Low on Targets, Obama Considers Killing Friends of Friends of Al-Qaida

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Things have spun radically out of control Wrabbit. It is very hard for even those that do not want to see things to now feel the steady beat of the drums, they started long before now but the gentle vibration was distant and but a mere buzz in our ear. The drum beat now permeates the air and fills our ears and thoughts in the quiet of night and over flows the emptiness of our collective morality and honor, possibly, before long, maybe even our souls.

The time has come for change and until we answer the call that is tugging at us relentlessly, things will only continue to get worse, never better. This is not what America was founded to be........ By any stretch of the imagination.

reply to post by whatsecret


Al-Qaeda links?

Wasn't the CIA involved with organising and supplying them in Syria and arming the Taliban in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion?

Doesn't look good for the CIA then does it.

reply to post by Helious
I hear what you are saying and I'm seeing the same radical out of control issues that you are. The Nanny state that Bloomberg is creating atop his personal 25 billion dollar fortune is one example and extreme to Obama carrying on and greatly expanding on Bush era programs of preemptive strike and warfare as a justified tactic.

I absolutely do recall a time where even being caught openly meddling in a nation's civil war in relatively small ways like happened in Nicaragua and El Salvador nearly brought down a Presidency. Now we see them running drone operations in more nations that I can keep track of. 4? 5?...and that number changes. Now we hear it being considered at home too.


The problem though is this. We *DO* have an enemy. The Jihadists are real and they're pissed without signs of just letting bygones be bygones when we wrap things up and go home. We've been bombing them silly for over a decade and hunting up and down their streets across at least 2 nations (and I'd count more like 5 personally..but 2 main ones). Even for those who say 9/11 was 100% and purely a U.S. invention and inside operation ..even that extreme of looking at the events ...leaves a whole region we've been bombing the bejesus out of all these years.

We seem to think when our troops come home ..this is all over. Like Vietnam and the North Vietnamese. The difference is, the North Vietnamese were only ever AFTER South Vietnam. When they got it, there was nothing left to fight about except keeping everyone else out of it. The Jihadi fighters see the world as the battlefield with campaigns...not distinct wars. If they weren't our enemies in 2001, then EVERY casualty since has families and friends who are enemies now.

So how do we address an out of control Government without standing in a position of weakness to that very real enemy who either started the war or who we created by the wars since....depending on who one asks?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

You know, this assassination and torture business is getting entirely out of hand. There is another story running right now about Bin Laden's Son-in-Law who is mysteriously appearing in U.S. Custody in New York City in what sounds like a recent rendition from overseas.

Could it be he was secretly held in captive ( that part is verified )
until Brennan was assured a confirmation?

Very odd that he is brought to be tried in Civilan Court, while he is not a citizen of the
U.S. He should be held in military custody....this administration is full of insanity.

And one other thing...

I wonder how Obama would feel about his old pal Bill Ayers,
an unrepentant terrorist who bombed the Pentagon....having been
taken out with a hellfire missile....

You know...Ayers was a domestic terrorist.

I lol'ed...

Yeah and if it were Bush killing those "friends of friends" you'd be cheering him on for being so aggressive and talking about how liberals don't have the balls to take them on



Seriously, if you keep grasping there won't be any straws for the rest of us

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I hear what you are saying and I'm seeing the same radical out of control issues that you are. The Nanny state that Bloomberg is creating atop his personal 25 billion dollar fortune is one example and extreme to Obama carrying on and greatly expanding on Bush era programs of preemptive strike and warfare as a justified tactic.

9/11 was the tipping point, the marker in the sand that divides the old America and the new one. In the past, we have been able to identify our enemy, the Germans, the Koreans, the Nazis, the Japanese, the North Vietnamese, it started getting muddy around the time of Desert Storm but they had cause, Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait, it could be manipulated through lies propaganda and implied morality.

They don't even bother with that kind of thing anymore. Our government infiltrates, spy's on, creates and arms insurrections and manufactures economic crisis on half of the world from South America to the Far reaches of Eastern Europe. We have become invaders, conquerors, masters of the universe in our own minds. Our technological and military might has far exceeded our wisdom and the lessons we hard fought to learn in the short time our Country has been in existence. In a sense, we have become what we most hated in others only 73 years ago. We arm our enemies when it suites us and drone strike not only them but there families and innocents when it doesn't. A nation of greed, cowardice and hate.

