Please tell me your stories about how one comes to believe ...

Hi everyone,

this is my very first thread and I felt inspired to do it because of something I read in another thread and one sentence in a post that said: "The primary element for that to be successful is you must believe" (that what you want can work). So this lead me straight to a problem I seem to have had for as long as I can remember and maybe you can help me with it. I'd be so appreciative.

How does one go from doubt to believe?
How does that work?
Especially if one has never seen proof.
It doesn't matter what subject, it seems this has been with me all life long, me reading or hearing people say: "If you believe you can move mountains". But how do you get to that belief? I am hoping things like reincarnation and spirits being around us and with positive thought one can create a good reality for oneself are true because I read all those things and they speak to me and I really want them to be true, but I feel like I don't believe fully, because I think if I did evidence would show itself to me, you know what I mean?

One example, I have read a lot about people having experiences with spirits of loved ones who passed on, like lights flickering in the house or something easy and soft like that, and I have spoken to spirits a lot always in the hope they might answer. I have this little wind chime in my bedroom and said so often they could make it sound just a little bit, just once, just for me as - well, some sort of encouragement, but it never happened and I think the reason is that there is doubt inside of me and the doubt outweighs my hope.
So how do I tip the scale?

I know it is not easy to answer such a question because every one of us has their own path in this life, but maybe if someone wants to share a story about how their path has been and how it worked for them, I'd be very happy and appreciate any answer.

Thank you for your time and have a nice day.

Emarie

Perhaps your looking the wrong way...

Believing in something is too strong of a stance in my opinion.

Perhaps being open-minded about things in general can be beneficial in that it allows for a neutral stance, while observing and learning all the while...

Peace

reply to post by Emarie

How does one go from doubt to believe?
How does that work?
Especially if one has never seen proof.

That is hard, huh? Let me ask you this. Since you have yet to receive proof, what still keeps you searching for it? Thats part of your answer.

"If you believe you can move mountains". But how do you get to that belief?

One shovel full at a time? Like the mustard tree seed, it takes a long time to move a mountain.

I am hoping things like reincarnation and spirits being around us and with positive thought one can create a good reality for oneself are true because I read all those things and they speak to me and I really want them to be true, but I feel like I don't believe fully, because I think if I did evidence would show itself to me, you know what I mean?

You are asking people that when you should be turning that inquiry inward. Everyone has an antenna straight to heaven (as it were), a genuine request will not go unanswered, even thought this may take a life time. Life is life long. Be patient.

One example, I have read a lot about people having experiences with spirits of loved ones who passed on, like lights flickering in the house or something easy and soft like that, and I have spoken to spirits a lot always in the hope they might answer. I have this little wind chime in my bedroom and said so often they could make it sound just a little bit, just once, just for me as - well, some sort of encouragement, but it never happened and I think the reason is that there is doubt inside of me and the doubt outweighs my hope.

You are asking for proof, not something they generally respond too. Who are you to command spirits? In due time you will get your proof. I could tell you stories but there is no proof in that for you, you have to have your own experiences, then you'll know.

reply to post by Emarie


Dear Emarie,

This probably belongs more in the philosophy section than the faith section; but, I will attempt to answer anyways.

How does one go from doubt to believe?

We must define terms. Both doubt and belief start from the same point, the mind has a thought, it considers a possibility. We are presented with two possibilities, the thought may be right or wrong. We consider what we know and choose. I know I exist because I experience things even if I do not understand them. We start with what we know. An answer which negates us existing is therefore silly.

Lets consider the words now. Doubt means that we believe that our thought could be wrong. Belief means that we think our answer is probably true. Faith means that we believe that our thought is correct to the point where we are willing to to take actions based on our belief. The opposite of faith is disbelief, that is when you make decisions and take actions presuming that the alternate perspectives are in-correct. Faith and disbelief are the same, belief and doubt are not.

Originally posted by InnerPeace2012
Perhaps your looking the wrong way...

