VIPR team swarms Chicago Metra train for nuclear alert!

reply to post by jonnywhite


That was a good one. Isn't it the one where the singer was starting a political movement that would save the world and eliminate religion, so the guy shares a bottle of poisoned wine with him?

reply to post by Bedlam

This is where I'm a bit confused... I did a great deal of time and research on Fukushima and a side effort in all that was doing my best to determine how much Plutonium may have blown directly into the Pacific Ocean and outside the protected breakwater of the power station. In doing that work, I had gotten the impression that Plutonium, as the processed and produced material it was there, is exceptionally dangerous and radioactive. In fact, some things say it's one of the single most toxic and dangerous substances known to man?

Your suggestion would almost make it sound safe to handle with simple, basic steps?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You can physically handle a pit with gloves on. At the risk of saying something I ought not, you're more at risk of beryllium poisoning than radiation, especially with Navy pits.

If the plutonium's full of Pu240, you'll get neutron flux from the contaminants, also you get secondary gammas when the neutrons whack into plutonium atoms and are not captured and give up their energy in the collision. So there's a steady stream of neutrons and the occasional low level gamma. If you're around it a LONG time, it can build up. Thus, Navy uses especially low Pu240 alloy, as the squids have to be right there with it.

ETA: plutonium, like uranium, is chemically very poisonous. It's radioactive, but not extremely so, but if you eat it, drink it or inhale it, you've got a low level alpha emitter inside you, where it can do damage. Handling it, no issue.

Incredibly, I watched a show about the radioactive materials inspection process of the shipping industry about a year ago and one of the inspectors interviewed told exactly how to mask radioactive materials so that they can't detect it. I was flabergasted when i heard him say it, so i won't repeat it. Why would they make such information public? I'm glad to hear that they have detectors around. I doubt if they would detect a serious threat however.

reply to post by jimmiec


Yah, there's also caches of really HIGH POWERED gamma sources where you could conceivably get them - they're in the open - and they're in any port city, and inland in some cases at Customs lockups.

Anyone who decides to snag one has all the makings for a dirty bomb. And they're not guarded.

Grant you, you're pretty much going to be toast getting it, but I have to assume you wouldn't care, or you've got a patsy to get it for you.

ETA: hiding them in truckloads of bananas is one of my favorites, personally

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Habit4ming

 

Is there any basis to believe this was set up?

It's a MAJOR commuter line during the evening commute, as I read this. Chicago is a nightmare of a city for car owners. Nothing like New York, perhaps...but as much as I was there in a truck? I'd take the train too if I was there as a tourist. I'll bet there are any number of people who happen to work in Journalism on every commuter train in a big city....and EVERYONE has a camera phone these days?

Additionally... If you google..you'll see these hits on people with Nuclear Medicine testing aren't rare or even all THAT unusual. This stood out to share with ATS because it triggered a search for the source on a commuter train at rush, for everyone to see and possibly get worked up about.

What would be the gain or purpose to running this as a drill..and saying it wasn't a drill? What of the man who openly admits and documented the fact he did actually have the testing which is well known to trigger these hits?

edit on 17-3-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

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You ask what would be the gain or purpose to running this as a drill, etc. If you honestly do not know the answer to that Wrabbit, I just wouldn't know where to begin...but I'll play: How about an attempt to legitimatize the ever-encroaching police state??!! How about conditioning people to tolerate the nonsense...the interference with our RIGHT TO TRAVEL...

I did do a search (2 in fact) to see if those who had 'medical nuclear testing' were creating these alleged type of problems. Now perhaps I did not use the correct keywords, but the only hits I got were connected to THIS story!

The man openly admitted he had the testing and documented same? So the story says, but where is the proof? Do you know him personally? I trust no MSM and few lawyers...and they have no one to blame but themselves.

To be honest I watched the following youtube video because the video at your link will not fully play for me. If you read the comments, you will ascertain that I am NOT the only one who is suspicious about this story.



