Western Australia Skies Under Attack from HAARP Activity Over Aust/US Naval Base in Australia.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by R3zn8D
and finally to come full circle to the Op's point:

HAARP can probably hit Australia... their One-hop buoy is just off the southeast coast of New Zealand, and depending on where the ionosphere that day, a couple of watts of electricity may make it down there =)

Oh, no, not at all. First, the location of the one-hop buoy is at the conjugate point from Gakona. The only way you could move the other end of the point would be to pick up the installation and move it physically. It's not that HAARP's "targeting" the one-hop buoy, that's where it's going to end up no matter what you do. You can adjust the end-point a tad by painting the wave more east-west than they do, or you could move it more north by flipping the geo-paint to the north side of the electrojet. But you've got a very limited set of conjugate endpoints you can target with the array, and that's defined by the location of the northern electrojet.

Next, you'll never see the day "a couple of Watts" make it down there, first, you can't really use a power number, it's more a power density thing. It might be correct to specify it in nanowatts/meter^2. Second, the distance is huge, and there's that square-of-the-distance thing to deal with. It's not a crow's flight from Gakona to the conjugate point riding the field line, you have to factor in the entire magnetic loop distance, which is maybe 6-7 Earth diameters for that one. Also, when they say 'high ELF/VLF amplitudes', they're talking maybe 30 Watts output for a geo-paint, 8-10 Watts for an amplitude paint. Then you only get the part that penetrates the ionosphere that will ride down the field line, then you lose more going back through the ionosphere at the south end. When you get done, you have to pick up the h-field component with a very sensitive receiver. If you look closely at your link you may note that you've got -15dB picoTeslas of h-field component left on a good day.

If you are an Aussie, you should be bitching about the Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) and all that AUSCANZUKUS "Five Eyes" ECHELON data sharing going on...

Well, we both share in that one. And you've got a virtual *load of fun in the northwest corner of Australia that we 'borrow' from you guys for sub comms.

The conjugate location is based on where the magnetic field lines touch the ground. This fluctuates with the shape of the van allen belts, and their shape is subject to change due to electrojet pumping and sounding rockets tearing "holes in heaven."

Detached ionospheric bubbles, plasma seeding, and magnetospheric modification could be our end, or lead to the "years of noise" predicted in the webbot program, but that wouldn't be the first time:

2.2.1 Papyrus Ipuwer [7] Forsooth, the land turns round as does a potter’s wheel. The towns are destroyed. Upper Egypt has become dry. All is ruin! The residence is overturned in a minute. … Years of noise. There is no end to noise.

I have seen plent of documentation that HAARP can hit Arizona, USA and Florida, USA, so to say it only transmits to the conjugate below Christchurch NZ would be incorrect IMO.

As far as the power hitting that conjugate location, I'll take your word for it.

Finally, Hi5 on the Harold Holt station mention...

For those interested in learning about HAARP, read the Freedom of Information Act report first, then check out my research.
Biggups to ATS for this doc:
HAARP Research and Applications - Above Top Secret UFO FOIA

Then check out The Radiation Database (page under construction)

Originally posted by R3zn8D
The conjugate location is based on where the magnetic field lines touch the ground. This fluctuates with the shape of the van allen belts, and their shape is subject to change due to electrojet pumping and sounding rockets tearing "holes in heaven."

Not at all. The van Allen belts change shape with changes in the magnetosphere. The magnetic field lines tend to meander for various reasons, mostly with solar wind variations. You should note that steady-state solar wind changes do not cause a lot of change in conjugate end point locations, it's more something you get during transitions when the solar wind is changing in amplitude or is buffeting and you get asymmetric deformation of the magnetosphere.

It would be more correct to say that the van Allen belts change shape for the same reason conjugate endpoints meander. One does not cause the other.

Electrojet pumping also has little to do with the conjugate endpoint. It is, however, the means by which HAARP generates the VLF you're talking about. As I mentioned before, you can get a very small bit of displacement by changing where you do your pumping; it's the center of the pseudo-radiator that's the northern endpoint, not the IRI per se. However, given that you can't get more than 15 degrees of deflection and only so much of the electrojet is available to you to pump, you can't move that north endpoint a lot.

It should be mentioned that the conjugate endpoints do not move very much at any rate. A bit of thought would tell you that if they did, the one-hop buoy would have had to have been the one-hop airplane. After all, the buoy is anchored to the sea floor.

...or lead to the "years of noise" predicted in the webbot program, but that wouldn't be the first time

I think of that as being the input of dozens of HAARPists. Years of noise, indeed!

