Let's Talk About True Sacrifice: Part 2

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That's not an answer. That's just muddled rhetoric with mysticism thrown in for good measure.

The mind may tell you it is muddled rhetoric to distract you from even bothering to try to comprehend it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You are an unorthodox Christian. Many Christians would deny you as a legitimate follower of Jesus.

That's because I'm not a follower of Christ. But, since YHVH made the boast that He was my God too, then it is my right to make commentary on His ideologies and policies.

Would you sell your soul to a child who has demonstrated neither worthiness or understanding of what it is to be a leader? Someone who possesses no concept of the complexities inherent in ruling an entire universe, but is entirely absorbed in what they themselves want from such a relationship?

I would not.

Yes, I would, because a/my soul is a useless fancy.

Would I sell my services to said child? Certainly not. That would be a waste of what I have to offer.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Then you are of the belief that you do not have a soul?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm of the belief that it doesn't matter if I do, or do not. The soul, like the appendix, is a vestigial piece of me.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Does it not stand to reason that if you do have a soul it is an essential part of who you are?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Not at all.

I have an appendix, but it is not an essential part of me.

Just because we have something, does not mean it is vital, or important.

It is only because theologians, Hollywood, and literature suggest that our soul is important that we think it is.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


The soul is tantamount to your consciousness. It is as you with anything will ever be. Maybe you should do some reading on it. I mean I can't really disagree with you, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the topic anyway.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Not at all.

I have an appendix, but it is not an essential part of me.
Just because we have something, does not mean it is vital, or important.
It is only because theologians, Hollywood, and literature suggest that our soul is important that we think it is.
~ Wandering Scribe

They the 'filmsters' invented for us the malformation, misinformation drama of human existance. Those of us disbelievers in the "Biblical Word?/CODE/Rote context" or at least mis-trusters decided with hollywookian inventions WILL tell us WHO we are and there PRESTO you are. Paying a ticket price to see us in action as humans acting out as humans. Hilarious. We have to watch ourselves to see a description of who and what we are. The Bible is out of context/date and about as real as Avatar, though the latter is more believable as it was the product of a James Camerons dreamsleep. (snicker).

reply to post by vethumanbeing


But that is explicit translation, and all translation is imperfect. Some things are best understood through explicit experience, otherwise we only have other peoples understandings to work with.

But perhaps we are a collective process of explicit experience, and "god" is an amalgamation of all that information. Perhaps Jesus with the absolute extreme of one particular instance of explicit experience, intended as a bookend for the eventual culmination of every experience in this period of existence.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
There is only God and God creates the illusion of separateness. He first creates the word. The word always appears presently in presence but the word says something like 'tomorrow' - then the division begins - God imagines a person living tomorrow. That person is created here and now (in presence as presence) and believed in. God believes in you as a separate person and worries about you in time.
The person who lives in time does not exist - only this moment exists and there are around 7 billion dreams happening in presence. The true sacrifice is when the person realizes that he does not actually exist - he dies but in reality, in truth, he never did exist. One returns to the source that it never left, one realizes that it was just a dream of separation

There is not only God as a prime being; its separated itself into as you say 7 billion enties HUMan not to mention the flora and fauna, 3 or 4 trillion of them. God imagines nothing concerning tomorrow, this was a massive event that happened in a nanosecond of realization (letting the chips fall where they may). God does not worry about itself AT ALL, the reason, it has particalized itself so significantly that even though It may feel a death of itself here and there, knows another birth will occure. Think of God as Master Manipulator regenetor Fred Frankenstein and you may be close to understanding it. We will return to Source, and the jokes on you that you did not understand your purpose in the ride.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Maybe you should do some reading on it.

Show me evidence that the soul exists.

Then, let me know which soul you're talking about.

The Neschamah, Ruach, Nephesch, Logos, Pathos, Ethos, Atman, Khat, Ka, Ba, Sheut, Ren, Ib, Akh, a person's shade, or some other concept?

See, when you say "soul" I'm sure a specific concept enters your mind. Research though, would point out that the soul is as varied and independent as the faiths of the world. Every faith has its own interpretation of what the soul is, why it exists, and what purpose it serves us.

