Report: Ohio courts illegally jailing the poor

Originally posted by NotAConsumer
They should only be allowed to put them in jail for failure to appear in court if the person was officially notified of the court date. Addresses change all the time, in my case I don't have a permanent address so this could effect me one of these days due to my student loans.

It is your responsibility, per your agreement you made with the loan company, to keep them informed of your residence. Re-read your terms of agreement. That is no excuse.

As for a criminal issue or a bench warrant, if you are bouncing around residences, then once it catches up to you, you present your case to the judge. If this is a one time thing, a vast majority of judges will recognize that fact and won't hold it against you. It is amazing what happens when you own to responsibility and are honest.

If by chance you get some ignorant judge, you press the issue up further and defend your rights and innocence.

Well I have given them a mailing address to reach me, And I have notices from previous neighbors saying that they are still getting my mail a year later from loan companies.

Is it my responsibility to give every new company that buys my loans my new address. by that time the whole world would know where I live. I would like some privacy.

Was it in the agreement that I lose some of my privacy too such as my address???
And in that case becoming homeless would warrant an arrest for failure to inform the loan companies when i fail to appear in court?

LIKE I SAID YOU SHOULD HAVE TO BE OFFICIALLY INFORMED to have to appear in court if you are being sued.
Is that not how it is? The loan company sues you and if anyone sues you dont you have to be informed before they issue a failure to appear in court?

Originally posted by poet1b
There is a term for people who hold others to a much higher standard than themselves, it is called hypocrisy.

I think you were trying to ake a point here, however; I hold no one to any standard higher than myself. Period!

However, If I can make my standard, I insist that YOU do too.

Now then. You should know that, for the most part, I agree with you. Stupidity should never be a crime. However, stupid can turn criminal very fast and easy.

reply to post by engineer418

Stupidity should never be a crime. However, stupid can turn criminal very fast and easy.

Good to see, and I think this is a big point that needs to be made.

A line needs to be drawn between what is criminal and what is a basic mistake. What should not be allowed because it is too dangerous, and what individual behavior should not be regulated.

However, If I can make my standard, I insist that YOU do too.

This is where things get messed up.

You set your standards, and I set mine, and everyone sets their own standards.

There are communal standards everyone should abide by, but beyond that, people have no right to tell others how they should act.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by poet1b
So it is alright to support injustice if you use a technicality?

It is called taking responsibility for your actions; right or wrong and defending those actions.

No it is not, it is called injustice. You are dodging the question.

It is the responsibility of the courts to defend the rights of the Individual.

It is the courts that are failing to meet their responsibility.

The courts are not supposed to punish people who fall into hard circumstances, and that is exactly what they are doing. The courts should not punish people for making a mistake.

Nobody should go to jail for a night for a mistake. If everyone went to jail for a night, for everytime they made a mistake, we would all spend our lives in jail.

You speed; you pay a fine or fight the ticket. You run a red light; you pay a fine or fight the ticket.

Yeah right! You pay a fine every time you speed or don't clear an intersection before the light turns red?

Who do you think you are fooling?

It's not rocket science, but it isn't that simple either, it's reality. Everyone makes mistakes.

Including you.

reply to post by NotAConsumer


What gets me is that people who are going through changes, young people just starting out, people going through crisis situations, people taking risks to improve their lives, are the ones most vulnerable, who are also most prone to making mistakes, who get caught up in this system of injustice.

And the whole system profits off of the misery of others.

reply to post by poet1b

You set your standards, and I set mine, and everyone sets their own standards.

There are communal standards everyone should abide by, but beyond that, people have no right to tell others how they should act.

I think you misunderstand again ...

The standard I set for myself, that I expect all others to meet is a standard of minimal social behavior. It is an expression of "how civilized" you are ... I expect you to be as civilized as I am.

I'm not sure you understand just how quickly "stupid" turns "criminal" A simple act that would get a "dumb ass" remark from nearly everyone if no harm is done, will get you charged with "negligent homicide" if someone is hurt or there is property damage.

Now obviously there are tolerances that have to be placed in this, we have to be able to accept "some" wear and tear, otherwise we will become far too weak to survive. I feel that for the most part these tolerances have been lost, and people are way too sensitive. Unfortunately, that is the way the world is going, right, wrong, or otherwise, we have to learn to "put-up" with it. And, that includes all the stupid BS lying around ready to trap you.

As for the "stupid laws", you are better off with a good attorney.

reply to post by engineer418


We are pretty much in agreement here.

Except maybe the worth of an attorney. Especially in fighting a traffic ticket. Most tickets handed out should not be treated as crimes. A warning should be issued. If you get too many warning, then some sort of action, Internet class maybe.

In Illinois you can go to jail for not paying a hospital bill. I've had to bail a grandson out twice for it. What do you do in a medical emergency?

reply to post by EternalWatcher


Unless you might possibly be an illegal alien.

