Does anyone else see this coming?

I can see it already, and I'm not looking forward to it.

If Bush does get elected, there are going to be people out there talking about how the voting machines didnt work right.

The voting machines were made by backers of the Bush campaign right? omg

About how the Republicans "stole" another election.

I mean there has to be some scandal involving Bush and the Republican party right?

I'm oh so worried about this issue and how the liberal Democrats just can't seem to lose fairly. They are the ones making a mockery of our electoral system and the electoral college.

These are soley the opinions of "me."

Bash me all you want but deep down you know it's going to happen again somewhere, maybe not Florida this time.

The democrats just can't lose fairly, because they are oppressed by Bush and his big corporations.

See where I'm going here.

I'm willing to bet that if the senario was reversed and Kerry was elected. The Republicans would never make such lewd and atrocious speculations.

They would take their defeat in stride knowing that the American people didn't choose them for four more years. Thats the difference, Republicans believe in the system. Democrats want it reformed so it works better for "them."

Once again, just my opinions, support or bash them as you like.

Yes, I do see - if Bush wins _ much to do about the election being stolen.

I expect to read about leagal voters (democrates) being challenged becouse they don't respond to republican letters-OH wait-that was already in the news

I expect to read about mail in ballots being stolen - OH-wait that already happened

I expect to hear about voters being intimidated by some innpolling places not to vote-OH-wait-that already happened

You can see where this is going.

Honestly I hope the election goes simple, equal and fair-not games or cheating-but, then again I am a dreamer.

hmmmmm...

could you give some referencce to how these actions are already happened?

at least I made it clear that my thoughts were my opinion.

You are saying whats on your mind like it is factual already, yet you offer no links to credited web sites backing your "opinions."

Go figure

Here's a piece on your voting machines sailor...

Originally posted by twitchy
Even if we were to challenge the results in court, we wouldn't be able to get a good idea of what really happened because of a little term the courts call proprietary trade secrecy, in other words, the source codes
are simply not available for examination. In other words, they don't have to tell you jack doodley about their voting machines, even with a sopena. Ah but I digress lets examine a few points of interest here....
I am pulling alot of this information from my own research files which I have not saved in html format but text files, but I have cited my sources and found all this stuff on www.google.com... through the last two years...

www.thepeoplesvoice.org...
September 2, 2003
By Schuyler Ebbets
Two Republican dominated corporations, Election Systems & Software (ES&S), and Diebold Voting Systems, now control 80% of the vote count in the United States.

Reading this creeped me out so I started looking into it...

Ready or Not, Electronic Voting Goes National
By TOM ZELLER Jr., The New York Times
Sept. 19
The leader in the electronic voting machine market, Diebold, and its executives have given more than $400,000 to Republican interests since 2001....in the view of Michael Wertheimer, a computer security consultant with RABA Technologies, who was hired by the state of Maryland last year to conduct a mock hacking attack against the Diebold machines. A number of security holes were found, including one in the Microsoft operating system that runs the election software, which did not have up-to-date security patches. The flaws, Mr. Wertheimer said, could allow tampering and skewed election results. He also noted that in the presidential primary election last March, Maryland used software on its machines that had not been certified by independent testing authorities, and thus violated state law.

Is there a conflict of interest from the manufacturers of this technology? You bet your butt there is!
Don't believe me, let's see what Diebold themselves have to say about their political contributions by their own board and officers.... (FYI this information is almost extinct on the net now so get it while you can)

