Honest question about god!

Originally posted by marg6043
The answer of your questions is very simple those belief's are human.

I respect your opinion but does this really answer anything its more of a cop out answer isnt it.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
You're wrong on all accounts You are in here writing in full support of what you have been told in The Bible about free will and Jesus, because that is what the book states, yet you now imply that The Bible has not told you why God created man. Have you read the scriptures?

MAN I'm fixing to get it cause we have been at each other over this before but this time I wish to be on the offensive.........prove your point.

The Word of God , which says we are given free will in order that we may choose the right path , he will not choose it for us.
He wants freely given love not slavery or robots to do his will.

Against your point , and please show evidence on both..........tangible and researchable biblical fact against the facts you learned and the research that taught it....


This is fair isnt it. Otherwise it's your opinion, which is not enough to accuse someone of lacking in their faith and teachings.

[edit on 2/11/2004 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by drbryankkruta

Originally posted by marg6043
The answer of your questions is very simple those belief's are human.

I respect your opinion but does this really answer anything its more of a cop out answer isnt it.

Well unless you have seen God or Jesus in person or they have come to you in person then you can say is a divinity involved, is comun sense humans has inhabited the earth so everything in this earth our believes and everything we have that involved humans is all made with the human mind and imagination.

Remember we have given "god" human charasteristics only us has done that why? so we can make sense of our lives and our existance.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well unless you have seen God or Jesus in person or they have come to you in person then you can say is a divinity involved, is comun sense humans has inhabited the earth so everything in this earth our believes and everything we have that involved humans is all made with the human mind and imagination.

Remember we have given "god" human charasteristics only us has done that why? so we can make sense of our lives and our existance.

But visual sightings have been made by men of Jesus and we have there dictation of the events,,,,,,,But faiths key meaning in the face of any application is belief without seeing ,,,,,science even uses faith ,,,,,for that manor wickas,satanists,buddist, etc all share a basic commonality....belief and faith with out sight..........Test not ye your God, is one of the laws of God where in you are told to demand proof thru feats or apperances is not right and isn't consistance with tru faith and love for God.

As for the physical characteristics God told us only we where made in his image.....but we are not to covet those things of the earth IE the body, which is only a vessel. So God has not told us what he looks like, however Jesus was seen and his structure on earth has been passed to us although with some distortion.

[edit on 3/11/2004 by drbryankkruta]

[edit on 3/11/2004 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by drbryankkrutaMAN I'm fixing to get it cause we have been at each other over this before but this time I wish to be on the offensive.........prove your point.

First, if you and I "have been at each other" before, then either my memory is failing me, or you have been addressing me under a different pseudonym. Now, my point has been proven, time and time again, and that point was that Christians read into the Bible whatever they choose as it suits their definition or purpose. You have only to look back on this thread to understand that. Moreover, you may find it in your statement here:

The Word of God , which says we are given free will in order that we may choose the right path , he will not choose it for us.

Is not correct. God said nothing about giving you "freewill" God commanded you to obey his laws and told you what the result would be if you don't. You may take that as free will if you wish, but nowhere does he expressly give you that right. Furthermore, and considering the talk of Jesus being the substitute for the sacrifice, it might interest you to note that the references to "freewill" in the OT are in regard to willingly offering up burnt sacrifices. There is a certain bizarre twist to that theme in the NT, if you take the time to seriously think about it.

He wants freely given love not slavery or robots to do his will.

That, once again is what you and others wish to believe, it does not address the more ethereal question as to why. The Bible saying so is not proof of that, or the questions previously raised. The point that soteriological precepts misses is that just because you are told to have faith and faith only denies the ability to exercise free will, and it does nothing to incite you to ask whether or not you are being told the truth, or understand the why. God is the almighty, with that you do not disagree, yet when it comes to rationalizing why God would require creating a life form to be wholly subservient to him you become lost in a muddle of words.

Against your point , and please show evidence on both..........tangible and researchable biblical fact against the facts you learned and the research that taught it....

What facts are they? I have mentioned many, and I do not rely on baseless, wishful renderings to do so. I can for example tell you that you will be waiting for eternity itself to end for the rapture to come, in that the book of Revelations was a several hundred later knockoff of Daniel, and that the Book of Daniel directly related to past events not future, by providing a far better argument for that than yours for it relating to the future will be, since yours is only that The Bible said these things will happen and they haven't yet.

This is fair isnt it. Otherwise it's your opinion, which is not enough to accuse someone of lacking in their faith and teachings.

What isn't fair about it? I have no idea what you are on about here. I do not accuse anyone of lacking in their faith, because I fully understand that those who portray to have faith, when they argue that the Bible says rather than from their hearts, they truly have none, and that is when I challenge their teachings, because it becomes obvious that their either have none, or are too closed minded to seek an all encompassing knowledge of same. And to understand just what that closed mindedness is to which I refer, I leave you with these;

"I, even I, am the Lord and beside me there is no saviour."

"I am the first, and I am the last: and beside me there is no God."

"Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a saviour, Jesus;"

cmon guys we all know its about unconditionnal love and compassion

The greatest gift you can give is your own life to save another persons life. If you have a pure heart and have unconditional love for others then you would not hesitate to save the ones you love by forfeiting your own.

Jesus forfeited his life for ours in hope that we would learn from it what love truly is and how much he loves us.

LadyV Some day you will stand in front of him and you will have a choice, I pray you do not deny him.

Dieing for someone elses sins, ill try and give some examples.

A drugdealer murdered rapist in the street getting beaten up i nthe street for one of those reason, you know nothing about him and try and help out and die in the process.

