Lets give right and wrong a little more thought

I have been giving this whole issue a lot of thought lately. I would be willing to bet that I am not the first person on this forum to think of these things.

What makes something considered wrong? Because god says so....will say some of you. Why would he say so? Why would those who wrote the Bible for instance strain certain points about life, right, and wrong so strongly?

I think I have the most logical answer for this....and its an easy one too. I am going somewhere with this...so please follow this through towards the end.

Why is it wrong to steal? Well, even if the reason is "God says so", he still should have a reason logically. I think it is wrong to steal because it HURTS PEOPLE. When you lose items, it hurts you whether or not it should.

Why is it wrong to kill? Because it hurts people!

Why is it wrong to commit adultery? Because it hurts people!

Why is it wrong to dishonor your parents? Because it hurts people!

Here is the kick in the butt...

Why is it wrong to have premarital sex? Because it hurts people!

Some people get hurt by that badly. What happens to a woman if a man dumps her? She gets hurt... What happens to a woman after she has sex and is dumped? She gets hurt badly! Note both relationships just stated are wrong in the bible...even the one without sex. What about when two people get together and one has a past with a lot of permiscuous sex. Someone is going to feel insecure and uncomfortable, maybe jealous. Maybe the partner will tell you about a past experience. Jealousy and pain are the typical result. Jealousy cause fights, which causes people to hurt. You can accidentally have kids while unprepared. You and the child will suffer as a result.

What I am trying to say is this.....

I am tired of Bible literal people telling me what i can and can't do. Half of it isn't even in the bible. In reality we should go off what we feel is right and wrong. Not what we are told by PEOPLE. In that light, there may be times when it is acceptable to do certain things in context...such as premarital sex.

Seapeople
I am tired of Bible literal people telling me what i can and can't do. Half of it isn't even in the bible. In reality we should go off what we feel is right and wrong. Not what we are told by PEOPLE. In that light, there may be times when it is acceptable to do certain things in context...such as premarital sex.

Bible people are not telling you what you can and cannot do, God is. The topic of fornication is well covered in the Bible and if you have sexual relations outside of marriage you are sinning against God. The Bible warns mankind not to do those things which they feel are right but to do what God says is right. We are all fallen and sinful by nature, if left to our own devices we would surely die and be separated from God forever.

Your statements bring to mind some scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 KJV
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 14:16 KJV
A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.

Proverbs 21:2 KJV
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

2 Timothy 4:3 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Originally posted by Machine
Bible people are not telling you what you can and cannot do, God is. The topic of fornication is well covered in the Bible and if you have sexual relations outside of marriage you are sinning against God. The Bible warns mankind not to do those things which they feel are right but to do what God says is right. We are all fallen and sinful by nature, if left to our own devices we would surely die and be separated from God forever.

Your statements bring to mind some scriptures.

Proverbs 14:12 KJV
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Proverbs 14:16 KJV
A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.

Proverbs 21:2 KJV
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

2 Timothy 4:3 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

His statements brought to my mind completely different scriptures.

1Th 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Psa 32:9
Be ye not as the horse, [or] as the mule, [which] have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

Raphael_UO
His statements brought to my mind completely different scriptures.

1Th 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Psa 32:9
Be ye not as the horse, [or] as the mule, [which] have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

Both of those scriptures are excellent. But don�t think for a minute that they in any way contradict what I posted. I know what you�re trying to do but it is not going to work. Let me explain those two scriptures to you.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good

This scripture instructs the believer to examine the things that people say against the word of God to insure that they don�t accept, that which is evil. It�s not a license to make your own decisions as you see fit.

Psalms 32:9 KJV
Be ye not as the horse, [or] as the mule, [which] have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

This scripture instructs believers to learn the word of God and have a full understanding of what it means. A Horse is a stupid animal that cannot know anything and must be firmly controlled and led. As a believer in the word of God you are to educate yourself in that word and in your knowledge of the word you will be free. This scripture doesn�t mean that a person is not to accept instruction or correction when he or she is wrong about a biblical issue.

So machine, you have never thought about why you feel guilt? Why things are wrong? Are you so brainwashed that you...cannot think on your own?

Could this not be a valid explanation of why things are right and wrong? Tell me, what possible reasons could God have forbiding something?

Oh, and here is something for you to think about. Since you are so bible knowledgeable, and you seem to follow it to the letter (which is based thousands of years of translations...that we know for a fact cannot fully be complete and accurate to todays language), does God know everything? Does God know you before you wee born? Does he know the future? Does he know all past present and future? What does the bible say?

I did not say they contradicted the scripture you quoted. What I intended to infer was that his questions were not blind nor foolish. Because understanding is the key to faith. Blind faith is just blind. And I would have him prove that "just following what he thinks is right or wrong is good".

1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good

This instructs a believer to examine the things that people say about the word of God. Then it instructs them to hold onto that which is good and push away that which is evil.

Psalms 32:9 KJV
Be ye not as the horse, [or] as the mule, [which] have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

This not only talks about knowing what it means but why it is being said. "What it means" is not all there is to understanding.


If I were to contradict what you posted, I would contradict that which was in your own words.

I would point out the etymology of the modern word fornicate is:

Etymology: Late Latin fornicatus, past participle of fornicare to have intercourse with prostitutes, from Latin fornic-, fornix arch, vault, brothel


I would then point out that one of the source documents for KJV translation was the Latin Vulgate which specifically used forms of fornicare which was translated into english as fornicate.

And then I would recite an old joke, "If the KJV was good enough to the apostles, it's good enough for me."

Then I would quote more scripture:

Exodus 22:16-17
And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

Then I would remind seapeople of my response in his other thread:

Matthew 22:36-40 speaks of the foundation of all the laws. If you can figure out how the "law of love" applies to your question, you should have your answer.

[Edited on 2-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]

What would you say about a situation when whatever choice you make will hurt 'someone'? Which choice should you make? For example, lets say you are a soldier in Iraq and are under fire. You know that killing is wrong because it hurts people. If you do not terminate your enemy, then there is a chance that your fellow soldiers may be killed, but killing the enemy may definitely hurt them and their families. Do you see my point? It is something to add to this conversation. Jesus pointed out that no one was good, only the Father. Sometimes, it is impossible to make a choice by just trying to figure out what is good or bad.