I have seen plent of documentation that HAARP can hit Arizona, USA and Florida, USA, so to say it only transmits to the conjugate below Christchurch NZ would be incorrect IMO.

And what documentation might that be? Your OP was about being able to 'hit' the NZ area, that's only by riding the field line. More locally, you can hit any part of the ionosphere within 15 degrees of zenith. If you make a mirror and bounce off it, you can hit areas about 150km away from Gakona, due to the restricted angles you've got, but you couldn't possibly "hit" Florida with it.

At any rate, the one-bounce reflected power density is in nanowatts/meter^2. Not exactly earth-shattering. Unless you're talking about ELF/VLF generation, in which case you'll be 'hitting' huge swaths of ground, but at far worse power densities.

As far as the power hitting that conjugate location, I'll take your word for it.

It's in your cite.

Finally, Hi5 on the Harold Holt station mention...

There's actually several more. The entire northwestern corner is full of our crap. Although personally, having been in several of those places, I prefer Alice Springs.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by R3zn8D
The conjugate location is based on where the magnetic field lines touch the ground. This fluctuates with the shape of the van allen belts, and their shape is subject to change due to electrojet pumping and sounding rockets tearing "holes in heaven."

Not at all. The van Allen belts change shape with changes in the magnetosphere. The magnetic field lines tend to meander for various reasons, mostly with solar wind variations. You should note that steady-state solar wind changes do not cause a lot of change in conjugate end point locations, it's more something you get during transitions when the solar wind is changing in amplitude or is buffeting and you get asymmetric deformation of the magnetosphere.

It would be more correct to say that the van Allen belts change shape for the same reason conjugate endpoints meander. One does not cause the other.

Electrojet pumping also has little to do with the conjugate endpoint. It is, however, the means by which HAARP generates the VLF you're talking about. As I mentioned before, you can get a very small bit of displacement by changing where you do your pumping; it's the center of the pseudo-radiator that's the northern endpoint, not the IRI per se. However, given that you can't get more than 15 degrees of deflection and only so much of the electrojet is available to you to pump, you can't move that north endpoint a lot.

It should be mentioned that the conjugate endpoints do not move very much at any rate. A bit of thought would tell you that if they did, the one-hop buoy would have had to have been the one-hop airplane. After all, the buoy is anchored to the sea floor.

...or lead to the "years of noise" predicted in the webbot program, but that wouldn't be the first time

I think of that as being the input of dozens of HAARPists. Years of noise, indeed!

I have seen plent of documentation that HAARP can hit Arizona, USA and Florida, USA, so to say it only transmits to the conjugate below Christchurch NZ would be incorrect IMO.

And what documentation might that be? Your OP was about being able to 'hit' the NZ area, that's only by riding the field line. More locally, you can hit any part of the ionosphere within 15 degrees of zenith. If you make a mirror and bounce off it, you can hit areas about 150km away from Gakona, due to the restricted angles you've got, but you couldn't possibly "hit" Florida with it.

At any rate, the one-bounce reflected power density is in nanowatts/meter^2. Not exactly earth-shattering. Unless you're talking about ELF/VLF generation, in which case you'll be 'hitting' huge swaths of ground, but at far worse power densities.

As far as the power hitting that conjugate location, I'll take your word for it.

It's in your cite.

Finally, Hi5 on the Harold Holt station mention...

There's actually several more. The entire northwestern corner is full of our crap. Although personally, having been in several of those places, I prefer Alice Springs.

edit on 27-4-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

I like you, tell me about the Humpty Doo transmit station, and a special salute for disagreeing with me without coming off as arrogant... a rarity these day, thank you.

reply to post by R3zn8D

The chemtrail/debunk battle is an exercise in retardation, and a semantic game... it is a trail, it is full of mysterious untested chemicals... and soon will be replaced by the camalina plant biofuel that should produce no contrails after they start routing flights around ISSR's.

Since the jet engines burn what is essentially #2 DIESEL FUEL, the exhaust would be nearly the same as the truck I drive everyday on the roads...It is NOT full of mysterious untested chemicals...Quit posting such wackadoodle nonsense...

reply to post by R3zn8D

This is a word game. They are seeded but don't produce rain? Hogwash: On the Possibility of Weather Modification by Aircraft Contrails, 1970:

You have ZERO CLUE!!! Since contrails are essentially cirrus clouds, they do not produce rain. Cirrus clouds are usually indicative of a weather front approaching, which usually means RAIN will be arriving shortly...