On a side note, I expected to be called out for my paragraph about hating the TSA since my admission of hatred conflicts with my signature line. Some would say that makes me a hypocrite, but I say it makes me human.

You and others are free, of course, to believe as you will...and I and others are free to believe otherwise. Peace, Wrabbit...

reply to post by Habit4ming

You ask what would be the gain or purpose to running this as a drill, etc. If you honestly do not know the answer to that Wrabbit, I just wouldn't know where to begin...but I'll play: How about an attempt to legitimatize the ever-encroaching police state??!!

Well, actually..I hadn't asked what the purpose of a drill would be, but what the purpose was for running a drill and then saying it wasn't one. We've all watched the TSA goons and their sister agencies "invading" places like Los Angeles, Miami and more..whenever the mood strikes them. Sometimes they give warning and sometimes even the Mayor learns at the same time the population does. I've yet to see them claim something was real when it wasn't? They don't seem to care what we think for the need to make anything up, anymore?

Once the agent said the word “isotope,” Jones says he realized he was the one they were looking for. He raised his hand to say he had a nuclear stress test.

The tests can leave patients emitting radiation for some time. After showing identification and proof of the nuclear test, Jones and the other passengers were allowed to go on their way.

That's from my link and what I'm going by in saying he identified himself, explained he was the one they wanted, following his realization of why they were there and it indicates he supplied proof. I'd imagine that was along the lines of the physical card they describe in the last part of the OP article for just such an occasion and purpose?

it's just an odd thing all around...but it didn't strike me as anything contrived or staged by the VIPR team. They're generally heavy handed goons and thugs, in my view, but they also do a job. Once in awhile, they might actually be interrupted from their regular efforts of rousting old ladies and feeling up kids in checkpoints to do something valuable? It's possible.

If you had more money than sense, you could buy some off the shelf gamma sources and drop them in people's pockets at the station.

Loads of Fun! Prank your buddies! Watch the TSA respond!

You can also purchase biohazard sensor test material - it's a polymer dust that is exactly the size of various war bacteria spores and will trip a Mie detector the same way. I had a powerful urge to buy some and sprinkle it around in DC for lulz but got better.

reply to post by Bedlam

If they caught you spoofing their detector network, I wonder what the penalty would be? Do you think anyone would even see you again?

I'm thinking...If you just kinda 'vanished' into one of those doors that aren't even there (until they open) that one finds around D.C. at street level...would they even bother reading your rights or just bag you for a black site and long days of fun in the sun? (Their fun..your sun).

Interesting idea for ..practical uses though. We always talk about TSHTF. Someday, knowing how to spoof detector networks may just have a valuable purpose. Who knows what the future holds. Thanks for the tidbit either way!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Hey rabbit. Sorry I did not reply to you sooner. I share a computer and can have sudden leaves that take me away from good sessions on the internet. This is one of those. I replied to this post to answer your question about handling PU. Thanks for the links in your last reply about Litvinenko. I had not read that book but remember the story. It makes perfect sense to compare the dangerous nature of alpha emitters with his demise. He ingested the stuff. Like swallowing a tiny x ray machine that can't be turned off.

I have this link. Maybe you have seen it too. The pic and description of what this stuff does to living flesh.

www.animatedsoftware.com...

This other pic is a simple diagram of the stages elements go through to become fuel rods.



The refined oxide in powder form is dangerous because if you handle that it could get on you (or in you). Once pressed into fuel pellets and made into rods and fuel bundles it is less likely to shed material. Once it is exposed in a reactor core however it becomes highly dangerous to be anywhere near. It is emitting massive amounts of gamma radiation.

Inside the spent fuel rod after being exposed inside the reactor core, the elements have undergone controlled fission and produced other elements. This is where they get the plutonium from to make bombs. Further refining of spent fuel then produces the metal they make bomb pits out of. Once in metallic refined form PU is "safe to handle" as it is not issuing much gamma just alpha which again, is safe to handle as long as it is done carefully.