That last statement is relative but ask yourself what you think the ratio is currently in this country when you compare these three qualities, greed, cowardice and hate against morality, courage, admiration in ones self and his fellow citizens that they occupy a just and forward progressing nation that is honoring the charter to which it was founded. I fear the numbers are not on the right side of the fence.

We seem to think when our troops come home ..this is all over. Like Vietnam and the North Vietnamese. The difference is, the North Vietnamese were only ever AFTER South Vietnam. When they got it, there was nothing left to fight about except keeping everyone else out of it. The Jihadi fighters see the world as the battlefield with campaigns...not distinct wars. If they weren't our enemies in 2001, then EVERY casualty since has families and friends who are enemies now.

They are angry with the American government, not the American people in my opinion. If things were to change politically in this country, perhaps there could be an understanding and reconciliation. That would be a best case scenario but if they are intent on killing Americans of whatever variety then once the republic is restored, that issue can be addressed pointedly on a case by case basis without the need for propaganda, loss of freedoms and rights and without fear mongering to the general public to further a selfish and self serving agenda. If force is warranted, I have no problem doling it out, violence is human nature, violence without lies and propaganda is alien when it comes to government.

So how do we address an out of control Government without standing in a position of weakness to that very real enemy who either started the war or who we created by the wars since....depending on who one asks?

No nation on Earth could ever hope to go to war with American people and win, even with a displaced government, the idea of invasion and occupation of this country with over 300 million guns in circulation and the amount of veterans, reserves and para military law enforcement that would be on the peoples side is absurd. The loss of life would be overwhelming and the rest of the world would not stand to watch it without intervention. We can not fully address our grievances with other countries, religions or ethnic peoples until we address our own Domestic problem right here and by doing so, I don't think anyone will think we are weak or vulnerable, how could they if we were successful in doing what most countries on Earth would all like to do.

Wow. I heard today that Obama was at least considering shutting down Guantanamo Bay's detention center, but I don't know if it is actually going to happen. But then a bomb like this gets dropped. I think it is possible that Obama is attempting to "play" the public, like any other politician does to stay popular. This way he will be able to say he is against indefinite detention, etc, which is crap considering things like this, where innocent people are killed for no reason. Or are killed because of someone they may not even know that well.

When did assassinations become acceptable is what I want to know. The main stream media was all over President Bush for doing such things. How is it President Obama just kills with impunity? The target killings are getting out of control. Afghanistan is one thing, the entire world is another. This is a slippery slope people, Rand Paul said it best this week.

Originally posted by MysterX
reply to post by whatsecret

 

Al-Qaeda links?

Wasn't the CIA involved with organising and supplying them in Syria and arming the Taliban in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion?

Doesn't look good for the CIA then does it.

Don't forget that the public was able to donate funds to the FSA...
I hope you weren't one of those people, or that you aren't a friend of a friend that donated!

Sup with Obama and his itchy trigger finger?

every other day someone new is on the target list.

insane I tell you, insane.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by whatsecret

 

It is just as Rand Paul said it on the floor of the Senate,
is there an endless amount of al Qaeda targets?

Apparently so, this is just but one more reason to expect that this
"war" will come home to America.

What, are they going to spend billions on drones, and run out of people to kill?

S&F

They will pass another bill to allow drone attacks in America. I think we are in the clear until they kill the rest of the world.

Here's a very detailed response from Holder to Rand Paul.


Atto rney General Eric Holder Responds to Rand Paul’s Question on Domestic Use of Drones Against US Citizens

Attorney General Eric Holder has sent the following response to Republican Senator Rand Paul’s question about when the president has the authority to use drones to target US citizens on American soil:

The Attorney General
Washington, D.C. March 7, 2013

The Honorable Rand Paul
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510


Dear Senator Paul:

It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: "Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?" The answer to that question is no.

Eric H. Holder, Jr.

I just want to know what is the difference between killing American citizens not involved in combat overseas and citizens not involved in combat on American soil?