Since we have this little gem in the OP:

Bradley Harding don't expect any rain anytime soon, The Biggest HAARP I've ever seen,right now, from a westerly its covering Perth very soon, Look up. and check it out, nasty nasty. I won't take any pics, you all know whats going on. It is insane

We can patiently await a full retraction of this patently absurd rubbish...the only thing INSANE is someone looking up at the sky at an exhaust trail emanating from an engine 35K feet up and thinking that might kill them...you are not helping matters by posting lies.

Originally posted by totallackey

reply to post by R3zn8D

 

The chemtrail/debunk battle is an exercise in retardation, and a semantic game... it is a trail, it is full of mysterious untested chemicals... and soon will be replaced by the camalina plant biofuel that should produce no contrails after they start routing flights around ISSR's.

Since the jet engines burn what is essentially #2 DIESEL FUEL, the exhaust would be nearly the same as the truck I drive everyday on the roads...It is NOT full of mysterious untested chemicals...Quit posting such wackadoodle nonsense...

yawn... put your money wear your mouth is.

Please provide me with a list of ingredients in Jet-A, Jet B, and JP8+100, JP8+100LT, and/or whatever other blends of fuel/additives currently in use.

Can't? Then STFU.

Bottom line: additives in the fuel are used to kill bacteria in fuel tanks, prevent coking, reduce ice formulation, and reduce static electricity buildup. These additives commonly include TRADE SECRET ingredients in their MSDS sheets.

I posted this previously, however since you just waltzed in here and therw your pecker on the table, I'll show you mine:

In 1989, the Propulsion Directorate began evaluating jet fuel additives to reduce coking and maintenance costs in aircraft engines and fuel systems. In 1994, the directorate selected an additive, designated SPECxAID 8Q462, to test on F-16s with Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-200 engines. The resultant additized fuel, designated JP-8+100, raises the fuel’s thermal stability up to 100∞ F hotter without increasing its propensity to form coke. The two-year test program using JP-8+100 resulted in a significant reduction in coke-related maintenance. To date, thousands of Air Force aircraft, as well as numerous aircraft of allied nations, successfully use JP-8+100. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) recently approved the use of the Betz Dearborn SPEC×AID 8Q462 fuel additive and its commercial equivalents for all Pratt & Whitney commercial aircraft turbine engines.

Source: Operation Clarity
And: AMRL Evaluation of the JP-8+100 Jet Fuel Thermal Stability Additive

Image of SPEC×AID 8Q462 fuel additive MSDS with Trade Secret ingredient:

Source: www.emedco.info...

I would feel silly if I were you. This shvt is basic, copyright trumps public health EVERYTIME.

Same thing happened with the EPA review of fracking.
Every company was asked to submit their chemicals for review, in the end, after court orders, only 70-80% of the chemicals in use were ever reported, all the rest were trade secret.

IT'S A BIG CONSPIRACY.

My bawls.

Finally, your comment about #2 diesel is mute due since I already told you they are burning a 50/50 blend of biofuel (camelina plant/JP8) and a 100% biofuel that.

Jet Biofuel Enlisted For Contrail Control March 5, 2013

The chemtrail debate needs elevating, this shvt is basic, WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY ADDING TO THE FUEL?

Show me a list, or stay out of my way.

Originally posted by totallackey
reply to post by R3zn8D

 

This is a word game. They are seeded but don't produce rain? Hogwash: On the Possibility of Weather Modification by Aircraft Contrails, 1970:

You have ZERO CLUE!!! Since contrails are essentially cirrus clouds, they do not produce rain. Cirrus clouds are usually indicative of a weather front approaching, which usually means RAIN will be arriving shortly...

Since we have this little gem in the OP:

Bradley Harding don't expect any rain anytime soon, The Biggest HAARP I've ever seen,right now, from a westerly its covering Perth very soon, Look up. and check it out, nasty nasty. I won't take any pics, you all know whats going on. It is insane

We can patiently await a full retraction of this patently absurd rubbish...the only thing INSANE is someone looking up at the sky at an exhaust trail emanating from an engine 35K feet up and thinking that might kill them...you are not helping matters by posting lies.

1. Your first paragraph was a copy/paste from Mick West's contrailscience iFAQ which I already re-debunked earlier in this thread. Hogwash you say? I take the word of the American Meteorological Society and the Weather Modification Association over Mick West anyday. This is a study of ship tracks and their effect on cloud-seeding:


18th Conference on Planned and Inadvertent Weather Modification
91st American Meteorological Society Annual Meeting
Thursday, 27 January 2011
ams.confex.com...
Video:



Joint Session 1: Modification of Marine and Supercooled Stratocumulus
ams.confex.com...