www.diebold.com...
Board of Directors
Louis V. Bockius III (2,4,5)
6/28/00 $15,000.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
11/3/00 $10,000.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
10/9/97 $1,000.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
10/9/97 $1,000.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
Christopher M. Connor Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, The
Sherwin-Williams Company
5/22/00 $1,000.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
3/30/00 $1,000.00 � DEWINE FOR US SENATE
Gale S. Fitzgerald (2, 6)
President and Chief Executive Officer , QP Group, Inc.
7/12/00 $500.00 � NEW YORK REPUBLICAN FEDERAL CAMPAIGN COMM.
10/12/98 $200.00 � FRIENDS OF JOHN LAFALCE
10/18/99 $1,000.00 � BUSH FOR PRESIDENT INC
Donald R. Gant (1,3,5) Senior Director, The Goldman Sachs Group, L.P.
L. Lindsey Halstead (2,3,6) Retired Chairman of the Board, Ford of Europe
12/22/98 $500.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
1/23/97 $500.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
5/27/97 $200.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
10/31/97 $500.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
12/28/99 $500.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
3/7/01 $300.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
6/12/01 $200.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
11/27/01 $200.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
1/24/02 $500.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
Phillip B. Lassiter (1,3,6) Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive
Officer, Ambac Financial Group, Inc.
4/16/98 $250.00 � NAT'L REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMM.
9/21/98 $250.00 � NAT'L REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMM.
John N. Lauer (1,4,5) Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer,
Oglebay Norton Co.
10/10/00 $1,000.00 � DEWINE FOR US SENATE
8/23/00 $250.00 � REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE - RNC
3/17/97 $1,000.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
Walden W. O'Dell Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive
Officer, Diebold
2/14/01 $2,015.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
12/17/97 $1,000.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
1/30/01 $3,950.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
8/16/01 $500.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
12/17/97 $1,000.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
6/30/00 $1,000.00 � DEWINE FOR US SENATE
Eric J. RoordaFormer Chairman, Procomp Amazonia Industria Eletronica, S.A.
W.R. Timken Jr. (2,3,4) Chairman , The Timken Company
6/23/00 $50,000.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
6/8/01 $100,000.00 � 2001 PRESIDENT'S DINNER - NON-FEDERAL TRUST
3/14/01 $10,000.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
8/19/99 $15,000.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
11/3/00 $15,000.00 � RNC REPUBLICAN NAT'L STATE ELECTIONS COMM.
2/22/02 $1,000.00 � RELY ON YOUR BELIEFS FUND
6/12/02 $1,000.00 � OHIO'S REPUBLICAN SALUTE
Corporate Officers
Walden W. O'DellChairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive
Officer, Diebold
Wesley B. Vance Chief Operating Officer
8/16/01 $500.00 � VOINOVICH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE
Michael J. HillockPresident, Diebold International
11/18/97 $500.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
David Bucci Senior Vice President, Customer Solutions Group
11/18/97 $500.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
James L.M. Chen Vice President and Managing Director, Asia-Pacific
Warren W. Dettinger Vice President, General Counsel and Assistant
Secretary
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
1/30/97 $250.00 � DEWINE FOR U S SENATE (2000)
Donald E. Eagon, Jr. Vice President, Global Communications & Investor
Relations
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
Charee Francis-Vogelsang Vice President and Secretary
Larry D. Ingram Vice President, Procurement and Services
1/30/97 $250.00 � DEWINE FOR U S SENATE (2000)
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
Dennis M. Moriarty Vice President, Customer Business Solutions
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
Anthony J. Rusciano Vice President, National Accounts
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
Charles B. Scheurer Vice President, Corporate Human Resources
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998
Ernesto R. Unanue Vice President and Managing Director, Latin America
Robert J. Warren Vice President and Treasurer
11/18/97 $300.00 � FAIRCLOTH FOR SENATE COMMITTEE 1998

OpEdNews.Com
by Amanda Lang
Guess Who's Going to Dinner with Diebold, Sequoia, and Electronic ES&S? The Groups Responsible for Insuring Electronic Votes Are Secure.by Amanda LangOpEdNews.ComWhen speakers from the Election Assistance Commission (EAC) attend the August 24-28, 2004, Election Center's conference for federal and state election employees in Washington, DC, they will be participating in a huge conflict of interest as they eat, drink, and make-merry at the Diebold, Sequoia, and ES&S (voting machine vendors) sponsored events....

Remember the cancellation of elections fears that were brought up Well here's where that fiasco came from... The article continues stating...

OpEdNews.Com
by Amanda Lang
The EAC, supposedly an independent bipartisan agency, was appointed by President George W. Bush following the Election Fiasco of 2000, and is authorized by the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) to serve as "...a national clearinghouse and resource for the comparison of information" on various matters involving the administration of Federal elections. The EAC wants to be more than a clearinghouse apparently -- EAC Chairman, DeForest Soaries**, recently authored a letter to Homeland Security czar, Tom Ridge, requesting his agency be "the statutory authority to cancel and reschedule a federal election" if a terrorist attack is launched in the U.S. As a result, Ridge's office has requested that the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel analyze what legal steps would be needed to permit the postponement of the election were an attack to take place. **Soaries, a Bush appointee, two years ago was an unsuccessful GOP candidate for Congress.

