People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

Socialism like communist dicators use is surely evil.

I agree, real socialism has never been put into practice, never. Despots and assholes have used the guise of socialism to push their agenda but no country as ever made an honest go at it. Jesus was a socialist, no doubt. It is just a scaredy cat buzzword for small minded idiot fear mongers and frauds.

Originally posted by MissingRonnieR
Two words are incorrect. Brainwash and Evil. Socialism is simply a failure.

To the contrary, people have slowly been Brainwashed into believing we are a Democracy when in effect we have inch by inch become a Socialistic Country and it is in the eyes of the Marxist-Leninist-Rats it has not been a failure as they have planted their seeds in every nook and cranny of our country, and it is Evil because the Minions of Socialism Steal and Extort Money from people like me and worse, my money that I have earned, money that you may have earned is taken to murder innocent women and children on foreign shores and to do every sort of evil here within our own country.

You also don't know what you are talking about.

Up here in commie Canada we have been living with a form of "social democracy" for generations.

When the top 1% of the American population, the "devil take the hindmost" capitalists have finally grabbed every other American by the ankles and shaken their last nickel out of them, Americans might begin to see the light on social democracy.

It is the prevailing form of socioeconomic practice in the developed world.

Apologies if this has been posted already:

reply to post by Cabin


I totally agree. For the first 5 years of my life I grew up during the war in Bosnia until we moved to England and would often hear my parents talk about how good life was under Yugoslavian socialist order and the minute the USA/EU poked their noses in everything went downhill. This really got me wondering at an early age why Communism/Socialism was often linked with a negative stigma and obviously as I got older and researched more into the topic found out about America's ruthless clampdown on Communism in every possible sense and the lingering effect this has had on the opinion of your average news following patriotic joe.

Like you said, we haven't really seen a true socialist system, and the ones we often refer to as examples of failure such as Russia/China were basically just crime families running the country under the pretense of 'Socialism' when in fact their systems often incorporated heavy capitalist aspects as well. Nowadays people literally think still Communism means a dictatorship with all the people remaining at the same level with no chance to rise lol.

IMO things like basic services and supplies should definitely be nation owned and regulated in a way such that many economic hard ships can be avoided. Then a country can focus on automating it's core systems to produce ultimate efficiency - instead these services are left in an unregulated warzone for the big sharks to come in and out and change it as they like. If we all lived in nations that had dedicated it's cause for the people and profits were used for propelling our advancement (not into the pockets of individuals) as a human race I'm sure many of today's 'major' problems could be overcome easily. The problem is that we have a system with what seems like limited resources and limited funds - if we could only just eliminate the monopoly game currently happening on the grand scale and have governments freely dedicate unlimited funds to science and technology to improve human life we would be in a much advanced state in comparison. Right now we live in a complete supply and demand way of life and the problem with that sometimes is that our demands can be easily manipulated (which is what is happening) and hence we limit/slow down our progression as a race due to the monetary interests of a few

That being said a true socialist state of freedom seems unlikely in this current timeline we are on, because ultimately regardless of the systems name or methodology the success it's down to the people running it. There's such a strong high/low class divide and so much money and power involved at the higher levels (for example we could handle the energy problem easily but the concentration is on expending fossil fuels to charge high on electricity prices and milk it for as long as possible - Tesla made many suppressed 'free' electricity inventions, but its not about that its about profit for privatized energy services) that we become just 'cattle' in these people's eyes - which of cause the wrong way to be a good human leader from the very start.

I realize I am probably wasting effort in trying to share a genius and perspective that goes beyond anything from anyone out there. If you do not watch and listen to this in its entirety, you have only yourselves to blame for the night that approaches and will engulf you....not me and mine, you and yours.

reply to post by Cabin


Socialism might be great if we could trust the criminals in our corrupt political system to spend one dime of our tax money wisely (or legally).

Capitalism could also be great if we could accept that it's a system based on competition. Therefore, there will be winners and losers. If we could accept that the losers are just as important to the health of our economic system as the winners, then perhaps we would make EDUCATION the top priority in this country. The more the losers are able to compete, the stronger the economy.

But, unfortunately, many short-sighted "socialist" voters have been convinced that throwing money and services at the losers is a good idea by our corrupt political leaders who just want to keep the populace dumbed-down and in a permanent cycle of socioeconomic and educational despair.

Both systems could be great...if the participants weren't so dumbed-down.

