The Problem with Hell (and Heaven): Its Existence.

reply to post by backcase

Well actually, I think that those Christians may just get sick of arguing, pass the point of needing concrete evidence of either, or they become lukewarm Christians who believe that they somehow manage to do enough to be saved. Otherwise they would just ignore the argument because they have heard it far too many times, they understand the truth of it, and from experience that these people are just looking for an outlet to voice their own opinion without the intention of even considering anyone else's thought.

know what I'm saying, or am I raving?

Faith doesn't need physical "proof". That's why it's faith, and not proof.

However, your points have their validity.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by inwardspiral

 

No the Middle East is not the only place God works . But you can not by consensus take over Gods will . It is not up to a vote . God does not move from his position on right and wrong or what is an abomination to him . You are the creation not the creator .

I have a teeny-tiny insignificant idealogical problem with this statement. You must know God to anticipate its movements, you must intimately know IT to second guess its arguements regarding WILL and or what its interpretation of "abomination" is; do you have insight as to its next mind bending/altering carnival style moves. Can you clue me in as to where this information is coming from because I have A NEED TO ASK FOR SOME ADVICE (its entirely personal) and I am desperate.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


I'm not sure what you are hunting from this conversation . The question I was answering was what about people before Jesus . The answer was that your rightousness to God saved you before Jesus or the Law and the second part was God wasn't confined to Israel . My statement that you could not negotiate or form a consensous as to what is right or wrong or an abomination to God . An abomination is something that is disgusting to God .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I'm not sure what you are hunting from this conversation . The question I was answering was what about people before Jesus . The answer was that your rightousness to God saved you before Jesus or the Law and the second part was God wasn't confined to Israel . My statement that you could not negotiate or form a consensous as to what is right or wrong or an abomination to God . An abomination is something that is disgusting to God .

What exsisted before Jesus that were the methods of worship? Paganism; no monotheistic God form. Egypt tried it and it was rejected as it was a RA form Patriarchal, not equally Matriarchal.

There is no right or wrong that is a false precept. The energy forms (chaotic) created over this tangled never ending arguement over rightousness, evil, is that it is consumed as an energy form. Yin yang energy is balanced therein lies its beauty and is not consumable (one bad idea form nulifies the other good idea form in perfect balance ). Eastern cultures laugh at the Western because they have no clue regarding these things. Buddists do not pray for the return of Siddhartha. I owe NO THING to God or Jesus. The law is flawed. The only true law is that of the Essenes, the Freemasons (they know the truth regarding human creationism). Example of an abomination truism: The Holy Grail is not a chalice, it is a direct blood line connection to the Sumerians, skip backward to the era 500,000yrs BC, Anu and his Sons Enki and Enlil.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


You didn't get the answer you wanted did you? The question you wanted answered deals with a certain thing you hoped to expound on . Go try someone else . I got your Ying Yang . And your last dissertation was an incoherant dribble to me and most likely to you too! I

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

You didn't get the answer you wanted did you? The question you wanted answered deals with a certain thing you hoped to expound on . Go try someone else . I got your Ying Yang . And your last dissertation was an incoherant dribble to me and most likely to you too! I

I failed to hear an answer I suppose because I failed to postulate a/the question.

Sooooo....no one is able to find holes in my first post in this thread where I proved the physical existence of God's supernatural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah my fire, the same fire that will be used at the final judgement. And no one is able to show holes in the logic I presented for Heaven as well.

Sorry skeptics....FAILED THREAD

A good idea would be to seriously look into the information I presented to learn some Truth.....

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Gee I don't know. Maybe because that's terrible proof.

You can't prove that's not just a historical account of a vulcanic erruption. So the Bible contains something within it accurate to Earth history. So?? How the hell does that give proof to God authoring the Bible? Not critical thinking. It's nonsequitar.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
Sooooo....no one is able to find holes in my first post in this thread where I proved the physical existence of God's supernatural destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah my fire, the same fire that will be used at the final judgement. And no one is able to show holes in the logic I presented for Heaven as well.

Sorry skeptics....FAILED THREAD

A good idea would be to seriously look into the information I presented to learn some Truth.....

I don't see any logic in what you presented. You look at those things like the ancient aliens show, but instead of saying "aliens did it", you say "god did it".

About the sulfur, it could have been a volcanic eruption or a meteorites shower(assuming the discovery is true, and assuming the information you provided about sulfur purity is true). And you know well how people are prompt to scream "it's god punishment" when a disaster occurs(epidemic for example).

About your heaven "proofs", I can show you more testimonies of people who have seen extraterrestrial beings, who have been abducted, or who regularly talk with them. Also the same for bigfoot, for the yeti, or nessie, or ghosts, or people who claim to be "official" prophets, or ....