Apparently it is alright for U.S. citizens to avoid medical treatment in order to avoid financial disaster with the current situation of outrageous medical costs, but immigrants are given a free ride.

All that money the fed spends on medicaid certainly isn't going to U.S. citizens.

Here in CA they will garnish your wages, and they don't care if you wind up on the streets.

reply to post by poet1b


I would never attepmt to give any attorney any "worth", I will give some of them their "skill" however. Some can build a good agument.

Is it considered cruel and unusual to make someone give something they don't have and then imprisoning them when they cant give what they don't have? Just asking it seems to me that the courts are on an outdated system that think everyone has money or can easily get money. Maybe the options should be implemented of community service or pay fine which ever you can do if you do neither you will be found guilty of failure to comply and then put in jail.

Originally posted by poet1b
No it is not, it is called injustice. You are dodging the question.

What question would that be? Maybe I missed it.

It is the responsibility of the courts to defend the rights of the Individual.

No it is the responsibility of the court to be impartial and weigh the evidence against the law; in this case, the State (who issued the ticket) and the the individual (who needs to be responsible and decide if they want to fight it). If you don't even bother to show up or pay for the ticket, what do you want them to do? Just drop it?

The courts are not supposed to punish people who fall into hard circumstances, and that is exactly what they are doing. The courts should not punish people for making a mistake.

Agreed but you are really missing the trees amongst the forest here. The people are not jailed for their mistake; i.e, a ticket. They are jailed because they completely neglected their responsibility in a system of law.

Maybe this will help. You are driving down the road and make a mistake, you run a red light. You get pulled over, the officer cites you for the infraction. That ticket isn't an admission of guilt, it is a binding agreement that you will appear in court to defend your actions. The State for the most part, has provided an avenue to pay the fine, rather than appear.

Now, if you don't pay the fine AND don't appear, what does that say about the Rule of Law or the person just willfully ignoring it?! You have plenty of recourse, I have shown that even if you cannot pay the fine, that the vast majority of courts (unless you are a chronic repeat offender) will grant you a very nice extension if you plead your case. Hell, you don't even need a lawyer to do that. Just go and tell your story.

Instead you are defending the actions of people who believe they don't need to adhere to the Rule of Law and then when that Law catches them, they complain. They completely ignored any attempt to defend themselves and you think they should get off free?

Nobody should go to jail for a night for a mistake. If everyone went to jail for a night, for everytime they made a mistake, we would all spend our lives in jail. ]quote]

Um, many people go to jail for mistakes....people are people and do dumb things. While a ticket shouldn't land you in jail I agree, not even paying or showing up in defense of yourself should surely get you a night in the slammer. You ignored the Law. You basically placed yourself above it and said you don't need to account for your deeds. That is why a simple mistake is escalated into a night or two in jail.

Yeah right! You pay a fine every time you speed or don't clear an intersection before the light turns red?

Who do you think you are fooling?

Well yes I do if I know I was in the wrong. If I feel I was wrongfully ticketed, I fight it. What planet do you live on?!

It's not rocket science, but it isn't that simple either, it's reality. Everyone makes mistakes.

Including you.

Never stated I didn't. It isn't rocket science to show up to your court date either; but apparently for you it is, as for the others you are so adamantly defending too.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Your posts sound like they are written by a lawyer.

The original question was, do you think it is just to imprison a person on a technicality?

It is the duty of the courts to adhere to the spirit of the US Constitution.

Yeah the courts should forget about it, unless the safety violation is of such seriousness that it is criminal. Ordinary safety violations should not be handled by the courts.

They are jailed because they completely neglected their responsibility in a system of law.

See, this kind of thinking is a fundamental flaw of the way law is currently interpreted. The people do not have responsibility to the courts, the courts have responsibility to the people, and jailing people for a safety violation, OR for missing a court date for a safety violation is not being responsible, is is seriously violating the rights of the people.

Maybe this will help. You are driving down the road and make a mistake, you run a red light. You get pulled over, the officer cites you for the infraction. That ticket isn't an admission of guilt, it is a binding agreement that you will appear in court to defend your actions. The State for the most part, has provided an avenue to pay the fine, rather than appear.

See, here are dry clear indications of the flaws in your thinking.

First you assume I am guilty.

Second you expect me to sacrifice my time and money in order to prove that I did not make a mistake.

Third, you insist that making a mistake is a criminal act, which it is not, and therefore no one should have to go to a court of law because they made a mistake.

The rule of law should be just, and the courts profiting off of fines leveled for safety violations is extremely unjust.

It costs time and money to go to court, just by appearing, you have to forfeit your liberties. Which is why someone should only have to appear I court for very grave matters. A questionable call of whether or not to proceed through an intersection made in the split second after the light changed to yellow is not a grave matter. Having to pay a stiff fine or take time off for someone struggling to get by is a very serious matter. The system is extremely unjust.