Outside of metaphysical conjecture though, the thing none of them have done is proven its existence.

The soul is tantamount to your consciousness. It is as you with anything will ever be.

Consciousness, personality, ego, self-awareness. Those are the things which I attribute to what you've described. I don't need a "soul" to contain them all. I have a body for that.

I mean I can't really disagree with you, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the topic anyway.

Not sure either, you brought it up, ha ha.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

But that is explicit translation, and all translation is imperfect. Some things are best understood through explicit experience, otherwise we only have other peoples understandings to work with.
But perhaps we are a collective process of explicit experience, and "god" is an amalgamation of all that information. Perhaps Jesus with the absolute extreme of one particular instance of explicit experience, intended as a bookend for the eventual culmination of every experience in this period of existence.

Why not explicit if it is what I know in my heart to be a truism. All translation to another living being is going to be misinterpreted; as that is the nature of language, (diabolically set forth to do so as in planned and set misunderstandings; biblical missive Genesis). Individual experence doesnt allways have to coagulate or engender other people (helpfull I suppose to fast tract a solution; the dummies). We are a collective process of experience, it starts with your family and odd friends (that wolfpack you travel within for years as "WE CAN GET THIS DONE FIGURED OUT"). I am having an odd thought, God might just be the Akashic Library Living and collecting information. Those people, Jesus, Budda, Mohammed name at will are the keepers of a section of the library (BEST LIBRARIANS EVER). Margaret Mead (the anthropology section) etc. One card catalog starts with MOSES and Jesus is the bookend to that ideaform. So all extremes are bookends for or diving OFF boards for others. One cannot have one extreme without the other? Theres got to be a tipping point, as you say a culmination of every experience that has happened or will happen. When that occures, we progress to the next destination, incarnation, as in this world as we know it ends, and its individualized (the rapture did not happen) what else can it be; entirely personal AND WE SCRIPTED IT.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Maybe you should do some reading on it.

Show me evidence that the soul exists.
Then, let me know which soul you're talking about.
The Neschamah, Ruach, Nephesch, Logos, Pathos, Ethos, Atman, Khat, Ka, Ba, Sheut, Ren, Ib, Akh, a person's shade, or some other concept?
See, when you say "soul" I'm sure a specific concept enters your mind. Research though, would point out that the soul is as varied and independent as the faiths of the world. Every faith has its own interpretation of what the soul is, why it exists, and what purpose it serves us.

Outside of metaphysical conjecture though, the thing none of them have done is proven its existence.

The soul is tantamount to your consciousness. It is as you with anything will ever be.

Consciousness, personality, ego, self-awareness. Those are the things which I attribute to what you've described. I don't need a "soul" to contain them all. I have a body for that.

I mean I can't really disagree with you, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to the topic anyway.

Not sure either, you brought it up, ha ha.~ Wandering Scribe

What drives that body of yours, not just radiation from of all things the SUN/RA? Soul is spirit and an energyform; your 1960 quartz watch, never knew it was the seat of your soul did you (on your wrist talking to your heart) hope you did not lose it or at least pawned it. Actually the body weighs 3oz less after death than before (not inclusive any blood loss) but some sicko (Satan) made a study of this just to make sure he was claiming tangible rights to a THING measureable that was traded for; oh, the Devil/Satan invented the Pawnbroker IDEAFORM, the selling of souls; the bartering and trading of such AS IN personal MISFORTUNE can and willl be gained from your unhappiness; a food fuel source negative (what am I thinking).

reply to post by vethumanbeing

What drives that body of yours, not just radiation from of all things the SUN/RA? Soul is spirit and an energyform; your 1960 quartz watch, never knew it was the seat of your soul did you (on your wrist talking to your heart) hope you did not lose it or at least pawned it. Actually the body weighs 3oz less after death than before (not inclusive any blood loss) but some sicko (Satan) made a study of this just to make sure he was claiming tangible rights to a THING measureable that was traded for; oh, the Devil/Satan invented the Pawnbroker IDEAFORM, the selling of souls; the bartering and trading of such AS IN personal MISFORTUNE can and willl be gained from your unhappiness; a food fuel source negative (what am I thinking).