Marine stratocumulus cloud decks—Natural laboratories for inadvertent and planned cloud seeding experiments
605/610 (Washington State Convention Center)
Bruce Albrecht, Univ. of Miami/RSMAS, Miami, FL

Marine stratocumulus cloud decks off the west coast of continents provide an ideal environment for using cloud seeding—inadvertent and intentional--to address basic science questions concerning aerosol-cloud-precipitation interactions. Marine stratocumulus systems are often associated with relatively slowly evolving synoptic and surface conditions. Thus point, line, or area sources of aerosols that are introduced into these cloud systems can produce cloud signatures that can be compared with steady conditions in the surrounding clouds. In some cases, causes and effect experiments are possible. Cloud modifications of two types have been considered. The first is a brightening of clouds associated with increases in CCN as cloud water is distributed among smaller droplets than those in the environment and possible increases in liquid water path (LWP) as increased aerosols reduce precipitation efficiency relative to that in the environment. The possibility that enhanced evaporation of cloud droplets near cloud top may also play a role in the modification process has also been considered. The second type of modification involves increasing precipitation efficiency by introducing giant CCN into clouds that are susceptible for modification. One complication that affects the interpretation of stratocumulus seeding experiments is that mesoscale structure in the form of closed and open cells can complicate the resulting response of the clouds to aerosol perturbations. Further, natural cloud-aerosol-interaction process may mask the variability associated with seeding sources.
In this presentation an assessment of our current knowledge and understanding of marine stratocumulus modifications associated with ship emissions (ship tracks) and coastal sources of aerosols will be made. Recent attempts at intentionally seeding marine stratocumulus clouds—true cause and effect experiments-- will be discussed and followed by an evaluation of proposals for seeding marine stratocumulus clouds for science process studies and for possible modification of the Earth's climate.
ams.confex.com...

Also see:

NASA has identified water vapor emission into the upper atmosphere from commercial transport aircraft, particularly as it relates to the formation of persistent contrails, as a potential environmental problem. Since 1999, MSE has been working with NASA-LaRC to investigate
the concept of a transport-size emissionless aircraft fueled with liquid hydrogen combined with other possible breakthrough technologies.
ntrs.nasa.gov...


2. I don't think chemtrails or HAARP are attacking anyone, and have not lied. Please be more specific when taking stabs in the dark.

The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is currently the world’s premiere ionospheric modification facility, operating a 3-30 MHz antenna array with a 5.1 gigawatt effective radiated power. Here is the short history of how and why it was made:

It doesn't have that range, it's more like 2.8-10MHz, not 3-30.

Also that is definitely an ERP number. You can't say it puts out 5.1GW as you do on the opening page "...is a 5.1 gigawatt electromagnetic testing facility", nope, it's more a 3.2MW one. ERP is not output power. Trying to imply it is is at best disingenuous.

Weinberger is just dead wrong in "Air Force Aims for Weather Control", she gets a lot of tech wrong, if it's complex at all, and this is yet another one. It's not anything to do with weather. You can't even pick it out of the article she's quoting. I occasionally drop in to DTI under another name and rip her up. You'd think they'd have a technical consult vet her stuff. One of her confederates who does a lot better at getting the science right used to be on ATS. Haven't seen him for a while.

MIRAGE is real, though, they run that project development in a hell hole on the east coast.

Originally posted by Bedlam

The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is currently the world’s premiere ionospheric modification facility, operating a 3-30 MHz antenna array with a 5.1 gigawatt effective radiated power. Here is the short history of how and why it was made:

It doesn't have that range, it's more like 2.8-10MHz, not 3-30.

Also that is definitely an ERP number. You can't say it puts out 5.1GW as you do on the opening page "...is a 5.1 gigawatt electromagnetic testing facility", nope, it's more a 3.2MW one. ERP is not output power. Trying to imply it is is at best disingenuous.

Weinberger is just dead wrong in "Air Force Aims for Weather Control", she gets a lot of tech wrong, if it's complex at all, and this is yet another one. It's not anything to do with weather. You can't even pick it out of the article she's quoting. I occasionally drop in to DTI under another name and rip her up. You'd think they'd have a technical consult vet her stuff. One of her confederates who does a lot better at getting the science right used to be on ATS. Haven't seen him for a while.