The problem in socialism is it begets
in productive workers a sense of
complacency and low motivation.

capitalism has its ups and downs, only when things are bad do you hear everyone complaining. what we have now is getting out of control, i wonder if we are experiencing a capitalist bubble? america was very lucky in the fact that we took this land from the natives by force, we used slave labor to jump start our economy, and we happened to profit extremely from world war 2. now the income disparity has gotten so wide that we are really starting to open our eyes. supposedly our economy is getting better, but i'm not so sure how much better it could get for the average joe when the corporations keep hoarding the wealth and shipping more and more jobs overseas. on the other hand our government has been so fiscally irresponsible with our money its disgusting. the rich and middle class want to blame it on the poor and those on welfare, but how many people would be poor and on welfare had the corporations not shipped so many of our jobs away?

Socialism / communism is "evil" through agency of the fact that human beings have a high propensity to be evil themselves. That is, power cannot be entrusted to a centralised arm when that arm consists of human beings.

Find some benevolent alien to whom concepts of greed and selfishness are foreign, and you might just have the first socialist dictatorship that could have the potential to work!

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried."
-Winston Churchill

We can say the same thing. You have been brainwashed to believe that Socialism is not evil.

Socialism has FAILED everywhere it has been tried. Show me one country that has tried Socialism and it is doing better today then when some dictator took that country into socialism? You can't because there isn't one.

So what makes you think your Hope and Change President can make it work when he has never ran a business, he refuses to produce records that would let everyone know if he actually has the ability to hold office.

As for me, I can tell you, he is worthless. Like dung on the bottom of my shoe. It stinks and is hard to get rid of.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


Don't fall for troll. What is the point?
You should be aware by now...

reply to post by Cabin


I did not read the thread so this may have been pointed out already. But it deserves to be heard again if it has. The problem with Socialism is that is needs to be coerced in some fashion because it goes against human nature. Humans have an inherent desire to keep the fruits of their labors and use them as they please.

If socialism is so wonderful then why don't all the little advocates trying to convince us of how wonderful it is start their own little voluntary socialist enclave and show us how it is done? Simple they cannot get enough people to voluntarily do it. There are some voluntary socialist enclaves like the Amish and the Jewish Kibbutz etc. but there is still coercion involved to make it functional and that is religious coercion that its what God wants them to do. So there are really no socialist societies without some form of coercion.

On a larger scale socialism has never functioned without coercion from government at the point of gun as is obvious from Stalin to Hitler Mao and Castro et. al.

The Socialist dupes opine about how that wasn't real socialism and nobody has done it right etc. Yeah ok show us then; build it and they will come! Do it on a small scale and show us the right way and then you might get some credibility. Until then you are just enemies of freedom vying for your own brand of socialism enforced at the point of a gun just like Stalin and the rest of them!

Any form of government imposed at the point of a gun is evil not just Socialism. The most successful form of governments have been those that allowed the most freedom. Yet they still all have succumbed to theft coercion and murder to remain in power all in the name of keeping peace and freedom law and order. All the socialist want to do is replace one form of false authority for another. No thanks I'll stick with the devil I know and work toward freedom rather then switch tyrants and jump out of the frying pan and into the fire!

Voluntarysim is the the only true form of freedom and it does not involve government or state at all.

lilarajiva.wordpress.com...

reply to post by lovizall


I know, I just can't help myself.

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Socialism like communist dicators use is surely evil.

I agree and would like to add:

Capitalism like democratic dictators use is surely evil.

The monetary system only benefits a minority.

One problem with Socialism is how it gets paid for.

When its paid from income, as in an income tax, then problems arise.
Because forcibly taking money from one person to help another bothers a lot of people.
Not only that, but taking money from someone income is basically a slippery slope into slavery.

Social programs should be financed by the wealth of the country.
Taxes levied on imports, etc. Then you will find a lot more people open to social programs.
As a matter of fact, if people's income are not taxed, many will use their money, or their time, to help others socially.

A social society has to be social at heart for it work, it cant be forced.

Originally posted by robhines

Hahah, Mussolini and Hitler were clearly fascist! You're proving my point about corrupt leaders pretending to be socialist when they're actually fascist. Mussolini and Hitler didn't apply real socialism. How could they have when they're so clearly known for the fascist things they did?
....

Haha another one who thinks fascism is not socialism... i even exceprted a very leftwing and biased source, wikipedia, and people like you STILL can't admit the truth simply because you don't want to...

As for me thinking that all socialists/communists, and yes a large mayority if not all leftwingers in general want to FORCE their opinions and beliefs?... We can see it with the calls for banning firearms, or heavily restrict them... We can see it with the claims that it is the right of every woman who wants an abortion and contraceptives by forcing people to pay for them. How many leftwingers back the Obamacare, even in this website when you all have been shown that it FORCES people to pay for something millions see as murder?...