First, I can't really understand your unconfined stream-of-consciousness ramblings. Why is it that those who espouse some kind of metaphysical, mystical, or spiritual Higher Wisdom have the worst grasp of the ideas they're trying to convey?

Second, concerning the loss of weight after death... it was 21 grams, nor 3 ounces. And, further, the study that hack—Duncan MacDougall was his name—performed was so full of human error, sample size flaws, and poor recording of his results that absolutely NO ONE in the scientific, medical, or even legitimate spiritual field accepts his skewed, biased, and incorrect results as proof of anything.

Third, I never said the Sun (Utu, Šamaš, Rē, Helios, Apollo, Lúgh, Sól) was the driving force behind our body's mobility and existence. I wouldn't have done so, either. If I had, then where do people who have sun allergies fit in my spiritual worldview? Nope, I suggested that what you, or others' refer to as the "soul" is better defined as consciousness, personality, and our body's natural motor control.

When you say that the soul is an energy-form, but NOT the small-body radiation all humans, and most animals, possess, then I still must say: show me evidence of this energy-form that isn't small-body radiation. Until you show me it—and you CAN, because ALL energy can be measured in one way or another—then you're just espousing another theory, not a fact.

And my theory is just as valid as yours.

Finally, the Devil. I don't have a Devil. There is no God, no Satan, no Antichrist. Just the evil men do out of their own nature.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by vethumanbeing

What drives that body of yours, not just radiation from of all things the SUN/RA? Soul is spirit and an energyform; your 1960 quartz watch, never knew it was the seat of your soul did you (on your wrist talking to your heart) hope you did not lose it or at least pawned it. Actually the body weighs 3oz less after death than before (not inclusive any blood loss) but some sicko (Satan) made a study of this just to make sure he was claiming tangible rights to a THING measureable that was traded for; oh, the Devil/Satan invented the Pawnbroker IDEAFORM, the selling of souls; the bartering and trading of such AS IN personal MISFORTUNE can and willl be gained from your unhappiness; a food fuel source negative (what am I thinking).

wanderingScribe
First, I can't really understand your unconfined stream-of-consciousness ramblings. Why is it that those who espouse some kind of metaphysical, mystical, or spiritual Higher Wisdom have the worst grasp of the ideas they're trying to convey?

If my train of thought doesnt make any sense to you why do engage me? I can mail you the super secret "Ovaltine" code ring to decifer them..steam of conciousness is a French thing and I personally apologise for Sartre, Decartes and the whole of the nation blast them (those Normans they burned Joan of Ark and William the Bastard conquered Southern England).

WanderingScribe
Third, I never said the Sun (Utu, Šamaš, Rē, Helios, Apollo, Lúgh, Sól) was the driving force behind our body's mobility and existence. I wouldn't have done so, either. If I had, then where do people who have sun allergies fit in my spiritual worldview? Nope, I suggested that what you, or others' refer to as the "soul" is better defined as consciousness, personality, and our body's natural motor control.

Me TOO!. I actually have a sun allergy, too much Vitamin D gives me rashes and pinkeye or causes me to sprout feathers in the phoenixian bird fashion. Your motor is in your heart, wether you want to call it as consciousness is your problem. Its your soul that is the powerhouse. Heart/mind keep thinking. Brain can die, as long as your heart continues to by (water, blood, electromagnic/chemical energy transfer, you could live forever).

WanderingScribe
When you say that the soul is an energy-form, but NOT the small-body radiation all humans, and most animals, possess, then I still must say: show me evidence of this energy-form that isn't small-body radiation. Until you show me it—and you CAN, because ALL energy can be measured in one way or another—then you're just espousing another theory, not a fact.And my theory is just as valid as yours.
Finally, the Devil. I don't have a Devil. There is no God, no Satan, no Antichrist. Just the evil men do out of their own nature.

Theory; since when have I ever submitted a paper to J.A.M.A.? The soul is your compact individualized SELF. Small body? radiation is what powers your body, through the air you breath, the substances you eat photosysthesis; its a natural process that humans consume energy provided by the Sun whatever energy youd like to tag it as is well up to you (microwave energy). DEVIL nonexistant for you. God not existant for you. No Christ, anti-christ. Evil men that are still trying to kill the WORLD of the insect specie would best describe it.

