Papal Elections 2013 - why it will not matter.

It makes about as much difference as having a new president.

Nothing will change anytime soon. At this rate, the crumbling of the RCC could take a couple of more centuries.

Not so long ago this was all a big joke. Now that it is an ugly reality, instead of seeing the Vatican in flames we see the ritual white smoke. Business as usual.

These turds are gonna be hard to flush. The kind that leave skid marks.

Ok, I have not posted here for a while. My views on the Catholic Church are not of any importance, but I am not Catholic.
I have been reading a fair bit today on the new head of the Catholic Church, and inevitably, he has a past.
I am not sure how reliable the source is, but if you respect it, then this is an interesting read:
www.globalresearch.ca...

Apologies if it is slightly off topic, but nevertheless, all information is worthy of consideration.

Originally posted by pheonix358
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

You have strong beliefs, I admire that.

I do not admire repetitious dogma that continues to make excuses for God's bad behaviour. We are made in His image, that is why we are this uncaring, warlike species.

P

God doesn't have bad behavior; maybe better, unjustified behavior; and certainly not imperfect behavior by any means. So that you are wrong about.

But the warlike species being because we are in His image? Yes, that's correct. You are darn right that is correct.

But you see, we are very foolish about our wars; the battles that we choose to fight - and the reason for which we are fighting.

You see, God fought at all times to teach His children lessons, to bring them home, and make them understand what is good, to show them how low he sees humans that want to act like animals (and so allows the destruction of those humans by the animalistic destruction as a witness against them); and warns humans to stop being like those animals. The reason why God used the hand of some men to execute was so that the blood was upon their hands as a later witness against them.

God knows your inner heart inside and out. Every time one of your neurons fires, He knows before your brain does which possibilities are at stake. And everyone else's in the world, at the same time. He has much better reasoning abilities and logic abilities; He understands the inner parts way better than you ever will. And then you want to accuse Him for His warlike behavior, which is fully justified?

But at least you see how it is ugly. No one said that it is not ugly. But no one said that war wasn't required either. You still think too surface; too fleshy. You're not really inside your heart deep enough yet to understand.

The flesh is a rotting corpse right now. It is already dead. WE ARE walking dead in the flesh. So why in the world are you judging the character of what is good and bad based upon the pains of the flesh? That is utter vanity.

But - we are able to sometimes interpret the intention in someone's heart based upon their actions in the flesh.. indeed. And this is what we pay attention to. You see, if someone slaps me in the face to save me from another aggressor or a speeding bullet, well, what nice intentions you see; that shock of lightning across the skin of my cheek feels like love sweet love.

But if someone slaps me in the face because they don't like me, well, that hurts a little bit. You know?

And this isn't even that deep; I mean even you can understand any of this.

So then why don't you think a little bit deeper before you decide to tempt the Mightiest Intelligence in the world? It was only ignorance, you're not being blamed, but now you've been shown.

reply to post by pheonix358


You're blaming God for people's wrong doings? There's also the old "we were given free will" issue that you seem to have forgotten. We make our own decisions in this life and we shouldn't "blame" God if we chose bad ones.

Saying 'Well i did it so God must do it' that's just silly.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


I hope you are not representing your views as being that of a Christian, because Christians believe that
"God is Love" Love and war have no other relationship than polar opposites.

I'm not saying that you were, but some readers might think you were and there by reinforcing their disdain and continued ignorance of what Christianity represents.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


True, for action a reaction............can I suggest you alter your "devil/evil god/good" just a bit.
"devil/evil god/love"..........good is a subjective term and does not mean the same thing as love, even though often they can go hand in hand....it is when they don't that causes so many many problems....

Try viewing and understanding the world with just that change and see where it leads you.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

I hope you are not representing your views as being that of a Christian, because Christians believe that
"God is Love" Love and war have no other relationship than polar opposites.

I'm not saying that you were, but some readers might think you were and there by reinforcing their disdain and continued ignorance of what Christianity represents.

Apparently you don't know God very well.

You need to read the level of violence that God allows to come upon the world soon. You should also read what God does to those who have been sealed in their filth and reject Him.

Or have you not read about God's judgment?

God is a God of war. He has said it many times in the Bible.

Did I say that God believes the wars of men are justified? Not by any means. Did I say that God believes that vengeance belongs to man? Never, not at all.

But what God has done is undeniable. The question that people have that do not know God is "why" God has performed the acts, and also why He will perform the acts that He will.

And further, why He allows war today, and always has; and yet, He will end all the wars, for good.

But how can you call yourself a follower of God and not respect the soldiers of God?

