Atheist Sunday Assembly goes worldwide, the future is bright for non-believers

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Originally posted by Fromabove

We understand what a religion is. Atheists want to mimic religion because they have jealousy for the religious people. What this shows is that they really do what to believe but that they just don't want to have to admit it.

No, they (just a few of them, by the way) want to take the nice parts of religion, such as the emotional support, the sense of community, and the love and friendship, and then throw away the crap, which is the God part.

What this shows is that humans are social creatures by nature, if it was all about wanting to believe don't you think it would be silly to remove the only part that actual has anything to do with belief - the God part?

Why do you cling so religiously to such an obviously flawed position?

edit on 12-3-2013 by humphreysjim because: (no reason given)

Why are you trying to convert people? You can I hope see why there is so much cynicism in this thread...

Anyway, to my main point. On several posts in this thread you have placed very strict definitions around atheism, theism, agnosticism... who on earth wrote the rulebook on being an atheist? It's very simple - your personal belief is that there is no 'thing' commonly referred to as God or the intelligent designer. End of. Full stop. That's it, there shouldn't really be any need for anything over and above that - or are you so desparate to cling to that you end up having to justify it?

Not sure what this has to do with the OP though, most negative responses seem to be from atheists who believe some (unwritten) rule has been broken by a few middle class graduates creating their own little movement and attracting people to follow it.... hold on, that sounds a bit familiar.......

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
God can only be lived and if what I am convinced is true God also lives through the atheist and their experience of life, including (and here's where it gets funny and ironic) their lack of belief in God as creator

ok, now that's a interesting thought.
If God tucked its entire being into a simple meatbag human body and wandered around earth for awhile...would he/she be a atheist...
It would seem rather pompous to start going on about how s/he believes in itself...or then again, it wouldn't be belief..only for that single instance would a gnostic make sense as s/he would know..like actually know.

So, the only possible way then for a deity to visit earth and understand our perspective is a complete "brain wipe" while in body...truly not knowing if there was a sky dad out there looking out for us...

Jesus, if he did exist and was what the bible mentioned, really didn't do justice to the whole experiencing humanity thing considering he supposedly had supernatural knowledge of the whole system going on here...

Did he truly sacrifice then in that story? If you had to get a papercut to inherit a kingdom, that wouldn't be much of a sacrifice..and expecting others to get a papercut without the same understanding of what awaits would be heavily misrepresented from his experience to ours.

just thinking out loud here.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by humphreysjim

 

Your argument is filled with flaws and isn't itself consistent.

Clearly it must not be considering your post is minimalistic and without citing any flaws or inconsistencies...

one step above sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "nanny nanny boo boo, I can't hear you"

Originally posted by KBadger
Well this thread has predictably turned into a believer versus non-believer argument. It was interesting for a short while.
As an open minded skeptical agnostic, I still think the original idea is a bit daft but to each their own.
I can just see eventually arguments amongst the weekly gathering descending into a hardcore atheist against the "agnostic" atheist and then each branch splitting off into their own weekly Sunday gatherings...

I agree with your frustration about the believer versus non-believer situation.
It would be useful if one of the believers who are so passionately against this social meeting of non-believers could explain why they feel so threatened by it and describe how such meetings are so offensive to their beliefs. The Sunday Assembly has in no way criticised or belittled religious groups, just simply celebrated the networking opportunities for non-believers.
I suspect I shall have a long wait for such a reasoned argument against this though.

reply to post by grainofsand


You choose not to believe in God; heaven etc. that is certainly your right; and I believe in your right to choose; but on this point you and I can agree to disagree.

I in my lifetime so far I have witnessed miracles; I have seen real Angels; and believe me there is a God and heaven.

Now I know I cannot prove to you what I have experienced; but it is the truth.

Perhaps someday Heaven may be revealed to you; by Heaven.

There is a difference between raising awareness of options available in the community and evangelising.
If you go through all my posts, you and others will easily see my intention is to raise awareness, unlike some of the posters suggesting hell and whatever for my actions

My Uncle who raised me believed in the light bulb theory once the bulb burned out the bulb no longer functions and is for all purposes dead.

I however look at the vastness of the universe in whimsy and say fine the light bulb burned out. However the electricity was converted into light and heat that will exist in some state or another forever...

reply to post by SaturnFX

I'm glad you're thinking maybe even about the idea of the human being functioning as God's partner by intent.

Jesus had already undergone ego-death so his sacrifice was a little different and it was more than a "paper cut".

I like the way you were thinking this through though up to the point that you felt the need to disparage Jesus' willing sacrifice or the reasoning involved, which can only be really understood from his perspective, and if you read him deeply (again) with an open mind, it's possible to discern his reason and logic.