Oh yeah, they also publically announced their affiliations...

THE INTERNATIONAL LANDSCAPE
October 20, 2003
From The Wilderness Publications
In an outrageous conflict with the public interest, Diebold CEO Walden O'Dell told Ohio Republicans this August that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." Even the BBC on October 8th, noted that Diebold and other systems used in California and elsewhere left the door wide open for tampering:news.bbc.co.uk... The Sydney Morning Herald in Australia reported on October 8th what Americans, and especially Californians were never told: that the electronic systems were "as flawed as chads."Excellent background research on what appears to be rampant and overtly criminal behavior by Diebold can be found at the following web sites:www.blackboxvoting.org...://www.rense.com/general42/dieboldmachinesyield.htmwww.equalccw.com... is only one of many firms making voting software, and all of it seems have problems. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska ought to know. He used to chair a company, American Information Systems, which owns the largest company putting machines into US use, Election Systems and Software. But it's doubtful he's going to complain. Nebraska used his software in the 2002 election and he garnered 83% of the vote.

Are they secure? Have they been tested?

CA Sues Diebold For E-Vote
Machine False Claims
9-8-4
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters)California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said on Tuesday he would sue electronic voting machine maker Diebold Inc on charges it defrauded the state with false claims about its products. Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has said Diebold deceived California with aggressive marketing that led to the installation of touch-screen voting systems that were not tested or approved nationally or in California.

Why can't we just make a make a machine that will print a paper record of the votes? Good question, here let's ask Diebold...

Diebold email: �Make vote printouts too costly�
by Eric A. Smith and Free Press staffin J
ournal issue January-February 2004
January 8, 2004
An internal memo has just surfaced suggesting e-vote manufacturer Diebold planned to overcharge the state of Maryland and make voter printouts �prohibitively expensive.� An employee named �Ken� wrote the Jan. 3 letter suggesting the company charge Maryland �out the yin� if legislators insisted on printouts... He goes on to say �...any after-sale changes should be prohibitively expensive.�

Note he didn't say would be, or could be, but Should be?
But our vote still counts right? No, sadly they become "circumstantial" evidence of voter intent... The machine produces the only 'hard evidence'. Yes, that is in violation of US law, but hey who cares about the law, we have an election to rig... A great article here on the 'legality' of voting machines...

Faking Democracy - Americans Don't Vote, Machines Do, & Ballot Printers Can't Fix That
by Lynn Landes
April 7, 2004
The Free Press -- Independent News Media - National Issues
Fri Sep 17, 2004
In Bush v. Gore, the Supreme Court said that a "legal vote" is one in which there is a "clear indication of the intent of the voter." Voting machines (lever, optical scan, touchscreen, the Internet, etc.) produce circumstantial evidence of the voter's intent, at best....
When voting machines are used, critical parts of the Voting Rights Act can't be enforced. Under Section 8 of the Voting Rights Act, 42 U.S.Code �1973f, Federal Observers are authorized to observe "... whether persons who are entitled to vote are being permitted to vote ...(and) whether votes cast by persons entitled to vote are being properly tabulated..."
Under "Prohibited acts" in �1973i, the "Failure or refusal to permit casting or tabulation of vote"...can result in civil and criminal penalties. "No person acting under color of law shall fail or refuse to permit any person to vote who is entitled to vote...(and) Whoever...knowingly and willfully falsifies or conceals a material fact... shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five year, or both."
Voting machines violate those provisions. Vote casting and tabulation take place inside of a box. Federal Observers can't observe "... whether persons who are entitled to vote are being permitted to vote ...(and) whether votes cast ...are being properly tabulated.." Voting machines by their very design "conceals a material fact."

But they wouldn't do that would they? That would be fraud...

Insurance for Electronic Votes
New York Times Editorial
Friday 23 July 2004
These inherent flaws are made worse by the reckless, and possibly illegal, actions of voting machine companies. This spring, California banned 14,000 Diebold voting machines because of allegations of "fraudulent actions" by the manufacturer.

Get real folks, you get a reciept for a six pack of beer at the grocery store, but to decide the next leader of the 'free' world? Not a chance.
DEMAND A PAPER BALLOT, if they don't give you one, stand there and raise hell to they do or until the media shows up, otherwise, watch the soverignty of the american people go down the electronic toliet.

Originally posted by LostSailor
I'm willing to bet that if the senario was reversed and Kerry was elected. The Republicans would never make such lewd and atrocious speculations.