Have you not read that was preordained for Christ to be killed, and that Christ was handed over to the Jews and Romans of His own will? Does Christ cast a stumbling block? No, He does not.

So then, if Christ had the power to keep them from being murderers, why didn't He prevent it?

Because God has a greater purpose in His will. You're still judging things based on the flesh instead of based upon the Spirit.

As Jesus said to Peter when Peter said, "Lord, these things will not be so." Jesus said, "Get behind me Satan; for you care about the things of this world instead of the Kingdom of God."

reply to post by TarzanBeta


I take no issue with what you believe, in fact I agree with you that I have little to no understanding of your god or your religion. I just don't want readers thinking you are representing the Christian faith. I am guessing that since this is a Pope thread, readers would assume you were.

reply to post by pheonix358


S&F your thread.
I am officially fed up of all the people talking about the new pope and his story, etc. etc. It's just more of the same!!!!
WHO cares really! This is obviously just a circus to take away the attention of the important things happening all around the world. But again, what everyone just talk is "the new pope".

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

I take no issue with what you believe, in fact I agree with you that I have little to no understanding of your god or your religion. I just don't want readers thinking you are representing the Christian faith. I am guessing that since this is a Pope thread, readers would assume you were.

Interesting. You agree that you know nothing about my God and yet you want to make sure to control what the readers think regarding my God. Our God.

Do you even realize what you are saying?

You are all free to assume as you please. Those to whom the truth is given, they will receive it. And those to whom the truth is not given, then they will not receive it.

But if you want truth, then accept that the Lord Jesus Christ is my God and that He has chosen me to be His and for His glory. And His chosen are not here to speak the truth to those who will not accept it. That's pointless. We are here to speak the truth so that those that already know the truth recognize it and we are drawn together because of it. There is no physical banner under which we can claim fellowship and service; but a name; and a name that is no longer a part of any existing church today. Though many claim it, none have it.

The name is Jesus Christ and His chosen are among those whom you all have rejected, and judged, and accused - all with the utmost of hypocrisy.

I am not bound by your thoughts or your ideas of what I should be doing. I have been chosen, not of myself; but I have bound myself to the truth because it is a freedom to me. But it is a snare unto you.

And you don't like to hear the prophecy of your end because it pains you to realize that you won't accept God before He has fully sealed everyone to their fate. This is further witness against you.

But this is comfort to those who know God is in their hearts; even those same ones you all will accuse of not being Christian; the same ones that you judge their little actions instead of understanding their hearts. The same ones that you believe are not living up to your standards and your traditions and your banners and your laws -- these are the same ones who have been appointed for glory. For they realized that there was nothing we could do to earn the Kingdom of God or its rewards, but that it was given to whom God chose, freely, of HIS will, and not by any means our will; not even for a second.

If you knew what "Christian faith" meant, you would have simply said this: "I don't want the readers to think that you have the Spirit of God." Or even, "I don't want the readers to think that you are a Prophet." Or even, "I don't want the readers to think that you are a king." Or even, "I don't want the readers to believe that you are a priest."

But yet, God has said that He has made us kings and priests; all of His children, His elect, His chosens; and He also has shown us that we are all prophets who declare the testimony of Jesus, because the testimony of Jesus Christ IS the Spirit of Prophecy. Do we not have the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John on the island of Patmos? Is that not also Prophecy? But truly, the gospels that we preach are also prophecy. So we speak words of the future that will surely take place, and therefore we are prophets because we know it and it has been revealed to us. And therefore you are afraid.

And we are kings. We rule; but our Throne, which Jesus Christ has shared with us, is in Heaven. Our hearts rest on Him, Our Lord, Our Rest, Where His seat is. This is how we are made kings. We obey God; not man. We respect the laws of men for the preservation of the people until the appointed time. We respect what authority God has given to people; and this we do freely because God has given us authority to say to one, "you have authority" and to another "you do not"; because God has given us possession of our own souls again, because we gave our souls to Him to possess.

And we are priests; we pray for you when you don't want it. We pray on behalf of those who hurt us. We forgive your sins and ask forgiveness for ours and yours also. We are priests in the temple of our hearts, where God resides. Do you not see yet?

What need would we have for the Kingdom of God on this planet now, which it has manifest in His children, unless all of the evil that has taken place was allowed to take place also? How will the transgression be finished unless it is made to happen?

You know nothing of God. Jesus Christ is our General in war; and as you well know, this planet is a battlefield.

Any who do not understand this have not been given understanding; understanding comes from God. So I can hardly blame you. But then that means that you are to blame, for you are not yet sealed; and therefore not justified.

What then can you possibly say for yourself?

Would a child understand anything you were saying? You sound like any other Pharisee to me.