All these processes to mine ore, refine it to produce fuel, expose it in a reactor and then further refine it to make bombs is the most insidious dangerous process on the planet. It involves a lot of work and equipment, all of which become contaminated waste and must be buried, blah, blah. The industry calls all this "safe" procedure. It is for the most part.

However, as soon as a reactor melts down and explodes allowing open air, uncontrolled, runaway chain reaction fission to occur... Then, if you use seawater to "cool" the mess and flush it down the drain to the ocean...

A 100 tons of fuel in each reactor. Some portion volatilized by burning in the atmosphere, some washed into the sea, some still hot in the reactor (or below it). Not good.

I have other links which are dry and techy of good people doing testing of soil samples and food with different detectors if you want to wade thru a little I can present them to you. Sorry for the redundancy or if you already know this.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Interesting idea for ..practical uses though. We always talk about TSHTF. Someday, knowing how to spoof detector networks may just have a valuable purpose. Who knows what the future holds. Thanks for the tidbit either way!

IIRC, the flash came to me during one of those 'million people marches for something', I don't actually recall which, that it would be *amazingly* entertaining if the BioWatch Mie effect spore detectors went off all over the Mall area for tularemia.

Can you imagine the panic at DHS? How do you get the people out in time? What do you do?

reply to post by Bedlam
Hmmmm...... First, I admit, I was laughing.. I had to look up Tularemia. After all, I'm political science, not medical. That's an odd infection one unless you get it.

Then something hit me...Like an ACME Safe falling from the clear sky, and ..uhh.. I stopped laughing. This ain't a good idea...even as a joke. I mean in real life.

Anthrax.. Yes.. Indeed.. A wide area tripping Anthrax detections at once, like the National Mall. Well, in that flash of realization ...actually, I CAN imagine what DHS would be doing. They'd have kittens first...many kittens of all shapes and sizes..in the figurative sense. Then?

Well.. They called the protocol 'Wildfire' in a fairly well known movie a long time back. I'm afraid I can imagine exactly what the response could be to airborne detection of drifting spores inside a population area ...that's still showing an outer ring which isn't beeping. I don't think they'd ever tell anyone they'd discovered .....after it was all over, that it'd been a prank.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Anthrax.. Yes.. Indeed.. A wide area tripping Anthrax detections at once, like the National Mall. Well, in that flash of realization ...actually, I CAN imagine what DHS would be doing. They'd have kittens first...many kittens of all shapes and sizes..in the figurative sense. Then?

Aye, and that's the question. It's obvious what they'd do in some circumstances. What you hope for is some massive conjunction of unmanageable forces as a framework in which to play your prank. Like some million person protest. You have just too many people to manipulate, and any attempt to do so would likely either cause panic or reprisal. That could be entertaining either way.

Or you wait for some relatively unstoppable thing like a massive dog and pony with everyone in the DC area for photoops, say the State of the Union address. Eh, there's a lot of opportunities. Then you give them a lot of mixed signals and await the response.

You could, for example, get a weld tester, slap it on some random boat going up the Potomac about the same time you tossed your bag o' dust. I could envision a few other things that would light them up, a proper radar spoof that painted some imaginary planes coming in at the same time maybe. Anyway, the thing would be to poke them in multiple TEOTWAWKI ways at the same time. One really bad one would be fun, but three or four at the same time would be lulz.

One day, someone will do this, you watch. It won't be me but it'll happen.

Well.. They called the protocol 'Wildfire' in a fairly well known movie a long time back.

I doubt they'd cauterize DC for tularemia. But would it be a bad thing? Short of Detroit, I can't think of a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

I agree that its a good thing they can respond so quickly. Its unfortunate that it is something that needs prepping for but it is the world we live in.

They may get a thousand false alarms, but that one time they stop one makes it worth it.