What does this have to do with the topic? The topic is whether we should sell our souls to a god who has never demonstrated his priorities or his ability to make absolute sacrifices for the benefit of anyone other than himself. He is a leader who cannot be lead.

Please discuss.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

If my train of thought doesnt make any sense to you why do engage me? I can mail you the super secret "Ovaltine" code ring to decifer them..steam of conciousness is a French thing and I personally apologise for Sartre, Decartes and the whole of the nation blast them (those Normans they burned Joan of Ark and William the Bastard conquered Southern England).

I respond to you because you directed your psychobabble at me. I wouldn't need a decoder ring to translate your spiritual jargon if you just spoke in clear, concise sentences, instead of stream-of-conscious narrative which rushes all willy-nilly between ideas without a central focus. Oh, also, by the way, stream-of-consciousness is a narrative term that was coined by American psychologist William James; not something the French invented.

Me TOO!. I actually have a sun allergy, too much Vitamin D gives me rashes and pinkeye or causes me to sprout feathers in the phoenixian bird fashion. Your motor is in your heart, wether you want to call it as consciousness is your problem. Its your soul that is the powerhouse. Heart/mind keep thinking. Brain can die, as long as your heart continues to by (water, blood, electromagnic/chemical energy transfer, you could live forever).

The heart is a muscle; all muscles (as part of the nervous system) are ultimately controlled by the brain. At brain death the muscles (including the heart) cease to function. If you want to believe, like the ancient Egyptians, that the heart is the seat of the personality, and continues to subsist after brain-death, then that is your choice. It is the wrong choice, and one which had been disproved by modern biology; but it is your choice to make none-the-less.

Also, no thing is perfect, and no thing lasts forever. Our bodies biologically evolved to decay, and ultimately fail, just like everything else which exists. Death is a certainty, perhaps the only one in all of existence. You cannot live forever, no thing can.

Theory; since when have I ever submitted a paper to J.A.M.A.? The soul is your compact individualized SELF. Small body? radiation is what powers your body, through the air you breath, the substances you eat photosysthesis; its a natural process that humans consume energy provided by the Sun whatever energy youd like to tag it as is well up to you (microwave energy). DEVIL nonexistant for you. God not existant for you. No Christ, anti-christ. Evil men that are still trying to kill the WORLD of the insect specie would best describe it.

Eating is not photosynthesis. Humans don't perform photosynthesis; we cannot directly absorb sunlight and use it for sustenance like plants do.

Small body radiation is another term occasionally used for the black-body radiation that humans and other existent things emit as infra-red energy (most typically). This radiation, however, is not what powers the human body.

Your sentence: "DEVIL nonexistant for you. God not existant for you. No Christ, anti-christ. Evil men that are still trying to kill the WORLD of the insect specie would best describe it." doesn't make a lick of sense.

Maybe try re-writing it, with more concise clauses, clearly defined subjects and objects, and try not to lose your train of thought halfway through. It might be easier to understand what you were trying to say then.

Anyway, I think I'll take your advice. Seeing as your metaphysical mumbo-jumbo is just that: empty of substance, and chock-full of woo, I'll just ignore your replies from here on out, as you don't know what you're talking about.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by AfterInfinity


We should totally sell our souls to a God who has "never demonstrated his priorities or his ability to make absolute sacrifices for the benefit of anyone other than himself." If we can distract such a pitiful leader from trying to orchestrate the world, simply by giving him a nonexistent piece of colorful light, why wouldn't we?

The longer God is distracted by a metaphysical disco-ball, the more time humans have to lead the world out of the religious Dark Age, and into a scientific Golden Age where nobody bases their lives, actions, or opinions on what God wants; instead thinking solely about what would be best for the world as a whole.

God can have my soul, as long as He let's His more intelligent creations, us, have final say on the world, and how we live, and what is best for our species.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

God can have my soul, as long as He let's His more intelligent creations, us, have final say on the world, and how we live, and what is best for our species.

What make you believe he doesn't give us the final say?

Unfortunately the "less intelligent" creations are the minority in this world... and the Minority doesn't rule...

reply to post by Akragon


Oh sure, serve him or die.