Things Mrs Margaret Thatcher didn't do

reply to post by Parksie

What did you expect. The only adviser she listened to was Ronald Reagan. I can only assume she watched too many of his B-rated movies while discovering sexual fulfillment from self manipulation.

reply to post by HelenConway




I realise that and it does amuse me because they are invariably also the ones that keep

spouting that people with differing views are 'brain washed by the media where as

they are usually speaking from their own experience


All the posts complaining that she only helped her friends the rich, and how awful things

were in the north


Well i'm from the north east and certainly am not rich!!! I also have relations in the area

who were miners and shipyard workers who lost their jobs

reply to post by eletheia

The poll tax was introduced to replace a tax which was already in place called

"rateable value" but this applied to "owner occupiers" only. For example a house with

10 people living in it (and six of them working) paid the same as the house next door with

2 people living there (and only one working) social housing tenants were exempt. Now

was that fair ??

The poll tax was introduced in in an attempt to make it fairer for all so that everyone paid

equally for the council services they received

Anyone else older enough to remember ....

No the ‘rateable value’ of a property was used to calculate what your domestic rates would be and it did not apply to owner/occupiers only. It was considered a regressive tax because it took a greater proportion of the poor’s income than it did from the wealthy. To remedy this unfairness rates rebates were put in place for the poorer households of the country.

You use a dreadful analogy to explain the supposed fairness of the poll tax introduced by the tories. Curiously, you use precisely the same argument that the tories did when the poll tax was introduced. Your argument completely ignores the fact that the house with six people working has six people paying income tax, thus contributing to the society in which they are living.

What the poll tax actually did was charge a couple living in a 40 room mansion precisely the same as a couple living on a deprived council estate.

It was even more regressive than the domestic rates system it had replaced. The poll tax was never capped, and consequently there was a massive shift in the tax burden from the rich to the poor. The analogy used by anti-poll tax campaigners was that ‘a Duke would pay the same as a dustman’.

And now we have the council tax – also a regressive tax – because the poor pay a far larger percentage of their income toward the tax than the rich.

All of this is totally ironic considering that property tax has its origins in the ‘Elizabethan Poor Law Act of 1601.’ An act that formally enabled parishes to levy a property tax to raise money to provide relief for the poor and it remained in place until 1948, when the welfare state was created. Now of course we pay council tax for local services, and paying it, is often a struggle for the poorer members of our society.


And yes - I am certainly old enough to remember the poll tax.

reply to post by christina-66






The poll tax is not the same for people living in a 40 room mansion as that of someone

living in a deprived council estate.

I may not be the best way that it is implemented regarding the banding I agree....but it is

levied at different rates (called bands) for terraced, semis, detached, number of rooms etc.

So what is your opinion of labours John Prescott who wanted to increase council tax for

those who had managed to have a patio, conservatory and even a nice view

I often wondered who decided 'what a nice view was' after all one mans meat is another's

poison!!...

reply to post by HelenConway

I do - but I realised long ago in this thread that the ' bullies' want to jam their thoughts right or wrong into the head of any one who thinks differently. Waste of time even answering them IMO - well done for trying, but they do not even read your response

If this thread was ‘for bullies’ it would have been closed down. It is however, posted in the ‘Politicians and People’ forum and the subject matter is a woman, acknowledged by the msm, as being one of the most divisive political characters of the 20th century. So obviously this thread is going to be full of posters diametrically opposed to the opinions expressed in the op and with each other.

There are posts I agree with on this thread, but on another thread I may well strongly disagree with the same posters views and vice versa....but these posts are drafted by individuals....not some amorphous ‘they’....and certainly not by bullies.



One of the many things I really enjoy about ATS is heated debate – particularly when posts and op’s are considered, carefully thought out and the author goes to the time and trouble to present evidence for their views. There are many such threads and posts on this site.

Another thing I really enjoy about ATS is learning new information I had never been aware of and understanding perspectives I had never considered.

reply to post by eletheia


I beg your pardon? You are evidently confusing the poll tax with the council tax. The poll tax was levied per person NOT on the value of a property. So yes – a couple living in a 40 room mansion were indeed charged exactly the same as a couple living in a deprived council estate. Why the hey do you think so many people demonstrated against it?

And what in heaven’s name does John Prescott and a hypothetical tax that was never implemented have to do with this discussion?

Originally posted by ballymoney50
reply to post by Parksie

 

Maybe Arthur shouldn't have got them all to strike don't forget many families had to get help from other people because of he wouldn't let them go back to work, so i suppose there's more than one person to blame.

Thank you for posting Parksie

Yet help they most certainly got, from families rallying around to help their neighbours and charities set up within their own communities to help. Funny sort of behaviour when apparently there was "no such thing as society" eh princess?.

reply to post by Suspiria


Not forgetting the Family Allowance that they got each week either to feed and clothes the little princes and princess and thank-you for your complement i have just wiped a tear away

reply to post by christina-66





The 'poll tax/council tax' was what replaced rates and it covers your local amenities

eg. libraries, parks, swimming pools, community centres, refuse, transport, roads etc. and is

therefor the benefit of everyone whether you live in two rooms or twenty it is levied

per person

reply to post by eletheia

The 'poll tax/council tax' was what replaced rates and it covers your local amenities

eg. libraries, parks, swimming pools, community centres, refuse, transport, roads etc. and is

therefor the benefit of everyone whether you live in two rooms or twenty it is levied

per person

Are you quite sure you're old enough to remember this? I'm beginning to doubt it.

The real name for the poll tax is THE COMMUNITY CHARGE. The poll tax replaced domestic rates - and was levied per person - with no consideration of the value of the property.