About the longevity, again assuming what you claim is true, do you really want to prove something as huge and important as the existence of a heaven and hell, which defines our very purpose and defines almost everything else in the universe, just because some group of mammals lives 8 years longer than others ?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


If it what I think it is , I don't want to answer that .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

If it what I think it is , I don't want to answer that .

Enlighten me.

Proverbs 12.1.2
To learn, you must want to be taught. To refuse reproof is stupid. The lord blesses good men and condems the wicked.

reply to post by gosseyn

I don't see any logic in what you presented. You look at those things like the ancient aliens show, but instead of saying "aliens did it", you say "god did it".

The information is chiefly from two books where massive investigation was done:
- Alien Intrustion by Gary Bates
- Final Events by Nick Redfern

Nick Redfern's book gets into the history of UFO occurrences associated with people (generally involved in high level witchcraft) performing the Babalon sexual magic ritual and interview intensively people in a group in the CIA who investigated the UFO issues for several decades and came to the conclusion they are demonic.

My opinion is not based on some T.V show, it is based on hundreds of testimonies of victims who have unmasked the "aliens" part way through an abduction experience by calling on the name of Jesus to stop it. It is the opinion of muliple US intelligence agencies and other intel agencies around the world.

Too bad if it doesn't fit in with your paradigm of the world...I would suggest you research these things with a more open mind next.

About the sulfur, it could have been a volcanic eruption or a meteorites shower

I have already told you that the sulfur fell only on the cities and nowhere else, the sulfur was 30 times purer (30 times less impurities) than anything found naturally including volcanoes or whatever (it was also in a form that volcanoes don't produce it in, monotonic sulfur) .

And you know well how people are prompt to scream "it's god punishment" when a disaster occurs

The Bible says that God was going to destroy those cities, those cities were destroyed how God said he would destroy then (turning the limestone building into a calcium sulfate ash) and consuming the people away with molten sulfur (which is what brimstone is)

About your heaven "proofs", I can show you more testimonies of people who have seen extraterrestrial beings, who have been abducted, or who regularly talk with them.

And I could go to the same people and asked if you have called on the name of Jesus to stop the CE4 experience and they will say no. I could go to the ones who regularly talk to them, have them have an exorcism and the experience of them talking to aliens will stop. Those who have be abducted and have seen where they have supposedly been taken has always been down into the Earth (although the fallen angels have the ability to give people dreams or visions so it is debatable whether any physical craft are real as well).

I believe nessie is real (but just a dinosaur...considering that the global flood, another act of God, which I can prove as well was only some 4000 odd years ago and young dinos (aka dragons) were taken on the ark as well...such creatures are still found in places like the swamps of the Congo jungle even today).

Ghosts are not dead people though, they are just the fallen angels again (they have been here since the beginning of our time, know all that we do and our experience and can shape-shift into any appearance). An ex-Satanist reveals this after his experiences supposedly contacting the dead and being from a high level secret society. Give people exorcisms who supposedly see ghosts or get them to call on the name of Jesus


Don't know what the yeti/bigfoot are..have not looked into those things before.

again assuming what you claim is true, do you really want to prove something as huge and important as the existence of a heaven and hell, which defines our very purpose and defines almost everything else in the universe, just because some group of mammals lives 8 years longer than others

The person who received the visions picked out the beneficial health practices and advocated no detrimental practices (this at a time when smoking was prescribed for bronchitis or people were cut and bleed to rid them of other diseases.

Not only this, the diet she advocated, based strongly on the diet given in the garden of eden and what the prophet Daniel advocated just happens to make its Christian adherents basically the healthiest group in whatever country that they live.

Not only that we have visions of Heaven from John in Revelation that are no contradiction to White's and his visions on the beast of the sea (Rev. 13)/ whore of Babylon is fulfilled historically by the Vatican/Papal system. No contractions in any descriptor given.

When you combine those probabilities of chance occurrence you are looking at a minuscule chance these things aren't as the Bible says they are.

When you combine this with the knowledge of the evidence that points to the universe being supernaturally created showing the holes and anomalies in naturally occurring supposed cosmic, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological evolutionary theories then it become much easier to see how this is a more than sensible position (also arguments of logic on in-built morality that can not be sufficiently explained by the naturalistic model, and the absolute precision of the physical laws of the universe that make life possible).

P.S I believe in advanced civilizations from other planets in the universe...but according to the purpose of Earth's creation and the spiritual test going on here these beings aren't allowed to come here (due to the sin problem) or influence the outcome of the test. All those beings people will be able to meet as a reward in Heaven. At the moment the ETs people are communicating with are fallen angels.

On tonight, live from 10PM Eastern time!

Show thread with listening information

There have been some strong opinions expressed in this thread. It would make a good time better if you called in to tonight's Reality Remix show and took some time to explain your thoughts.

Check adjensen's link above. I can't think of any ATSer who regretted getting involved like that.