MIRAGE is real, though, they run that project development in a hell hole on the east coast.

1. agreed on 2.8-10, however director of HAARP said:

The main MHZ frequency range (High Frequency Band 3 – 30 MHZ) of the powerful IRI transmitter is slightly different from the 13.56 MHZ needed to break down the methane. However it is very powerful with a 5.1 Giga watt effective radial power at maximum output. The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) at HAARP transmits over the range 2.8 MHZ to 10 MHZ slightly less than the 13.56 MHZ used to break down methane but as mentioned previously if the IRI transmitted a 10 MHz carrier waves modulated by a 3.56 MHz signal it will generate an Upper Side Frequency of 13.56 MHz which is the methane destruction frequency (Penguin Dictionary of Physics 2000).

Source: Project LUCY

2. yes that's ERP, and the power is 3.6 MW, I'll rephrase that on my page later.

3. WHERE on the east coast, please answer that.

Originally posted by R3zn8D
1. agreed on 2.8-10, however director of HAARP said:

The main MHZ frequency range (High Frequency Band 3 – 30 MHZ) of the powerful IRI transmitter is slightly different from the 13.56 MHZ needed to break down the methane.

The general definition for HF radio is 3-30 MHz. That's what he's saying. HAARP is an HF transmitter, but it only covers 2.8-10MHz of the entire HF band. You couldn't beat 30MHz out of it with a plow line.

It's 2.8-10 for a number of reasons. BAE's exciter wasn't fast enough to do the synthesis much faster than 10MHz, because the design is sort of plebeian and now a bit dated. They only had so much budget, though, so you have to forgive them. The final amps are also limited to 2.8-10MHz, and while they might have a bit of extra on the exciter, the finals won't go for it. The antennas are also sort of limited to that band, there are actually two sets of antennas for each assembly, a low and high band antenna for each polarity, they're relay switched. To get 10-30MHz, you'd have had to have maybe two more per polarity. And a much more complex and expensive final.

2. yes that's ERP, and the power is 3.6 MW, I'll rephrase that on my page later.

It's 3.6MW out of the final, but the actual radiated power peaks out about 3.2MW due to losses in the array and tuners. But that's if you're running both polarities. For a single polarity, which is generally how you use it, you get half that or 1.6MW.

3. WHERE on the east coast, please answer that.

New Jersey, for God's sake. A worse assignment you will never see.

ETA: using the modulation trick, you only get 1/4 of the output power into that 13.56MHz sideband. And you generally don't use both polarities at the same time, so you will be outputting 1/4 of 1.6MW, or 400kW. That's if you get the modulation just right. The actual 13.56MHz power downrange is less than that by a twitch. Aiming it's also a pain, you get more side lobes and a crappy main lobe because you're controlling the phase differentials of the 10MHz carrier but not the 13.56 sideband.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by R3zn8D
1. agreed on 2.8-10, however director of HAARP said:

The main MHZ frequency range (High Frequency Band 3 – 30 MHZ) of the powerful IRI transmitter is slightly different from the 13.56 MHZ needed to break down the methane.

The general definition for HF radio is 3-30 MHz. That's what he's saying. HAARP is an HF transmitter, but it only covers 2.8-10MHz of the entire HF band. You couldn't beat 30MHz out of it with a plow line.

It's 2.8-10 for a number of reasons. BAE's exciter wasn't fast enough to do the synthesis much faster than 10MHz, because the design is sort of plebeian and now a bit dated. They only had so much budget, though, so you have to forgive them. The final amps are also limited to 2.8-10MHz, and while they might have a bit of extra on the exciter, the finals won't go for it. The antennas are also sort of limited to that band, there are actually two sets of antennas for each assembly, a low and high band antenna for each polarity, they're relay switched. To get 10-30MHz, you'd have had to have maybe two more per polarity. And a much more complex and expensive final.

2. yes that's ERP, and the power is 3.6 MW, I'll rephrase that on my page later.

It's 3.6MW out of the final, but the actual radiated power peaks out about 3.2MW due to losses in the array and tuners. But that's if you're running both polarities. For a single polarity, which is generally how you use it, you get half that or 1.6MW.

3. WHERE on the east coast, please answer that.

New Jersey, for God's sake. A worse assignment you will never see.

