K.'s Department of Trade and Industry as part of the New Wave Technology program, involved tagging roughly 10,000 items, including men's suits, shirts and ties (see Marks & Spencer Expands RFID Trial). Here, too, RFID proved it was up to the job, and the company has since expanded the deployment to 550 U.K. stores and additional types of clothing, such as men's formal and casual trousers, jackets and shirts, as well as ladies' knitwear, coats, formal and casual trousers, and suits.

www.rfidjournal.com...

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Nothing wrong with this.

You really believe that? Knowing that...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
They are tracking your RF in your phone.

The above is true?

I think some are truly missing the point, or perhaps the bigger picture about this. It's not that companies should not track activity...it's that there is PERSONALLY identifiable portal to portal location information about an individual available to them (or anyone else who "officially" wants that information)

Most of us, as Americans, espouse the premise of anonymity..and, let's face it, sometimes we as HUMANS just want to be left the hell alone. It seems, we as HUMANS can't be left the hell alone anymore when everything and everyONE wants some way to track us.

The bigger point is that, as if this moment, the technology is not in place to match your RFID to you as a person without complicity from your carrier. And if you are a prepay customer, even that won't work. If you aren't a prepay customer, wise up. I am a CFO and still use a prepay phone. Why pay them exorbitant fees only to have them screw me around? I just pay a regular sub-$50 a month fee for unlimited usage, and full privacy.

All of you who are worried about privacy....give up your cell phone plan. Problem solved.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Nothing wrong with this.

You really believe that? Knowing that...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
They are tracking your RF in your phone.

The above is true?

I think some are truly missing the point, or perhaps the bigger picture about this. It's not that companies should not track activity...it's that there is PERSONALLY identifiable portal to portal location information about an individual available to them (or anyone else who "officially" wants that information)

Most of us, as Americans, espouse the premise of anonymity..and, let's face it, sometimes we as HUMANS just want to be left the hell alone. It seems, we as HUMANS can't be left the hell alone anymore when everything and everyONE wants some way to track us.

Can you show where the data being collected, or observed is not anonymous?

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by nerbot
Haven't they been doing this for years with RFID chips in clothes?

All it takes to screw this up is one person wandering round the Mall with a cell phone blocker.

Peace and quiet for all those who get annoyed at people glued to their screen, blocking shelves and bumping into other shoppers.

Can't track what's not there.

What RFID tags in clothes? I think you have been listening to a little too much AJ.

Or maybe I've been informing myself so I don't stay ignorant....

RFID - You have already been chipped

Wal-Mart Radio Tags to Track Clothing

Wise up and read.

edit on 30/4/2013 by nerbot because: (no reason given)

I would suggest you "wise up and comprehend" what you are reading instead. The RFID tags you claim are in Walmart clothing for the purposes of tracking us is for inventory control.

Starting next month, the retailer will place

removable

"smart tags" on individual garments that can be read by a hand-held scanner.

I highlighted the most important part in that sentence.

Inventory loss due to shrink, or because of mismanagement can be a pretty hefty percentage in the retail trade. When dealing with large corporations, with massive supply channels, you are talking about millions upon millions of dollars in losses. RFID tracking can bring the corporation huge savings which far outweighs the relatively inexpensive capital cost to install or deploy these systems.

Likewise, the same technology used for marketing purposes, can translate into huge dollar amounts. Having clear, concise data that is cogent in presentation, that outlays all the specifics in key demographics means the difference of $100 compared to $10,000 in advertiser dollars. Or, in the case of your own marketing, the differences in sales at your retail locations.

Essentially, if I try to sell advertising but have limited data, my potential clients will balk at my offer. Let's say I sell ad space, 100,000 will see it per day, they are aged 15-25, and... Oh, wait, that's it sorry, I don't have anymore data. Please buy!