Obama Considers Killing Friends of Friends of Al-Qaida

Al-Qaeda are friends of Saudis , and Saudis are friends of US.

So , Obama is planing to kill American people

Rather obvious the u.s was going to expand the kill list from the begining ... after the cold war america needed a new enemy ... killing is what america does best ... without "enemies" america wouldnt know what to do.. it was founded .. built .. and runs on blood ...

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I agree with the use of drones to kill individuals who are suspected terrorists who present a clear threat to national security.

BUT, and it’s a big BUT

There has to be more strict and transparent rules governing who is targeted and why the are targeted this practice of sending a hellfire missile up the butt of anyone who has ever met a Al-Qa’ida member is just ridiculous and counterproductive, so this could be a good thing if its done right. Drone strikes I think are needed but only in some very rare cases where there is no alternative.

I find it amazing that you even got starred for what you posted. You agree with drones killing suspects, not convicted, in other countries, that yours is not at war with? ITS ILLEGAL. No psuedo law your country legislates can make it legal, nor is it internationally legal. Its' murder.

And so far, most of those killed are children and families.

Civilians.

Always

I guess people are entitled to opinions. Some people want to kill the homeless, and cyanide pills for granny and gramps too. People have many opinions.

But the US administration needs to be sentenced in an International Court with teeth for its crimes against humanity.

reply to post by Unity_99

I find it amazing that you even got starred for what you posted.

I usually give a star to anyone who takes the time to reply to my threads. So just for the record, I do not agree with his opinion but he replied so he gets a star from me anyway.

There is a very big change in the concept of "law enforcement" behind drones, the Patriot Act, and things like too big to prosecute or too important politically to prosecute, and that change in thinking can be summed up as an increasing abandonment of traditional law enforcement.

The American government, particularly since the assassination of President Kennedy has repeatedly succeeded in sequestering certain criminal investigations in order to remove these investigations from being impacted by traditional methods and procedures, long established protocols in fact, for solving crimes and bringing suspects to trial.

This new deviation from normal investigative procedure has been done almost always under the rubric of national security. In reality, many are certain that the real purpose of excluding normal law enforcement procedures from these criminal investigations is to ensure that these crimes, in fact perpetrated by elements within the American government itself, are never solved by law enforcement.

We have seen evidence that President Obama is creating a parallel administrative apparatus for the United States, outside normal echelons and organizations of government, under the guise of "emergency management". Now, in the wake of attempts to introduce drones into American airspace and to broaden their use as instruments of sanction with extreme prejudice abroad, it is clear that President Obama is creating the technological equivalent of a gestapo for the 21st century.

Would Hitler have handled drones any differently, if he had had access to their use?

I find it amazing how the US engages and proposes to engage in activities that are unlawful internationally and here in the US as well as immoral and unethical. For those who will ask I mean the illegal wars, blowing up of wedding parties, torture, lying us into war and much more)
.
We never tortured and somehow the media and government got people to discuss "When it was okay to torture".

Now after blowing people up with drones (which I have always been against) they have the American People discussing when it is okay to blow up Americans on US soil.

It's not okay to blow up "suspected terrorists" or "Friends of suspected terrorists" with drones.

It's not okay to blow up Americans who are "suspected terrorists" or "Friends of suspected terrorists" with drones.


Why is this a conversation? Instead of the entire US standing up to government abuse (here or abroad) the government uses the media to make a national conversation out of something that should be abhorred.

Do people who support drone strikes not realize the number of normal citizens (men, women and children) randomly killed by these machines? Do they not care because they live in one of those terrorist countries or is it that as long as it is not their kids and family being blown up?

Wait till a drone blows up your wife/husband/daughter/son/dad/mother and then came back and post your conversations about how using Drones on US soil is okay.

I want to believe we are moving forward as a race and I hope we are, but I do not see any evidence of this.

reply to post by whatsecret


So let me get this streight..

Technically speaking, if I have a friend called Bob, who has a friend called Ted, who knows a guy called Osama...

I could be executed by the US millitary for my associaton, eventhough I have nothing to do with Osama, let alone know him..!?!