For someone like Jesus it was imperative to maintain an indespensible I-Thou relationship with the absolute Godhead in order to avoid making the fatal error which drains away all possibility for love which to be love must exist between a beloved and beloved other.

Jesus understood himself to be a perfect reflection of the Godhead however ("whoever has seen me has seen the father").

What it then says about US is what's extraordinary..

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by grainofsand
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

 

What? People hooking up together to celebrate life without unsubstantiated scriptures ruling the agenda?
Call it what you like, it matters not. I'm looking forward to meeting loads more people who genuinely do not believe in gods in my area. They are coming out of the woodwork now organised meeting places are popping up under the Sunday Assembly brand

You really don't see why people find this ironic do you? Strange. I'm not particularly keen on darts (the sport) - do you think that if I started a community event based on nothing other than the fact everybody there doesn't like darts - no other reason and it's you that is making this analogy easy - you wouldn't find that just a little.... strange?

That's a poor argument.
When did you last see darts teams knocking on doors trying to convert non-dart players and spouting fire & brimstone to those who do not wish to play?

Most people view atheism is an individual choice, not as a membership to a club, but you are showing a side to yourself by snide remarks about various faiths that atheism is in your eyes a cult for people who aren't fooled by religion - that's paraphrasing you but fairly much sums up your comments.

I'm unaware of snide remarks from myself here, just honest and reasoned debate. If the idea of non-believers hooking up to socialise in an environment free from religious hatred and safe from cries of "you'll burn" etc concerns you, then that is unfortunate.

edit on 12-3-2013 by grainofsand because: missed out "concerns you"

No, that's a baseless comment. Apart from the Jehovahs witnesses I've never had a door knock from a religious group. And even then a quick smile and a 'Sorry, I'm not interested' is enough. Maybe you have different experiences - that is about you, your environment, not everyone else.

If you think you haven't made snide comments, go and re-read your posts and see if you think they wouldn't be seen as snide by people who don't follow the same belief as you. If you really think not, then you may want to reflect on how you interact with people you disagree with on some issue.

reply to post by grainofsand

I wish we could just get along. Believers and non believers I mean. Personally I believe in a creative force behind life but I don't think that because I do that I am in some way superior to those who don't. Just like atheists should not think they're superior to anyone who believes. Its not our place to force belief on anyone just to love one another and that's where we need to start. That goes for both sides. So if atheists want to meet together in fellowship I say go for it.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
Oh yeah I almost forgot I thought atheism wasn't a religion...if not then why do they have a church?

edit on 12-3-2013 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

It's not a church, please read the previous posts.. London has many buildings like this.. the building in question is called "The Nave" and it can be rented for community events and other various things. It's not a church. It's just a very old building with, if you ask me, a rather beautiful architectural design.

www.thenave.org...

Just re-posting this for your benefit.

The Nave is a licenced, education, arts and performance space which sits on the border of Hackney and Islington boroughs in London.

With great location, superb acoustics and a number of different sized spaces available for hire

It's a deconsecrated church - did you know that? It really is, I kid you not.

Not to prove you wrong for the sake of it or anything, but look at the picture in the link below and then convince yourself it was never a church.....

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by grainofsand

 

You choose not to believe in God; heaven etc. that is certainly your right; and I believe in your right to choose; but on this point you and I can agree to disagree.

I in my lifetime so far I have witnessed miracles; I have seen real Angels; and believe me there is a God and heaven.

Now I know I cannot prove to you what I have experienced; but it is the truth.

Perhaps someday Heaven may be revealed to you; by Heaven.

It is more reasoned conclusion than choice for me, as I suspect it is for your good self.
Of course if I had experienced any miracle type experience then my position would be influenced by such events.
To date I have not, so I do not believe in such things.
If your experiences draw you to a belief which I do not share due to lack of personal witness by myself, then I am still happy for you

And they call us hypocrites. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I'm glad you're thinking maybe even about the idea of the human being functioning as God's partner by intent.

Jesus had already undergone ego-death so his sacrifice was a little different and it was more than a "paper cut".

I like the way you were thinking this through though up to the point that you felt the need to disparage Jesus' willing sacrifice or the reasoning involved, which can only be really understood from his perspective, and if you read him deeply (again) with an open mind, it's possible to discern his reason and logic.

For someone like Jesus it was imperative to maintain an indespensible I-Thou relationship with the absolute Godhead in order to avoid making the fatal error which drains away all possibility for love which to be love must exist between a beloved and beloved other.

Jesus understood himself to be a perfect reflection of the Godhead however ("whoever has seen me has seen the father").