Or someone you know murders someone and you get accused and dont grass em up,

Originally posted by marg6043

Well unless you have seen God or Jesus in person or they have come to you in person then you can say is a divinity involved, is comun sense humans has inhabited the earth so everything in this earth our believes and everything we have that involved humans is all made with the human mind and imagination.

Remember we have given "god" human charasteristics only us has done that why? so we can make sense of our lives and our existance.

C'mon marg. Think about what you typed, is that really a good way of thinking? Is reality and what is real restricted to what we can see? Do our eyes dictate reality? Don't you think that our world and existence has more elements, more facets, more angles, more meaning to it than what one part of our body can perceive? What would a blind person say if they heard you say that?

Actually, you probably meant if somone has experienced God in any of the 5 senses. Even still, do you think our world is so tightly packed in a box? That because you can't detect something with any of those senses, that it's impossible for it to be? "Have you been to Antarctica? How do you know it's real? Unless you have been there in person, I don't know why I should believe you." Is that truly a good way of looking at the world? You may say that you've seen pictures or video of it. But are these not simply accounts of people that have passed their discovery on to others who did not have the benefit of being there at that time, just like the Bible is an account?

And you say everything of this world is created and comes from our imagination. You say it is our imagination that gave God human characteristics. Well then, did we imagine ourselves into existence, along with the earth and all of the universe? If you want to talk about our human characteristics, what or WHO gave US these characteristics to begin with, that we may fantasize about a God, which is what you believe. Where did our minds and very essence come from?

I find it funny how those who don't believe in God, use as a main argument that it is because they have not experienced Him by sight, sound, touch taste, or smell. But many of these people believe in other things like ESP and telepathic abilities. Yet, do these things involve any of those senses? No. I, as one who has experienced God, know that it is possible to know Him through a sixth sense, one more related to the soul. It's kind of a feeling, but not in the strict sense like all other feelings, and it's kind of a knowledge, but again, not in the strict sense. It is simply another sense we have, but that only some choose to use. And so if one can believe in a sixth sense like ESP, why is it not justifiable to say that God exists based on a sixth sense that I have, and that countless people have.

To know God, and to truly come to believe He exists, you cannot turn to science to prove it, because science is a great tool to advance us in matters of the physicality of this world and universe, but since God is beyond, science is simply not, by default, going to be effective detecting Him. It's like taking a saw and trying to pound a nail in some wood with it. It won't work, so you must turn to a different tool, the hammer, to satisfy the job. Likewise, science is like the saw, and just isn't able to apply itself to the subject of God. Does this mean that another tool, like the hammer isn't good or acceptable? I hope not. Faith is the hammer, the other tool for the job. Faith, and that sort of sixth sense ability. A saw will saw, and a hammer will hammer. Both useful tools, as long they are applied correctly and not forced into a job which they cannot perform. This is not to say science can't POINT to, or elude to God's existence, but scientific PROOF, like a fingernail clipping that God left behind, you will not find. And faith does not discredit science, at least if it is used properly.

Marg, I'm not trying to be mean or belittle you. I want to challenge you to go beyond what you may be using currently to determine what is real. You have more tools at your disposal than you are choosing to use. I hope what I wrote makes sense to you, and that you at least consider it. Thanks.

Originally posted by bigdanprice
I posted this in another post but think its relevant here.
How do Christians reconcile factual contradictions in the bible there are many: Contradictions in the Bible Check out this website to read the full list...

Here are a select few:

MT 28:2 An angel arrived during an earthquake, rolled back the stone, then sat on it (outside the tomb).
MK 16:5 No earthquake, only one young man sitting inside the tomb.
LK 24:2-4 No earthquake. Two men suddenly appear standing inside the tomb.
JN 20:12 No earthquake. Two angels are sitting inside the tomb.

MT 28:8 The visitors ran to tell the disciples.
MK 16:8 They said nothing to anyone.
LK 24:9 They told the eleven and all the rest.
JN 20:10-11 The disciples returned home. Mary remained outside, weeping.

MT 28:8-9 Jesus' first Resurrection appearance was fairly near the tomb.
LK 24:13-15 It was in the vicinity of Emmaus (seven miles from Jerusalem).
JN 20:13-14 It was right at the tomb.

MT 28:9 On his first appearance to them, Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and the other Mary hold him by his feet.
JN 20:17 On his first appearance to Mary, Jesus forbids her to touch him since he has not yet ascended to the Father.
JN 20:27 A week later, although he has not yet ascended to the Father, Jesus tells Thomas to touch him.

MT 28:7-10, MT 28:16 Although some doubted, the initial reaction of those that heard the story was one of belief since they followed the revealed instructions.
MK 16:11, LK 24:11 The initial reaction was one of disbelief. All doubted.

MT 28:1-18 The order of Resurrection appearances was: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, then the eleven.
MK 16:9-14 It was Mary Magdalene, then two others, then the eleven.
LK 24:15-36 It was two, then Simon (Peter?), then the eleven.
JN 20:14 - 21:1 It was Mary Magdalene, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas, then the eleven disciples again.
1CO 15:5-8 It was Cephas (Peter?), then the "twelve" (which twelve, Judas was dead?), then 500+ brethren (although AC 1:15 says there were only about 120), then James, then all the Apostles, then Paul.

The list goes on, and this is in the four approved versions of the gospels, WE haven't even touched on the other eighty versions that were disregarded for no other reason than they told a version of the truth that didnt fit in with the political realities of the day.

Hey buddy wanna get real confused, that is, if you can't figure out the reasons behind the differences in the texts.
Read the Gospel According to St. Thomas
www.gospelthomas.com...
That should hurt your brain nice and good