God is Love. Love one another. Do on to others. These are concepts better understood by little kids than it is to people like you.

Another group you sound like is those that read the Constitution and proclaim to be Constitutional scholars. There isn't a human alive that can read it and give a universally accepted interpretation of it, not even from the guys that created it. The 9 so called experts we have can rarely get more than 5 to agree at a time.

I'm pretty sure the NT mentions something about the heart of a child. Christianity comes hard to the elitist and even harder for those that rely on line after line of scripture that has been twisted to fit their justification for evil.

Jesus didn't spend his life preaching to the choir. Fundamentalist "christians" do.

On topic......This pope seems very humble to me, so it might matter

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Would a child understand anything you were saying? You sound like any other Pharisee to me.

God is Love. Love one another. Do on to others. These are concepts better understood by little kids than it is to people like you.

Another group you sound like is those that read the Constitution and proclaim to be Constitutional scholars. There isn't a human alive that can read it and give a universally accepted interpretation of it, not even from the guys that created it. The 9 so called experts we have can rarely get more than 5 to agree at a time.

I'm pretty sure the NT mentions something about the heart of a child. Christianity comes hard to the elitist and even harder for those that rely on line after line of scripture that has been twisted to fit their justification for evil.

Jesus didn't spend his life preaching to the choir. Fundamentalist "christians" do.

On topic......This pope seems very humble to me, so it might matter

Really? Actually Jesus spent his entire life preaching only to the choir. He did not preach to the ones who were not reserved for eternal life. The only thing He did is reveal to them their hypocrisy.

But everyone to whom He preached, those that He healed, and called to discipleship and to teaching; these are the ones to whom He preached.

What point is there in preaching that which is good to those that are reserved to death? Except to be a witness against them at their judgment.

God is not bound by your definition of love.

You think I sound like a Pharisee? But I do not force any law upon you, nor cause you to refrain from speaking. But you were telling me to keep my mouth shut if I claim to be a follower of Christ. Which did the Pharisees do?

Interpretation of God's Word belongs to GOD ONLY. Not to you to interpret as you please; and not to man to take from it only what he will. And so then does it bother you that because interpretation belongs only to God, that I interpret properly? What does that say about me to you then?

We are to be little children in vengeance, that is true. We are indeed to love and to let perfect love have its vengeance. That is indeed true.

However, we are not to be little children in understanding. Even a child can understand that God will destroy, with violence, and great vengeance, all those who have hurt His little children and denied their Father and denied His Son. God said it. You've read it. What is your problem with it? Except that you are convicted by it, but not to righteousness, but to defend yourself still so that you may feel comfort. Your comfort isn't going to last very long at all.

If you are lost and astray, and you are walking the wrong path, and that path is certain death, and the words of your friend cannot convince you that you are about to fall into a pit to your death; is your friend a better friend for letting you walk into the pit so that you lose your soul? Or is your friend a better friend if he pushes you on your behind, and picks you up, and carries you against your will, away from the pit, until and if you are willing to heed understanding?

If you are in a theater, and you see a crowd full of innocent people, and then you notice before any one else does that a man with a weapon is about to open fire on the crowd; do you kill him to save everyone else? Or do you say to yourself, "Let him kill everyone else. It is better to love than to kill." But then, this one who is murdering, he is killing people at this moment. Who do you love? The one who hates or the innocent ones? And yes, it is said, that we should love our enemy as we love ourselves, truly.

So then if you are lost and astray, and you become angry and depressed, and you lose all your understanding, and you set it in your heart to murder people, because of your pain and suffering -- would you rather that someone were to put you out of your misery before you murdered many people, possibly securing your soul before you murdered many people? Or would you rather that people let you murder them and have upon your soul the burden of many murders; from which a human soul barely returns from hell, and from it doesn't heal.

Do you not see that the love of which you speak, you have absolutely no understanding of it? You are paying attention to the flesh, still. You are following the corruption that has been implemented over time into His words.

Now if you are a child of God, and you are taken away to be executed for your faith, THEN it is love to let that one die, because their patience is manifest, and their time is complete, and they go to sleep until the time of their resurrection and redemption. And to the one who executes, it can be forgiven, and it is an honor, but a shame afterwards. And God converts the executioners many times.

Do you pay attention to anything besides the flesh? How can you hope to know the Kingdom of God if you cannot halt your physical eyes?

As tempting as it would be to engage you in debating what Christianity is and isn't, there would be no point.

........that just made me think of a thread I would really want to see and follow. "A Muslim debating a Muslim fundamentalist" I know for a fact I would learn something and I bet it would teach a lot of people something too.