They would take their defeat in stride knowing that the American people didn't choose them for four more years.

LOL! OK we'll see tomorrow when Kerry wins.

Now what are you willing to bet?

But what about the hanging chad on paper ballots?

this is just nuts, here we go with the sore losers and the election hasn't even happened yet

Twitchy-sweet post!!!!!!!!!!!

Lost, I will have to look then up-I saw them on CNN Headline news reports. I agree, I should have search CNN site for links before posting my facts.

I am now going to the Cnn website in hopes of providing links to these stores-again-Please forgive posting without proper links

The democrats just can't lose fairly, because they are oppressed by Bush and his big corporations.

Gore won the popular vote by something like half a million votes.
Bush won the Electoral votes of Florida by a little over 500 votes, a state in which his brother is the governor.

And you wonder why there were questions???

One word will be at the root of any disputed over votes....Diebold. I frequent alot of computer security haunts and I heve never heard a single good thing about Diebold. Basically they are luke-warm on security and make products teeming with holes for angry young republican/democrat/loosers to exploit.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Bush won the Electoral votes of Florida
by a little over 500 votes, a state in which
his brother is the governor.

Jeb very publically stepped away from the
recount and left it to 'the process'. He said
he didn't want anyone to think he was
influencing the recount.

www.kerrysucks.com...

Just thought this was hilarious. Is this what you're talking about twitchy?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Jeb very publically stepped away from the
recount and left it to 'the process'. He said
he didn't want anyone to think he was
influencing the recount.

- Of course.

FFS, 'the process' had been running far far longer than all that jamboree over the counting.

Of course he got as far away from that part as possible, his involvement was no longer neccessary.

Harris & Co. had already done their work stealing the vote away from several thousand otherwise elligible potential voters.....who happened to be likely to vote Gore-Dem.

Sheeesh, do you relly think the whole world (that is the world outside of republican zealot fantasy land) doesn't know this? Why do you think almost no-one outside of the US republican circles has the slightest bit of respect for the fraud that is your current President?

[edit on 1-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

I again apologize to all ATS for posting my facts without links to back them up. The following are not the exact accounts I saw on CNN, but they represent the same ideas and they were news posts I could find on quick notice.

www.npr.org...
(Voter challenges)


story.news.yahoo.com.../nm/campaign_florida_dc
(Missing ballot forms)

powerlineblog.com...
www.powerlineblog.com...
minorjive.typepad.com...
(Voter intimidation)

I do see it comeing, but its not a demecrat, or republican thing. No matter wins or who looses, they will be argueing about it, claiming scandle, and bad security on the voteing machines. Kina sad really.

mrmonsson,

Im glad you posted articles showing that this stuff is happening to both parties.

I am one of those people with a Bush sticker and I am afraid my car will be vandalized it has happened already hear in Northern Michigan to numerous people.

My Bush sign in my front yard has been stolen numerous times already (it was stolen again this morning) and was spray painted twice.

Ironically, however, none of the Kerry signs in my neighborhood have been touched.

Originally posted by LostSailor
www.kerrysucks.com...

Just thought this was hilarious. Is this what you're talking about twitchy?

Yeah Hillarious... Almost as funny as when they cut some of the machines on in black precincts to test them in FL they were already showing 1,000+ votes for bush.

In my opinion, do not expect to find out who is the next president anytime this week.

Lost,

I will not lie to you or ATS. The news articles I saw on TV were all on what republicans were doing wrong and that was the point of my post. When I went to research to find links-I discovered that both sides seem to be guilty of not being exactly legal-IMO- in the way they do things.

I am sorry to hear ignorant people harassing you for your political views. As an American- you are entitled to any view ands support any canadate you choose to. Anyone who would try to change that-except for calm logical discussion - is Un-American-IMO.

I firmly disagree with your political views, but would die for your right to them.


PLEASE, everyone of voting age, go out and vote! Vote for who you think will do the best job leading this country and what laws and propositions would befit us most. Not telling anyone who or what to vote for just VOTE!

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Not telling anyone who or what to vote for just VOTE!

- Nice. Hopefully that at least everyone can agree on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Twitchy spot on post re the voting machine manufacturers' connections to the republicans.

I can't find the link but did you hear about the machine manufacturer CEO who was reported as saying 'his job was to get Bush reelected'? (selected?)