Believing in something is too strong of a stance in my opinion.

Perhaps being open-minded about things in general can be beneficial in that it allows for a neutral stance, while observing and learning all the while...

Peace

Thank you for aswering.

I feel like I have always been open-minded (I grew up in East Germany for the first childhood-years where there were no beliefs or religions taught at all. My first idea about "how the world might work" if you wanna call it that, I learned from fairytales which I loved and listened to 24/7 when I was little, and in those it was all about being good-hearted and friendly towards everything and everyone and if you are no harm will ever come to you. I did really believe that when I was little. I guess life showed me otherwise later and that's where my doubts started to form. So I spent my life looking for answers and have read so much ever since the German wall came down and we suddenly had so much access to knowledge and especially with the internet later ... I found so many things that fascinate me deeply and that I felt resonated with my own experiences. So many things made sense ... as much sense as the fairy tale thing in the beginning. Maybe my problem is that I am being afraid of being disappointed again like I was when I was a child.

Originally posted by Emarie
How does one go from doubt to believe?
How does that work?
Especially if one has never seen proof.

Hello to you too! I was never able to believe without doubt. They are just opposites of one another and both involve the brain more than real feeling. Belief involves something we think and hope is true, but don't really know for sure because if we did, we wouldn't really need to believe - it would just be the case.

For instance, if you have proof of the Divine in your life, then you don't need belief. In fact, belief is just a mental pattern that actually obstructs really understanding and feeling what is actually true.

So personally, I don't find belief useful at all. However, faith is another matter. Having faith in your whole life process, and remaining consistently open in this faith disposition, allows the Reality in which we all appear to intervene in some way that may only be obvious to you, and it may not even be exactly what you expect.

Faith is heart-intelligent, is founded in feeling one's inherent non-separation and real awareness of one's life altogether and what is true. Belief already presupposes that we know what is best for us. I prefer to let the Reality in which this body-mind arises to be the basis for whatever choices I make. And Reality is highly discriminating! Reality wants to be recognized as the Truth by all of us. That I have faith in, and no need to believe one way or another. This is tacitly obvious to the heart.

Best to you and a very nice first thread too!

For me it started early and wasn't so much spoken as expected. My parents believed and went to church so I was taught how it was and told what I was to believe. I accepted it because that is just how it was. Me however always being a questioning and strong personality didn't just believe what I was told. I pretended that I believed what I was told to believe. My path to believing worked backwards really.. I believed until I could think for myself. Once I could think for myself, I read and questioned it all. When none of it made any logical sense and there was no real reason to believe, I stopped.

I think however a lot of people go from a non believer into believing through personal experiences. At least this is what I have noticed through the years. I never could buy into it, I especially had a hard time with Christianity as a woman because the religion seems to view women as lower than men.

Originally posted by intrptr
Let me ask you this. Since you have yet to receive proof, what still keeps you searching for it? Thats part of your answer.

Hi intrptr and thank you for your words,
I think what still keeps me searching is that I want to believe in the things I mentioned (reincarnation, spirit being around us, good things ...).

Originally posted by intrptr
One shovel full at a time? Like the mustard tree seed, it takes a long time to move a mountain.

Well, it's true, I tend to become a little impatient at times Of course it is easy to try and justify that like a little brat saying: But I have been searching for so looooooong already ;-)

Originally posted by intrptr
You are asking people that when you should be turning that inquiry inward. Everyone has an antenna straight to heaven (as it were), a genuine request will not go unanswered, even thought this may take a life time. Life is life long. Be patient.

I am asking people because inwardly I seem to be stuck here and now. You know, I am someone who always tries to do everything on her own, I never even talk about things like these, I meditate a lot and tried a lot of things always without any help or assistance. I guess since I found this forum a couple of weeks ago I just thought: If ever, ask someone on here

Originally posted by intrptr
You are asking for proof, not something they generally respond too. Who are you to command spirits? In due time you will get your proof. I could tell you stories but there is no proof in that for you, you have to have your own experiences, then you'll know.