What it then says about US is what's extraordinary..

edit on 12-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

However you want to look at it, it is then not a accurate representation of the human experience, therefore the connection to us as someone whom walked in our shoes, by that example, is not enough.
If he required a deity to constantly be in his mind in a very literal sense in order for him to remain goodly or whatnot...then his experiment failed...unless he gave the entire world, every person for all time the exact access of certainty, then ya..doesn't count.
in gaming language, its overpowered...cheating.

Not trying to disparage the story or character mind you...frankly, if it was me coming as a deity, I wouldn't go half way...either I would go in full disconnect of knowledge, or would come down looking like a Pink Floyd laser light show and make everyone absolutely certain of what was going on...halfway solves neither dilemma...and the simple fact...fact that he knew paradise awaits..with no minor subconscious hesitation..ya..that invalidates any significance of sacrifice.
Pain sucks...sure...and it was a crap way to go out..but if you know..not believe, but know that there is something after that is awesome and will make the trials seem petty...then well,you can deal with anything for the short term.

Originally posted by meggiddo2012
And they call us hypocrites. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

18 pages...18 dang pages and you couldn't bother to even skim the last page or two in order to see how the convo developed.

so fine.

Yes...yes we do.

reply to post by something wicked

Oh dear, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You are welcome to ignore this thread of course, but as OP I have been dealing with "you shall burn" type comments so any disagreeable comments from myself are inspired by the religious zealots who feel that a meeting place for non-believers is something worth attacking.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by Fromabove

God doesn't cancel out science. Science still works. The difference is that we know God made it, and we want to understand how it's made and what it's made of. It's the wonder of discovery. Atheism says, it's here, so what, and when you die that's it. Nothing matters at all. For me, as a Christian, everything matters.

Before you repeat the old, "earth is only 6,000 years old thing and evolution is right," let me add that the Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6,000 years old, and that it says "Let the earth bring forth the living creature.."

That being said, where were we now ?

Many Christians would argue that the earth is in fact 6,000 years old but fortunately that belief is dying out. It's still fairly common that you'll encounter groups that take the bible as literal history and argue that the earth is that young.

"We know God made it" .. you don't, you just believe it strongly without evidence.. if you knew it, you could prove it of course. There's a huge difference between believing something and knowing something and that's where science tries to do it's part.

But I won't go down this rabbit hole any further, I know it is pointless. On that, I'll exit this discussion before it swirls down the toilet =)

Many Christians don't argue the Earth is 6,000 years old, never have, never will. That's a fundamentalist opinion that has never - ever - been accepted by any mainstream faith, but it's yet another urban myth just the same as the one that many Christians reject evolution - once again, crap.

People listen to those with the loudest voice whether it's about a particular faith, political stream, whatever and assume it speaks for the masses (no pun intended given the nature of this op). Sorry, I'm neither here nor there with any particular faith, but once again this seems to be degenerating into a religion v non religion rant.

Isn't the question here around if being an atheist means you are part of a group based on your lack of faith around something? One poster has already talked about how as atheists should 'combat' religion - hmmmmm

I see there are many here that seem confused about this topic. Sometimes a chart helps people understand.


Most atheists fall in the Agnostic Atheist square. That is where I stand.

Originally posted by JoshuaLane
reply to post by grainofsand

 

I wish we could just get along. Believers and non believers I mean. Personally I believe in a creative force behind life but I don't think that because I do that I am in some way superior to those who don't. Just like atheists should not think they're superior to anyone who believes. Its not our place to force belief on anyone just to love one another and that's where we need to start. That goes for both sides. So if atheists want to meet together in fellowship I say go for it.

I agree with your sentiments about 'getting along' but I'm drawn to an environment free from religious types because I know that in the Sunday Assembly I will not be forced to deal with those people who condemn someone solely because they do not believe in their particular god idea.

Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by grainofsand

 

You choose not to believe in God; heaven etc. that is certainly your right; and I believe in your right to choose; but on this point you and I can agree to disagree.

I in my lifetime so far I have witnessed miracles; I have seen real Angels; and believe me there is a God and heaven.

Now I know I cannot prove to you what I have experienced; but it is the truth.

Perhaps someday Heaven may be revealed to you; by Heaven.

Until you prove that you've seen them, it's nothing more than claims. Which is no different than what many people that have claimed to see like God or angels.

reply to post by something wicked

I already explained that it was a former Anglican Christian church way back in this thread.
There are many in the UK due to falling attendances. There are actually a couple of decent nightclubs in my area which used to be churches, shame to waste a beautifully constructed building when the religious group that built it can no longer maintain it.