The poll tax was replaced with the COUNCIL TAX by John Major's government.

reply to post by eletheia


Hi eletheia i have to say that in N.Ireland we don't have any pole tax or council taxes so i can't comment on these things. I remember thinking when it did come out it was really unfair when you counted up the amount of rates people paid each year it just didn't work itself out, the government are just greedy. I don't no why they just didn't keep the rates system? but as i said greed!!

to respond to your OP I would say that men and women are judged in life by the things they did do , not for the things they didn't do !

So we can forget everything that anyone in history didn't do ! because it simply didn't happen
and focus on the actions they did take and the effects caused by those actions !

and so to measure anyone's worth we look to the impact they caused and well I'm sure you don't need to know about the things she did do to the UK as they are well documented.

I barely remember her on TV when I was a wee kid being born in 82 so didnt really remember much about her on the news accept there were alot of changes and my parents raved on about her but that was it.

I know she alienated Scotland and most of the north and alot of the things she did directly affected people in my family and friends of my family.

So any person who holds a position of power then uses that to force people to the breadline , gets a big fat no vote from me !

I have been looking for the electoral vote percentages for her in Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland ,and much of the north but cant find them , I already assume that much like todays coalition government she had a majority vote in England and as a result she was brought in through electoral dictatorship like the current lot !

I would say that I dont like what she did to the UK and couldnt care less if people slag her off ! anyone who deals out negatives to the world , gets it back ten times stronger so she deserved it really !

reply to post by christina-66


christina i don't think the age of posters has anything to do with it as my children learnt this in school.

I had to listen to my 22yr old rate on about it last night when she was reading through the thread lol

Don't worry she was on most of the posters sides but she did give me a few eye openers that i had forgot about and because i'm a dweeb i'm keeping my mouth shut but she showed me a very good paper she wrote for uni about all we have been talking about, i should maybe let her do this for me lol

reply to post by sapien82


sapien82 people in N.Ireland do not vote for anyone on the mainland so there's no point in looking for it or maybe that's why you didn't find it we have are own ministers

Maybe i just don't understand why she was voted in twice, i'm looking from the outside in.

reply to post by ballymoney50


Your children learned a particular perspective in school given to them by either their teacher or a text book. The perspective given to your children will be skewed one way or another dependent on the experiences of the individual teaching or writing the text book.

Their opinions can in no way be regarded in the same light as the opinions of people who lived through Thatcher's government for themselves.

Hindsight can lend itself to clarity - but no matter how many years go by I will continue to shudder at the fundamental wrongs perpetrated by Thatcher's government and mourn the direction this country took following her time in power.

There is only one other political leader that makes my hair stand on end more than Thatcher - and that is Tony Blair. Thatcher's government was right wing however Blair's so-called socialist government was even more right wing than hers.

ETA - eletheia's post did ask if anyone else was old enough to remember.

reply to post by christina-66


Now you have said the name John the gimmie your money Matador i would have a right few things to say about him

Maybe i should start a new thread ammmmmmmm no i don't think, fluffy bunnies are on my next list as i like to shoot them.

Bring it on animal lovers, i'm only joking by the way i like to lighting things up now and again as i'm a dweeb and a princess

Just want to say that I was and still am possibly the only person in Scotland to think the Poll Tax was a good idea.

No I'm not rich and I don't live in a big house.

I do own my house and thats because any money I made I used to buy a house and not like some other people I know spend it on drink, cigarettes, holidays, cars, gambling, designer clothes, etc etc.

So by virtue of the fact I decided to save my money and buy a house I have to pay more tax than somebody else.

So for me the poll tax was far and away the most fair system to pay for local services.

I do not see what the size of your house has got to do with paying for local services. Just because somebody lives in a big house doesn't mean they are wealthy or have lots of spare money. Quite the opposite I would say.

I have a lot of ideas about tax, maybe I should start another thread, but one idea is that Inheritance ax should be ramped right up. My view is that once your dead then the assets you leave behind should be shared among the rest of the nation and not simply gifted to somebody of your choosing.

Anyway thats for another discussion.

-

reply to post by christina-66


Ah now christina you haven't been reading my posts well have you?

I said my children learnt this in school but my 22yr old daughter is doing politic's at uni and she let me read one of her papers on the MrsT years that she wrote but i understand what your saying about the ordinary high schools.

reply to post by bigyin


The current system still isn't fair. It's still a regressive tax and is more of a burden to those on lower incomes taking up a higher percentage of their earnings than the wealthiest. Bear in mind that the whole idea originally behind the concept of a local tax was to help the poor

But why would you pay more tax simply because you're a home owner? I'm a home owner too - but the house next door is rented - and the tenants pay exactly the same in council tax as I do.. Right now I pay what I regard as being a lot of money in council tax - because so many people are exempt from paying anything at all. Rather than paying for local services - or to help the poor - a large percentage of the council tax I pay goes to the local authority's CURRENT pension commitments (not even into a pension pot for the future) - and I do resent that.

I don't like any political parties - not one of them - but I do remember thinking that the lib dems idea of a local income tax was perhaps the fairest system.

reply to post by bigyin


Well said bigyin i would rather my father's money to have went to the nation than in my sisters pocket just because she was older than me, i might have had a bigger house and more horses though if i had have gotten my hands on it

My ex hubby and i did the same thing as you we didn't drink, smoke, gamble etc we just worked paid our taxes and got that bored with each other we divorced after 20 years of marriage but it was when the house prices exploded so i think it worked out quite well for the both of us and i'm now at a stage where i retired when i was 50 and i have a wee pension to boot, one of the lucky ones i suppose.