Well, it's not like that, I feel. I'd never say: Come on you spirits, DO it, I command you! ;-) That's just not something I'd ever say neither to spirit nor a person. I just sometimes look at the wind chime and think or say: "Wouldn't it be nice if it would actually sing with no wind in the room at all? I'd so love to hear that." But whenver I do I feel the doubt in me and I think that is the reason it doesn't happen. It's all about the doubt.

Sigh.

I'm not sure if I have ever discussed this on ATS before or not. It's possible I have, as it's something I openly speak of in my real life. Having said that... I tend to avoid religious topics on ATS. Partly because I am staff and feel that it would be inappropriate in a way - like discussing religion at work ( For those who don't know - ATS staff are all 100% volunteer. So it's not a job - but it sometimes feels like one. ). Either way it's something that some find mind-numbingly strange - and others... Well, I've seen grown, very hardened men, get choked up over it. So I imagine it's all in the eye of the beholder...

How I came to believe in God:

Through my teenage years, and into my early twenties I would refer to my religion as 'Satanist" if asked. I suppose that this is probably due to my father. A man who was always an enigma to me. In his youth he attended college and graduated with a degree in Theology and went into the ministry. That much I know. That's about it though. What else I know is that a few months after becoming a minister, he quit, went back into the military ( after having served at 17 in the Korean War ) and, from that point forward, not only was he an atheist - but he hated God. I don't know why. I just know that is what I grew up with - so, like any good son, I followed in my fathers footsteps. At least to a degree.

In my case I didn't hate God at all because I did not believe he existed. At eighteen I had a cardiac arrest and a near death experience and still didn't believe. I figured it was my oxygen starved mind playing tricks on me. The fact that the entire thing was religious in nature and I didn't believe one iota in religion meant nothing at all to me. I just bounced back from it ( and open heart surgery a month later ) and kept on being my usual, fun, totally hedonistic self.

A few years went by and I finally met my match in a woman named Terri. My God she was beautiful. She'd hate that I know it... but she still is stunningly beautiful even into her forties. Black hair, high cheek bones, crystal blue eyes.... I know this only because her older sister and I reconnected a few years back and I saw pictures because she showed them to me... I wasn't stalking my ex! Anyway... I fell head over heels in love at first site.

Funny thing. I'd always had really good luck with the ladies and had never really been told "No"... until Terri. Terri didn't just say "No", or "No thanks"... she said "Eeeeeeewww HELL NO!!!!". And she said it over and over and over again! But it was that first "No" that mattered. I'd asked her out in public, in front of our mutual friends ( How I met her ) and, as a face saving ploy, I suppose, I replied to that "Eeeeeeeewwwww HELL NO!!!" with the words "I am going to marry you. Mark my words."

Four years later - three and a half years into our live-in relationship, I did just that. It was a hurried decision because, you see, she was visibly pregnant. We had decided that it would be more traumatic on our child to know that we married a few months before he came into the world - than it would be if we just never got married. So we'd decided to not ever get married.

This is where the God part comes in...

It was a three step thing. The first thing that happened had to do with the fact that I was a metalhead and had long, long hair. One night I had a dream that my child was born, the doctor cleaned up the baby, turned to me with a smile, handed the beautiful and healthy baby to me. As I looked down upon this wonderous and life changing site... my newborn baby said "Mama".

The next morning I went to the barber shop and got a military style haircut. Short, short, short and spikey on top.

Though I didn't understand it at the time, that dream began the dominoes of my soul toppling. As soon as I cut my hair I began to obsess about the word "bastard". It took about 3 or 4 days of stewing and I was over it. Two or three days after that I got off off work an hour early, went to the Justice of the Peace and got married. This was in late October.

The final piece in the puzzle is where it gets weird, but hopefully the above information informs about my mindset and where my priorities were.