Now, take the same product, and I say, 100,000 people will see it per day, they are aged 25-35, 72% of those people are women, 87% of them are gainfully employed and have $79,000 in expendable income, 63% spend $15,000/year on designer handbags, make-up, perfumes, jewelry. 51% shop three times a week. 70% are automobile owners and 81% believe that they need to see a product in a magazine, on a billboard, on TV to consider it's value is relative to its social impact, and its cost is justified.

That piece of advertising space I was trying to sell, in the first scenario, is worth the standard rate of $5 CPT (CPM), or whatever it might be. Meaning I can sell it for $500/day if it's say a billboard. I am selling it for a month so I have to convince someone to sign a $15,000 contact. In the first scenario, this is gonna be tough. I'm gonna have to beg, plead, threaten, harass, whatever I have to do to sell space that isn't that sellable.

Now, in the second scenario, I can target a small group of companies that offer beauty products, designer handbag and watch companies, as well as a handful of other products (probably consumables) for young professional women. Luxury car manufacturer, insurance, travel agencies, I almost forgot those as well.

Say going rate is $5 CPM.... Screw that! I'm jacking my rate to $8, and that's only if a bidding war doesn't start for the space provided.

Now, I call all those companies I listed, I offer them the $24,000 month long contract. I don't even have to try. If any of them are rude I say "no problem, I'll be calling your competitor, by the way, in the future, please do not enquire about our services as we are not interested in your business."

This is where the other person says, "Oh what have I done?"

Yep, some advertising vehicles are that valued...

Wal-Mart workers will be able to quickly learn, for instance, which size of Wrangler jeans is missing, with the aim of ensuring shelves are optimally stocked and inventory tightly watched.

While the tags can be removed from clothing and packages, they can't be turned off, and they are trackable. Some privacy advocates hypothesize that unscrupulous marketers or criminals will be able to drive by consumers' homes and scan their garbage to discover what they have recently bought.

You were being misleading trying to claim they are putting RFID tags on the clothes we wear. As if they were part of our daily wear dress. It simply isn't true. You are not being tracked the way tin foil hat wearers claim you are... Simple as that.

From the technology vendor…

We do detect the signal between devices and the network to understand movement trends, but only when you are in a location that uses our technology.

It sounds like they analyze the signal between the device and the cell tower and probably use the phone's IMEI as the unique identifier for each mobile device.

When asked for personal data, we had to say no.

In 2011, we were unfortunate enough in the UK to see rioting on the streets in London and some of our other cities. Sadly, a number of our shopping centers were involved, and some were very badly damaged.

We were approached by the police to help identify who the perpetrators of that attack were. Whilst we very much wanted to help, it was actually impossible for us to do so as our systems can not identify any of the individual people involved; our product simply does not work that way.

www.pathintelligence.com...

Of course, if the police were to get a court order to gather data from BOTH the technology vendor AND the phone company, they would have everything they need to identify an individual's travels anywhere in the vicinity of the vendor's antenna system.

Next step could be that cities put these on street corners to anonymously track people for any variety of public safety reasons. Then when crimes are committed, that anonymous data could be subpoenaed from the path database and the carrier.

...It’s not that farfetched.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


The bigger point is that, as if this moment, the technology is not in place to match your RFID to you as a person without complicity from your carrier.

That's absolutely true. I think, for the Feds, under the auspice of national security, would not find it terribly difficult to get carrier compliance.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
And if you are a prepay customer, even that won't work.

Agreed.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
If you aren't a prepay customer, wise up. I am a CFO and still use a prepay phone. Why pay them exorbitant fees only to have them screw me around? I just pay a regular sub-$50 a month fee for unlimited usage, and full privacy.

I can't agree with you more. I, too, will only use pre-pay services. However, we are firmly in the minority when taken in Nationwide circumspect. The majority still believe that large corporation CAN be trusted with their privacy concerns. Why would they? It runs counter-intuitive to their business model to actually WANT to keep your information sacred.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
All of you who are worried about privacy....give up your cell phone plan. Problem solved.

Again, I agree....but in here (most importantly with respect to me) you're preaching to the choir.