Big news in the search for Dark Matter may be coming in just two weeks.

I'm excited.
This could be very big.

Two weeks is when the first paper results from the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer, a particle collector mounted on the outside of the International Space Station, will be submitted to a scientific journal, says MIT physicist Samuel Tig, AMS principle investigator. Ting did not reveal exactly what the experiment has found, but did note that the results bear on the mystery of dark matter. Dark matter is the invisible stuff that is thought to outnumber regular matter in the universe by a factor of about six to one.
Ting teased: "It will not be a minor paper."
Ting said that the scientists rewrote the paper 30 times before they were satisfied with it, and said that it represents a "small step" in figuring out what dark matter is, and perhaps is not the final answer.

I know we shouldn't get too worked up about it just yet.
I am sure I'm not the only one who has been disappointed before by hints of big news turning out to be a bunch of hot air.

But I will definitely be keeping my earballs peeled for the release of this paper.

Ting says he has used some 8 million particle events to map the excess across an energy spectrum from 0.5 gigaelectronvolts to 350 gigaelectronvolts, and that he plans to report it in a paper to be sent to a high energy physics journal in a couple of weeks.

Based on their claims, they appear to have their "I"s dotted and "T"s crossed, so I'm hoping for the best.

What do you think ATS?
Finally some meat and potatoes, or just more hot air?

Sources
Has dark matter finally been found? Big news coming
Dark matter search from the space station continues to tease
Big news in the search for Dark Matter may be coming in just two weeks.

reply to post by watchitburn


Let's hope they have found dark matter.

A cynic could point out that dark matter was only invented to explain away the fact most of the universe, according to current physics, is missing.

It could be that dark matter, which has never been seen, observed or detected, does indeed make up most of the universe. Or perhaps it is current physics that is missing something.

Only time will tell.

S+F. Let's hope they have found something.

reply to post by ollncasino


I'll take just about anything at this point.
As long as it's something we can put a finger on, or at least point us in the right direction.
Something that's actionable.

I'm not a fan of spooky words used to fill in blank spots.
Hopefully it will be something completely unexpected.

DARK MATTER MAY TURN OUT TO B E SIMPLY THE SAME AS OUR MATTER, JUST RESIDES IN ANOTHER DIMENSION
PERSONALLY, IM THINKING THEIR HEADS ARE WAY UP THEIR COLLECTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO THE DARK MATTER THEORY....

Word is they have seen an excess that 'could' correspond to a low mass wimp in the 5-10 GeV/c^2 range.

Well since many people like to come out and say 'they' and by 'they' in this case i sort of represent that area of particle physics at least from an experimentalist perspective... please offer a better theory? I have seen many a theory offered but nothing more solid than an idea written with as many flashy buzzwords as possible and none of the mathematical frameworks that give it credence... People can 'say' anything they like, but there is a big difference between a good idea and an idea that can fit the observables.

My point is this...

There is *almost* no difference in these two statements
"Dark matter is a high mass particle that interacts only via the weak nuclear force and gravitationally"

"Dark matter is just normal matter but in a different dimension"

why? well because right now, we dont know what it is, we have a better chance of proving experimentally if it is the first one, than the last one... why? well 'extra' dimensions required are also not known to exist, but weakly interacting particles are... so what do we do? Both provide a possible explanation, the one that fits a bit better to everything we observe... is perhaps the top one... because there are more observables and less assumptions

Originally posted by ErosA433
My point is this...

There is *almost* no difference in these two statements
"Dark matter is a high mass particle that interacts only via the weak nuclear force and gravitationally"

"Dark matter is just normal matter but in a different dimension"

Seems as though there's a pretty big difference to me. #2 says dark matter has similar masses and interactions in its own space as hadrons and leptons and electromagnetism, and there's only a shared gravitational interaction.

That's a different theory than a stable particle 5 to 10 times a proton mass. Why aren't they at the center of the Sun or Earth or just about anywhere?

You didnt quite get my point, I meant on the grand scheme of things they are the same for the following reasons

Theory 1 - Cold Dark matter being WIMPs - Can explain the structures we see, can explain the galactic rotation curves that we see, can explain large scale lensing effects that we see. Some models in particle physics predicts the possibility of a high mass particle that is stable and weakly interacting.

Drawback - Next to impossible to detect
Common criticisms "You guys are making this up as you go along, its too complicated to explain this"
Particle physics? huh whats that got to do with anything those guys are talking out of their asses. I will ignore the fact that the Standard Model is the development of our theory of all particle interactions developed over 40-50 years oh and can predict many many many many observables and get them right... Oh it possibly predicts a possible dark matter candidate,,, haha that has no basis at all. *sarcasm*

Theory 2 - Dark matter is some kind of reflection of an alternate universe held in a different dimension.
Drawback - While beautifully elegant, can it be proven? Well best of my knowledge, no, why? well rotation curves if it is just regular matter in an extra dimension, it has to be dispersed differently. For it to be dispersed differently and for it to still be 'normal' matter then in that other dimension physical forces have to be different. SOoooo you just invented a whole other universe and physics, that has less chance than theory 1 to be probed directly.

The point being.... unless we can prove any of it, then both theories are simply words on a page. We have more chance of proving one of them to be true, or not... so why not go for that one??? Why do people have to have a constant criticism of scientists who are at least trying to answer these questions?



If you think that you should just accept the extra dimensions model, then well done, you just accepted something with very very very low physical evidence, cannot be proven directly and essensially is a nice way of glossing over a subject.