But hey, keep denying, denying, denying, like that's something new...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

So… Explain why Hitler put socialists and communists into camps… You are just rewriting history and this is creepy.An explanation here

reply to post by robhines


You and others like you can continue TRYING to claim that those systems are not socialist, when in fact they are, all you want... All you are doing is demonstrating your inability to learn from experience as well as your inability to admit when you are wrong...

Socialism is nothing but the biggest oxymoron ever invented by humans...

The claims of "true socialism" are just that, CLAIMS...reality is a different issue... Again, you CAN'T have 30 millions -350 million people own and have a say on how infraestructure should work, or be used, IT DOENS'T WORK... The arguing would never stop, just like you, and other leftwingers/socialists like you keep arguing "but those systems are not socialist" when in fact they are...

Not to mention that under socialism THERE IS NO PRIVATE PROPERTY, so how can the people "OWN" the infraestructure when one of the main premises of socialism is the abolition of PRIVATE PROPERTY including that won by labor?...

But then again, the socialists try to murk the facts about socialism more by making more assinine claims, as for example, directly from a "socialist" website...

Myth #1: Socialists want to take away your property

This myth confuses private property with personal property. When socialists talk about the abolition of private property, they are referring to the socialization of the means of production—the resources and equipment that create wealth. Working people do not own this type of property—which is why we have to work to survive.

Right now, the wealth of the 1,000 billionaires is equal to that of the 3.5 billion poorest people on the planet. In order to provide everyone with more, that wealth must be commonly owned, and not the property of those few capitalists.
...

www.pslweb.org...

But then again wealth and private property are linked... There are plenty of people who are wealthier than others because of the PRIVATE PROPERTY/PROPERTIES they have...

If you are going to "make wealth commonly owned" THERE CAN'T BE ANY FORM OF PRIVATE PROPERTY...

PERSONAL PROPERTY IS PRIVATE PROPERTY... Yet socialists try to make it sound like they are different...

This is one of the MANY lies, and deceipt used by socialists, and unfortuantely a lot of people have been so dumbed down that they believe these lies and deceipt even when they are staring them in the face...

Originally posted by jeanne75018
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

So… Explain why Hitler put socialists and communists into camps… You are just rewriting history and this is creepy.An explanation here

So explain to me why Stalin was not only against Lenin's and Trotsky's view of international socialism/communism, but he even ordered the death of other socialists/communists such as Trotsky?...

The following comes DIRECTLY FROM A MARXIST WEBSITE...

Leon Trotsky

Stalin Seeks My Death

...
Stalin’s “Mistake”

To the uninitiated it may seem incomprehensible that Stalin’s clique should have first exiled me and then should attempt to kill me abroad. Wouldn’t it have been simpler to have shot me in Moscow as were so many others?

The explanation is this: In 1928 when I was expelled from the party and exiled to Central Asia it was still impossible even to talk not only about shooting but arrest. The generation together with whom I went through the October revolution and the Civil War was then still alive. The political Bureau felt itself besieged from all sides. From Central Asia I was able to maintain direct contact with the opposition. In these conditions Stalin, after vacillating for one year, decided to resort to exile abroad as the lesser evil. He reasoned that Trotsky, isolated from the USSR, deprived of an apparatus and of material resources, would be powerless to undertake anything. Moreover, Stalin calculated that after he had succeeded in completely blackening me in the eyes of the country, he could without difficulty obtain from the friendly Turkish government my return to Moscow for the final reckoning. Events have shown, however, that it is possible to participate in political life without possessing either an apparatus or material resources. With the aid of young friends I laid the foundations. of the Fourth International which is forging ahead slowly but stubbornly. The Moscow trials of 1936-1937 were staged in order to obtain my deportation from Norway, i.e., actually to hand me over into the hands of the GPU. But this did not succeed. [arrived in Mexico. I am informed that Stalin has several times admitted that my exile abroad was a “major mistake.” No other way remained of rectifying the mistake except through a terrorist act.]
...

www.marxists.org...


Prominent socialists/communists have ALWAYS sought to do away with other prominent socialists/communists who had different ideas of what form of socialism/communim should exist because they present a danger to each other.

The castro brothers did the same thing, heck, Russia and China were not friends either in case you have forgotten even when both were socialist/communist countries...

The first thing that castro did after taking power was to orchestrate "revolutionary trials" and executed MANY socialists...

The only time when socialists/communists in power who have different views on socialism/communism unite is when they have a common enemy or threat. Once that common enemy or threat ahs been dealt with they go back to stabbing each other in the back and even to openly wage war with each other...and you can take that fact to the bank.