ETA: using the modulation trick, you only get 1/4 of the output power into that 13.56MHz sideband. And you generally don't use both polarities at the same time, so you will be outputting 1/4 of 1.6MW, or 400kW. That's if you get the modulation just right. The actual 13.56MHz power downrange is less than that by a twitch. Aiming it's also a pain, you get more side lobes and a crappy main lobe because you're controlling the phase differentials of the 10MHz carrier but not the 13.56 sideband.

edit on 28-4-2013 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

Very informative, thank you again.

What are your thoughts on the 100 gigawatt EISCAT 3D slated to be completed in 2018 in Tromso Norway? (formerly called HISCAT)

reply to post by R3zn8D




So what does this video discussing cloud seeding have to do with chemtrails or HAARP?

Your first paragraph was a copy/paste from Mick West's contrailscience iFAQ which I already re-debunked earlier in this thread.

And where exactly did you debunk that as you say?

The West Australian Chemtrail Action Network, is getting alot of photographs and video footage, of what many Western Australians are saying is the most intense Chemtrail, HAARP activity ever seen.

They may be monitoring plate movements in western Australia.

Earthquakes

Major quakes stronger than 6.9 occur every 20 to 40 years and are more prevalent in the southwest area of Australia.

Assuming HAARP technology has evolved as far as seismic signature analysis.

Originally posted by R3zn8D
What are your thoughts on the 100 gigawatt EISCAT 3D slated to be completed in 2018 in Tromso Norway? (formerly called HISCAT)

It's not exactly the same sort of instrument. It's very flexible, which is something HAARP isn't. And it's a radar as well, which HAARP isn't.

reply to post by R3zn8D

yawn... put your money wear your mouth is.

Since you are the one making outlandish claims regarding chemtrails, I will leave that to you...

Please provide me with a list of ingredients in Jet-A, Jet B, and JP8+100, JP8+100LT, and/or whatever other blends of fuel/additives currently in use. Can't? Then STFU.

I can...here and here...since these are open source and have not been edited for the purposes of some crackpot blog, I trust these...

Bottom line: additives in the fuel are used to kill bacteria in fuel tanks, prevent coking, reduce ice formulation, and reduce static electricity buildup. These additives commonly include TRADE SECRET ingredients in their MSDS sheets.

So freaking what? Do you expect people to not take of expensive equipment? Do you think COCA-COLA is going to give their trade secret formula to anyone? Trade secrets are just that...And OF COURSE the blends ARE TESTED prior to being used...

Image of SPEC×AID 8Q462 fuel additive MSDS with Trade Secret ingredient:

For this source, you have taken a picture, performed who knows what insofar as editing, and posted it on your own blog...HA HA HA HA!!! You expect anyone to take to you seriously?

As far as the use of BIOFUELS, they are using them in cars and trucks here on the ground...it would not surprise me to learn they are being adapted for airplanes...makes sense to me...

1. Your first paragraph was a copy/paste from Mick West's contrailscience iFAQ which I already re-debunked earlier in this thread. Hogwash you say? I take the word of the American Meteorological Society and the Weather Modification Association over Mick West anyday. This is a study of ship tracks and their effect on cloud-seeding:

My first paragraph was to inform everyone here you are full of baloney...cirrus clouds do not produce rain...in response, you refer again to some claptrap about stratocumulus clouds...

No one is denying CONTRAILS exist and MAY have some effect on the climate...but so does a fart in the wind...

Originally posted by omega man
Why do you think your ignorance and closed minded approach is correct?

Because you just keep posting photos of CONDENSATION trails.

How come no amateur meteorologist have detected any of these dreadful chemicals that we are all supposedly being sprayed with. Or gardeners or farmers found it during analysing soil? Or any city air-pollution monitors spread throughout cities across the world? Ahh, yes; they've all been threatened or paid off.

Are pilots doing this unknowingly or in collusion with TPTB? If doing it unknowingly they would surely notice extra weight on the aircraft that was unexplained by cargo inventory and the effect on aircraft handling.

Where is this stuff being made? And how are truck loads of it being trundled around the nation without anyone seeing it? And these trucks NEVER have road accidents and spill their contents? How are tones of the stuff disguised in airports/air bases?

And why are there more trails than ever before?

1) There are more aircraft.

2) Their engine design is more efficient and more likely to create them than older engines.

Now, if you can answer some of these questions then the story will seem more plausible.

Mrs Chicken

reply to post by totallackey

...but so does a fart in the wind...

Those are the worst kind of chemtrails...

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by totallackey

 

...but so does a fart in the wind...

Those are the worst kind of chemtrails...

reply to post by R3zn8D




Okay, I will admit now that was funny...