Being close to Christmas, the Christmas specials were on TV. One night, in boredom, I decided to watch the claymation story of "The Little Drummer Boy". I'd seen it many times, but it was what was on. So I watched.

Somewhere in that show it hit me. A baby changed everything. The whole world. A helpless infant!?! In that moment, it all made sense. For the first and last time in my life - I understood God. I saw his face and knew his mind, just for the most fleeting of moments.

Once that happens to a person? Well, you simply believe.

I love this type of thread EMarie...

This is a link to a post I wrote recently about my own experience.

This is one of my favorite video's about prayer:

“We just don’t want to come to the end of our lives and realize that we were playing
a game." Playlist

Always remember: He knows every thought and He KNOWS you are searching!

He may be waiting to see how serious you actually are.

Below is a quote and a link to a book I just recently read:

“What is your name?” I asked him.

“Azar’ the angel said, “I’m the one who answers when you call for help.”

“Don’t you want to know why you’re here?” he asked. He smiled at me and spoke quietly, “The Creator of the universe desires your company. Don’t keep Him waiting.”

The Heavens Opened

Here are some links that might help you:

What Are You Living For?

The Purpose of Your Life

You have a PURPOSE ~ ALL beings have a purpose

Is God Hearing Your Prayers?

When God Doesn't Listen

Set your heart on a pilgrimage to be great in eternity

Who are you?

WHY PEOPLE GO THROUGH TRIALS

Disobedience creates a wall between you and Him

Many come to believe because of a supernatural experience.

That's how it was with me.

I wasn't actually looking for God in fact.

My experience wasn't nearly as dramatic as Kirk Martin's but it had the same affect on me basically because I knew it was miraculous:

Heavy metal rocker Kirk Martin made a pact with the devil. But then one day a mysterious stranger pinpointed Kirk's deepest secret and Kirk began a journey to God.

"I was sitting in a fast food restaurant in early morning," said Kirk. "I was rarely awake in the early mornings—I was drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette when this old man walked in. He was about 5 foot 3 with a white bushy beard and hair, a big red nose, and he wore a little black yarmulke and a trench coat. He came in, got coffee and sat down right across from me.

Immediately I got in his face and said, 'What's up Pops?' He answered, 'What's up Pops?' I said, 'What's up Dad?' He said, 'What's up Dad?' (Imitating me) I got mad because he was mocking me, so I jumped across the table and screamed every foul, disgusting word I could possibly think of. He literally didn't budge. (Most people were scared of me—I could walk across an intersection and hear people locking their doors!)

But, this man just looked me in the eye and said, 'Jesus sent me here to tell you that He loves you.' My first gut reaction was to jump up and rip his eyeballs out of his head. But before I could get my feet to tell the rest of my body to jump, he said, 'And He wants you to know that He wasn't responsible for these young men molesting you when you were a little boy.' The interesting thing was, he called them by name. I had never told anyone that in my life.

Kirk was shocked. "I felt like someone cut my feet off and all the blood drained from my body. It honestly freaked me out; I didn't know what to think. Then the guy got up and said, 'Jesus loves you and He's waiting for you to turn your face toward home,' and he walked out. I was literally paralyzed by what had just happened, but when I got my composure back, I jumped up and ran after him because I had to know how he knew all that. The guy had to be no more than 15 or 20 feet ahead of me; he turned a corner, went behind a row of hedges and just disappeared. I never saw him again."

The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

"I ended up going out into this field by his house and, falling to the ground, I began to curse God and spit at the name of Jesus; I began to claw the earth and said,“Satan, give me what I want, and I’ll twist and take as many people as I can to hell with music.”

Two days later, a guy who had been working as our manager called and said, “Look, there’s a record label and they want to know how much you would want to go into the studio and what budget you’d need to record.”

