New Pope on women

I red this little bit on my local news portal so I searched for the source. Not because it sounded unbelievable, but because it sounded familiar...probable.

Apparently this was a part of the cable sent when Christine Fernandez was a presidential candidate, back in 2007.

According to this cable Bergoglio said in 2007, when President Cristina Fernandez was a candidate in Argentina, that "women are naturally unfit for political office." "The natural order and facts teach us that man is a politician par excellence, the Scriptures show us that women always support thinker and maker of man, but nothing more than that", said the current pope in 2007.

source: Elpais

(used google translate for the source)

It's not a secret that most religions consider women second class citizens. You can quote the scriptures all you want with different passages, but in reality the religious institutions have not moved much further on women, since the days of burning witches at stakes.

This statement from the new Pope (if true) only reaffirms ancient stone age mindset of the institution. Pope, as the new supreme religious leader, probably speaks for the large majority of the Vatican political body.

Now, all this is hardly a surprise to me, but what I'm wandering is...how come women don't care about that ? How come you go to the same church, kiss the cloth of a minister, confess their sins, to an institution that considers them...well....unfit apparently for anything but breeding. Since women should support the "superior thinker" (), I guess they are good for kitchen and "producing" babies.

Let fly...

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
..how come women don't care about that ?

I highly doubt that most women on the planet have heard this alleged quote previously. I'd like to see it in English and from a good source.

an institution that considers them...well....unfit apparently for anything but breeding.

The institution doesn''t .. but if that quote is accurate then it would mean that Pope Francis could.

This could also be a matter of age and culture.
The guy is 76 years old and his culture is male-centric.
He's from a different generation.

That being said .. I'd really like to see a full english translation and a good source.

Interesting find MarioOnTheFly. We dont' know much about Pope Francis.
The more we know .. the better.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Unfortunately...no english source available I think. It was a local news back then...

As for your comment...even if he didn't say it...the point of the statement is not something that would surprise me of the Catholic church. You seem to think it would be his personal opinion. I don't think it is that far off what Church stands for.

Isn't that apparent by the lack of important women roles in Church hierarchy ?

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

Most Golf Clubs see women as second class citizens.....it's inbred in old farts...Nothing to do with religion whatsoever....

Sorry, the man has only just clocked in and the attacks have started....cut him some slack....some people forget...Pope John paul was a amazing Pontiff and Humanitarian..as for Joseph Ratszinger....i dont recall him doing much wrong in his short term on the vatican Dance floor....

Why all the hate for the Catholic Church.....The first person that mentions sex crimes will be off the Christmass card list...In any organisation that huge will, over the years...(2000 of them IMA)... have it's Bad apples

reply to post by FlyersFan

I highly doubt that most women on the planet have heard this alleged quote previously. I'd like to see it in English and from a good source.

I agree...but I wasn't thinking about this comment in particular. Women are somewhat considered, a help...not given rights to be cardinals or priests.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


To some degree you are right. But the church can not be held to a same standard all other human institutions are. The church says it represents God. It represents a company of billions. It boasts a moral high ground above everyone. It is unfortunate from my standpoint, but the church in it's hands holds lives of millions of devout followers. For that reason they have to be held more accountable than anybody.

How can I take seriously any Pope or a priest that talks against homosexuality for instance (and they claim it's the word of God) , when some of those same preachers engage in pedophilia ? And is even covered up by the highest of Vatican hierarchy ?

You just don't care about that...do you ? Does it even make a dent ?

New Pope on women

Wow, he looked a bit too old for that kind of behavior.

(J/K - couldn't resist lol! Mods, please feel free to strike me dead and hang me out to dry... this was an unforgivable sin against ATS and the Church!)

Originally posted by redoubt

New Pope on women

Wow, he looked a bit too old for that kind of behavior.

(J/K - couldn't resist lol! Mods, please feel free to strike me dead and hang me out to dry... this was an unforgivable sin against ATS and the Church!)

fine..."new Pope on subject of women"

new Pope on women...

"I wouldn't know!!"

I'm sure you already know that most people will need a source in order to make their own decision on the matter but frankly I'm not surprised. That being said, who gives a flying turd what this guy thinks? Will he stop the growth and success of women across the world? Nope. Will he lose power for making such remark? Nope.

Who cares. This guys an old fart anyways, just like the others.

Reread yer bible guys...even God thinks women are kind of second rate....
Paul is almost on the mysoginist list fer petes sake.....
Neither Islam nor Christianity has much use for women.....
isreal well, im not so sure, but if they are abrahamic religion too then id say they are mysoginist as well.....probably.
Women are not high on many cultures lists actually....religion or anything else......

Just what the heck would a pope or a priest for that matter know about women? I've loved and been involved with women for over 50 years, and I still can't figure them out!

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Unfortunately...no english source available I think. It was a local news back then...

As for your comment...even if he didn't say it...the point of the statement is not something that would surprise me of the Catholic church. You seem to think it would be his personal opinion. I don't think it is that far off what Church stands for.

Isn't that apparent by the lack of important women roles in Church hierarchy ?

I think that depends on what you consider to be an "important" role. Being a wife and mother is something which many western women of my generation have actually determined was under valued, and undermined as part of the woman's movement. I personally know a large number of women who would prefer to stay home with their children and have their man be able to support the whole family. Young women in the 80s were encouraged to postpone marriage and kids. Many of them today are regular visitors to fertility clinics. And, after a couple decades of very successful business careers -- they want what their grandmother's had. Though admittedly there were unrecognized (not public) issues in many marriages and today women do have more freedom and equality of personhood -- it doesn't make them less important to say that they are in fact different then men. Also, for a church to stand by a set of beliefs whether they involve gender or something else, is in my opinion, appropriate. Churches are not obligated to "keep up with the times". The believe that they have a truth to tell. They don't have to/and shouldn't change the truth to make it more popular. The masses are free to embrace it or not.

I took the easy way out and ran a computer translation. It's sloppy, but here's the end of the article:

Just hours after it was circulated online cable attributed to the State argentina News Agency, Telam, on these assumptions of the Argentine Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, yesterday become Francisco, on women.According to this cable Bergoglio said in 2007, when President Cristina Fernández was a candidate in Argentina, that "women are naturally helpless to exercise political positions"."The natural order and the facts we are taught that man is being a politician par excellence;" the Scriptures show us that the woman is always supported by man thinker and doer, but nothing more than that", said the current Pope in 2007.

So the Argentinian news agency, a creature of a government with which Francis fought, releases a statement soon after his election claiming he said terrible things which don't fit with anyone's understanding of him.

In recent years, his clashes with the husband-and-wife tag team who have led this nation of 40 million created a rift between the Casa Rosada — Argentina’s White House — and the church as Bergoglio challenged the moral authority of elected leaders. Now, as he enters the crisis-plagued halls of Vatican City, his years in Argentina show that when he sees fit, Pope Francis can be a combative leader unafraid to challenge entrenched authority.

Washington Post


I'm going to need something a little more substantial. It sounds like they're making things up to try to get revenge.

He speaks from the Bible, ever read the thing? I doubt anyone in this entire thread has read the Bible from a to Z. Patriarchal leadership is a theme throughout the Bible, he only speaks from what he knows.