Christian debate on ATS, I have found, are not interesting nor informative because it all boils down to who can throw the most misinterpreted scripture at the other......do you know why I know those people are wrong?...because they call themselves Christian yet have more than a dozen different denominations because they can't agree on some of the most basic things........Do you think most people, that reject Christianity, base it on theology? No, they base it on those that profess to be Christians. Almost everything out of their mouth is hypocrisy and what isn't hypocrisy is a selection of indoctrinated mantras void of thinking or understanding, void of compassion and empathy.

I will give you just one lame example. Only Christians go to heaven. Why is that? Is it because it says somewhere in the Bible that "only through me shall you enter. . ."

How about this interpretation, in the Bible somewhere, it says stuff like, "when I was hungry you fed me"..."when did I do that?"..."what so ever you do to the least of my brothers, you do on to me"
That could be interpreted to mean that if you love others you are loving God or Jesus and he will know you and "only through him" will you get into heaven. He might say, "hey there, nice to see you again, welcome"

You should hope I and any others that might take that Christian interpretation are wrong. Because telling gays they are sinners, or evil, or can't marry or adopt children, is not loving. Murder in the name of war is not loving.
But what should really concern you is the act of turning away lost sheep, or locking the doors to God's kingdom because their shoes are muddy. Fundamentalist Christians crush the souls of people, they turn people away from God in droves.

My only purpose in responding to your first post in the first place was to unlock the door you locked just in case someone was wandering by.

When TarzanBeta or anyone else for that matter says

"Interesting. You agree that you know nothing about my God and yet you want to make sure to control what the readers think regarding my God. Our God."

I tend to lose interest. It is the inclusion and transfer from my God to Our God. I respect anothers belief until the point where their God has to be my God.

To put this in a nutshell. All of these churches act in God's name. God has lightening bolts. Why the crap can't he send a few down to keep his servants in line.

He is all knowing, all powerful and he had to see this coming. Now if a new but evil Pope gets elected I expect and demand that God send down a veto in the form of a lightening bolt. Pillar of salt does it for me as well.

Setting up an entire world for failure is not what I want for a God. This does not show love, it shows an ego that says, na na I told ya so.

One Lightening bolt would have stopped WW2. But no, the big poo head is too bloody lazy.

You can keep making excuses for God, well, I reject those excuses out of hand. He is just a poo poo head.

P


ETA
Yes I know, I will be standing there on judgement day and God looks at me and says, "you called me a poo poo head!"

I'm sure he has been called worse things than poo poo head.
...as far as ridding evil doers in the world......WE are the body.......I know it sounds tarded....

Ponder this, everyone in the world being an exact clone of you, meaning all of a sudden you are the entire population of the planet... (we are assuming here that you are a decent person)....you would think it would now be a Just and peaceful world, no wars....you would get food to you, you wouldn't kill you....No, you didn't become Borg like because all of you retain individual choice. People have free will. So, chances are you would prefer to live in the White House over a tin roof hut out in the middle of Sudan. You can't all live in the White House. You can't provide all of you awesome homes and ps3's overnight. Do you trust you to take care of you? If one of you starts running the show and manages to convince 10 or 20 of you to form a gang because you promise the other yous they will live large, how long would you be able to attempt this before the other millions of you stop you? You wouldn't have to kill you to stop you, but you would be stopped.......now let your imagination take this as far as you want.

Did you need God to throw down a bolt to stop you? No.

How does any of this have anything to do with reality? Because it simplifies understanding of the "treat other as you would want to be treated" "love thy neighbor" so you can see how it would be if we all did, and how it truly is when we don't. Where is God in all that? It really is a simple concept but people try so hard to complicate it as if the answer needs to be more complicated in order for it to be profound.
....God is Love........Every body has love and the capacity to love, everybody, Hitler too....How much love you have is how much God you have......Evil is the opposite of Love.....100% Evil is 100% absence of Love, ergo 100% absence of God..."nothingness" Pope John Paul II even agreed with that when he said, "Hell is not so much of a place as it is a condition" look that up, pretty radical for the Church.

Why doesn't everyone just choose to Love then? ( to answer that you can look up thousands and thousands of those sayings like..."Love is not jealous" "love is giving" "Love is...blah blah blah" but the running theme is that Love is not easy. Evil is easy.

I went rogue here and got preachy......the point, and the answer to your question,....we are the ones empowered by God who lives in each of us to "throw the lightning bolt" ( for me that means removing threats using humane and lawful means as we hope our dad would treat us for crashing his Benz while driving drunk after robbing a bank.).......but as you know.....

The Body in reality isn't as coordinated as it would be if this was the planet "You" like I said above.