I dont mean to say that WIMPS are the only possibility, absolutely not, there are others, but right now, this fits our theories better than most else, so why is it a bad thing to pursue the theory? Pursue the model, spend a small amount of money to advance knowledge, develop detector technology, possibly develop some nice technology along the way? Isn't that better than just sitting around and saying "oh dont worry about this enormous problem, its just an extra dimension" Or "Oh... god did it"... science right now is trying under very difficult circumstances (financial) to answer these questions and it will at all times try and explain these problems, and any answers we may find to the world.

Sorry if this might seem insulting but, it really is not my intent, nor how i wish it to sound but, the general population knows a minimal amount about the real ins and outs of science, not because of some big cover up, but because, the people who are thinking seriously and devoting their lives to finding these answers are not funded very well, and the general public have an attitude that is "Complicated, im bored, tits, antigravity or some sci-fi ray gun or STFU". When people, such as many here on ATS want to discuss these things, theories and what not, they do so very much in the manner of a hard man in a bar. Except rather than using muscles, (or brain power) they use as many complicated buzzwords as possible, like each buzzword is a punch and unless people can construct a come back with more buzzwords, then they have lost...


I do welcome all possible theories to what dark matter and dark energy is, I find the whole subject absolutely fascinating (i should do lol im in the wrong field if i didn't) and I too am not totally sold on the idea of WIMPS, but as i said, its the best bet we have at the moment. If we find it is something else, then great, more things to search for.


Let me ask this... Say you loose your car keys, you have this idea that they might be behind the sofa... were do you look first? Do you go outside, walk 5 miles dig a hole 6 ft deep and think... ooooh danm not here, then carry on digging? no you think, well the best possibility is the sofa, so you check that first... if that doesnt turn up anything, you think about when you last saw them. etc etc etc

That is what science does, it does not take random stabs in the dark... even if 'people' think thats what we do, it really doesn't.

Originally posted by ErosA433


Theory 2 - Dark matter is some kind of reflection of an alternate universe held in a different dimension.
Drawback - While beautifully elegant, can it be proven? Well best of my knowledge, no, why? well rotation curves if it is just regular matter in an extra dimension, it has to be dispersed differently. For it to be dispersed differently and for it to still be 'normal' matter then in that other dimension physical forces have to be different. SOoooo you just invented a whole other universe and physics, that has less chance than theory 1 to be probed directly.

The trick imo would be to find out how dark energy and dark matter interacts with our
dimension and explain the observations

But that is just it, there is no trick, just experimentation and science. There is also no reason to believe that dark energy, dark matter and normal matter are coupled in anyway at all. This would be a massive shame because it would mean that we can only observe the effects but not actually discover what it is.

To anyone claiming to know what it is, please show us tell us, and don't fall into the common 110 pitfalls of a pseudoscientist

Extremely interesting stuff. I just wrote a thread about dark matter and dark energy (mostly dark energy). Now reading this story has really peaked my interested. My thread really helps illustrate how much we don't know about these things. Here's my thread for anyone interested in learning more:

Layman's Guide To Understanding Modern Cosmology (dark energy, dark matter, higgs field etc)

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Yup, I saw your thread. As all ways very informative.

I thought you had it covered pretty well. I certainly had nothing of value to add.

Maybe they will say....Dark Matter doesn't really exist.

Originally posted by ErosA433


To anyone claiming to know what it is, please show us tell us, and don't fall into the common 110 pitfalls of a pseudoscientist

Would you be able to either qualify or qyantify your statement?

mmmm.... real simple explanation would be god farted.... instant darkmatter

Originally posted by hisshadow
mmmm.... real simple explanation would be god farted.... instant darkmatter

Lol thats a nice one.
Ya since you exist, we know he farted

Non-baryonic, dark matter is "shadow matter" superstrings whose forces are governed by E8' in the E8xE8' heterotic superstring. Non-dark matter consists of fermionic and bosonic states of superstrings whose forces are governed by the symmetry group E8. Dark energy is simply the long-range gauge fields of E8', or rather, certain subgroups of it into which E8' originally broke down.

There really is no mystery about it, once you have discovered the underlying theory, of which the Standard Model (including its supersymmetric versions) is not even a piece, merely, an approximation that is good except at the energy levels now being accessed by the Large Hadron Collider at CERN (hence the disappointment that it did not yet find supersymmetric particles). The problem is that no one has known for sure what the TOE is that would identify dark matter; hence, all the speculation. So some of us had to look in other directions to discover what this theory is. And now we have found it. It turns out that current physics is the result of the symmetry breakdown of E8xE8 into two classes of symmetries, one governing ordinary matter, the other governing invisible, shadow matter, which makes up most of the missing matter in the universe but which does not emit or scatter light, although it does radiate the shadow matter counterpart of electromagnetic energy that makes up much of the dark energy. These two kinds of matter are EQUALLY fundamental. Shadow matter is NOT just another kind of exotic matter predicted by a difficult-to-test theory, namely, superstring theory. The fundamental M-theory PREDICTS the existence of both kinds of matter, as well as the four other types of superstrings. But it predicts that quarks are not basic but composite bound states of three spin-1/2 preons. That's why supersymmetry has not been detected: supersymmetric quarks do not exist because supersymmetry applies to preons, not quarks.

That's all, folks. I could say more, but few of you would ever believe it, let alone understand it.....

reply to post by micpsi

Imo we will have to wait till the philosophies of m theory, string theory etc
are validated by obs or experiments to firmly peg the understanding of dark matter
and dark energy and w/o including macro extra spatial dimensions, it may never come.
Thats all folks