Read Full Story...

reply to post by Emarie

Sorry for the delay. Everyone has this built in desire like programming to connect spiritually with something over there. What I meant by "commanding spirits" was asking them to do things for you (like prove yourself by moving something). The spirit world works on its schedule, not ours. Thats what I meant. Doing parlor tricks for the living is not their mission. Its hard for me to describe this today for some reason.

Thing is, I think you are on the right path because you are not giving up and don't just believe because you are supposed to or someone told you to. Thats a good outlook.

That part of you that wants to believe is the right one. The one that refuses to give up in searching. Thats what life is, a searching, growing process. Thats what the moving mountains or growing a mustard tree means I think. It takes a lifetime of living what do you call it, correctly. Trying to help others, do the tight thing, be generous if you can, etc. Thats what will get your spiritual reward, thats what will make you feel complete inside. Then it won't matter so much if you "see spirit activity" or not. Most know whats right to do in any given moment, just live your life guided by decency and manners, etc.

Or something like that.

reply to post by Emarie


I don't have a story for you, only instructions...

Understand what love is, and what it isn't... and apply it to your every day life...

Read the gospels... that being Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas... (optional but it helps )

And know that life doesn't cease when your body does...

reply to post by Emarie


And once we get to the point where we fully believe in a god or spirits being around us all the time how do we find comfort in the fact that they are there all the time: when we are sitting on the toilet, when we take a shower, when we pick our nose, when we engage in sex, when we change out of messy underwear....

Though I am 99% sure that a god and spirits don't exist in the way most people think of these beings, I am a thousand percent sure that I don't want them to exist.

As for religion and God it basically boils down to whether God has destined you to believe or not. If He hasn't then there is absolutely no way you ever will. You can't fight Gods will.

If your just looking for spiritual enlightenment, whatever that is, or a belief in the supernatural, you should never outright believe.

Instead follow Socrates advice and be wise by admitting you know nothing. Keep an open mind and don't allow yourself to reject or accept anything outright. As others have said, including Socrates, it is a constant search for new information.

I am pretty sure the sky is blue but if someone tells me it isn't then I will listen to them, perhaps they have something important to add to my knowledge about the sky. I admit I don't know anything so anything is possible. You will find yourself hovering in the middle on these issues and usually with more knowledge than others because you are willing to accept anything.

Akragon gave some real good advice.

In fact that is how I had my first supernatural encounter which I mentioned here.

Below are some others with similar experiences:

In the summer of 1974, when I was eight years old, I went into my bedroom after school one day to read my daily assignment in the Bible. I wanted to hurry up and finish reading the four chapters of the Gospel of John that I was to read that day, so I could get back out and play with my friends.

I lay down on the bed with my Bible in my hands. As soon as my head touched the pillow, however, the Bible, the bed, my room, and even my body disappeared! I had no warning.

All I knew that afternoon in 1974 was that suddenly I was flying through the heavenlies at an unbelievable speed. I passed many things in the first heaven, then zoomed through the second heaven, and landed outside of the biggest gate I had ever seen—or have ever seen since.

All I can say is that it was very wide, very tall and had no cut or blemish in it. This gate was made of one solid pearl, one immense glossy, glowing white pearl, and the edges were carved with a design. It was the biggest gate I had ever seen in my life. Its presence gave forth not an aura—but its own glow—its own life. I shook myself to see if I were dreaming. It had all happened so fast. But I decided it was real when I heard a voice speaking to me. A man said, "This is one of the gates." I turned around, and there stood Jesus Christ in all His glory!

Caught Up to Heaven

Ian Clayton, an ex-sorcerer also had a supernatural encounter:

At age 12, his growing awareness of God led him to the Bible and he started reading it from the beginning. Halfway through Deuteronomy he decided that it was full of rules and regulations and didn’t want anything to do with it. Just as he shut the Bible he heard a voice say, “Put your hand on top of the table and pick the table up.” Ian put his hand flat on the table top and it rose, sideways off the floor. “It was an amazing power rush,” Ian explained. “Suddenly, I walked in power.”

Excerpt from Shifting Shadows of Supernatural Power

Praying all night in the mosque, he asked God to help him. Suddenly he felt drops of oil falling on him and even smelled its fragrance, he says. He claims another time he heard an audible voice telling him to read a Bible—an abomination to a Muslim. “We would not touch a modern-day Bible,” he says. “This voice immediately put a desire in my heart. It is so vivid, so clear, so overwhelming. Still today, I could not forget that voice.”

Why Revival is Exploding Among Muslims

Steven Brooks in Alabama heard an audible voice speak while reading a Bible:

"At that time of the day, nobody was at the house. My family, my brothers plus my grandmother, they had all gone somewhere else, up the hill to do something. And I was spending time in one of the rooms of the house, alone, just reading my Bible, and after a while, I just laid out on the floor and was praying, and kind of reading the Bible, and I heard a voice speak to me, it sounded like a male voice, it was audible, and it said "Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you."

Working With Angels

There are also a couple of people here on ATS who have had similar experiences:

Originally posted by Rustami
thanks for reminding me of what I consider an important detail - He spoke at the exact moment I began to open a Gideon New Testament, which I think was "written" in the 80's?

reply to post by jiggerj

they are there all the time: when we are sitting on the toilet, when we take a shower, when we pick our nose, when we engage in sex, when we change out of messy underwear....

But wait , it gets better. Not only have they (spirits of angels, family and friends passed) been watching your every sordid behavior... but your mind has recorded every thought you had while doing it, for later play back to everyone on... judgment day.

That'll be a kick. Exposed before your peers. It'll be alright though. Just imagine what they been doing all their lives behind closed doors.

Originally posted by Hopechest
As for religion and God it basically boils down to whether God has destined you to believe or not. If He hasn't then there is absolutely no way you ever will. You can't fight Gods will.

If your just looking for spiritual enlightenment, whatever that is, or a belief in the supernatural, you should never outright believe.

The thing is, religion ALWAYS lies...

You should never outright believe... Religion.

Believing that God has destined you to believe or not is a religious LIE.

Religion is just as much a lie as the humanistic "gospel of Socrates" is.

Those who claim that God predestinated some to be saved while letting the others go to Hell, are accusing God of being a liar. The Bible plainly teaches that Christians are predestinated to be conformed to the “image” of Christ. This is NOT being chosen for salvation. God NEVER chooses who will be saved, or who won't. The Bible plainly says that God in His foreknowledge knew who would be saved, and then God predestinates them to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ. What a precious truth to know that God wants what's best for each of His children!

LINK

Satan confuses the principle of predestination with the omniscience of God in order to deceive people as he has deceived Eve at the Garden of Eden. The doctrine of predestination was founded by few theologians who learned their theology real well but are ignorant in the word of God. These theologians, probably being proud people, did not receive the grace of God. Grace is available to those who are humble enough to receive it. Those who are not living a godly life are not chosen by God.

The "Doctrine of Predestination" is ungodly and absurd

"...extreme Calvinism, the teaching that some people, by the foreordained plan of God, are predestined to be saved and some are predestined to be lost, and that their destinies were settled before they were born, is a wicked heresy contrary to the Bible, that dishonors God and has done incalculable harm. The heresy of extreme Calvinism is particularly appealing"

Does God predestine some men to Hell?

Nowhere does the Bible teach that God wills for some to go to Heaven and wills others to go to Hell. No. The Bible teaches that God would have all men to be saved. Second Peter 3:9 says that He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." First Timothy 2:4 says, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." Those who teach that God would only have some to be saved, while He would have others to be lost are misrepresenting God and the Bible.

Why I Disagree With All 5 Points of Calvinism

1 Timothy 2:1-6 "First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of ALL MEN, for kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for ALL, the testimony borne at the proper time."

The teaching of Predestination as it has been traditionally taught through the history of the Church is a Christian heresy not supported by the Word of God as is clearly indicated by the passage above. Predestination?