we the people need a lobbyist... fight fire with fire

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by Hopechest
Direct democracy is a horrible idea and even the founders knew this.

People feel sorry for Kim Kardashian one week and she get's elected President. People are too easily swayed, especially by the tainted media, to have that much control.

Yeah, there's that. It seems to work brilliantly in nations full of educated people who aren't worshiping celebrities. I could see it being a problem here at first but it would balance out once we realized we could directly vote out Monsanto and stop all wars.

On a small grass-roots level in a representative (

) democracy, I'd say we could work on the same things that other non-funded think tanks work on and just not go anywhere. We all have seen what happens when we try that. OWS? Tea Party? They just get co-opted by other interests that are funded. It sucks but it's true.

edit on 17-2-2013 by Cuervo because: (no reason given)

Also don't forget that in a direct democracy all laws will now be made by urban populations which tend to lean heavily liberal. Not really fair to the rest of the nation to not have any representation.

reply to post by Cuervo


Frustrating yes but anything worth fighting for or against is never easy. Even the grandest endevors begin with a discussion.

Used to be we did have lobbyists. They were our elected officials who were supposed to represent us.

That kind of went by the way side, for the most part, didn't it?

Originally posted by Hopechest
Also don't forget that in a direct democracy all laws will now be made by urban populations which tend to lean heavily liberal. Not really fair to the rest of the nation to not have any representation.

Direct democracy as implemented in Switzerland is not just democracy. They have a constitution, executive, legislative and judicial branches of government and direct democracy.

The only real difference when compared to the US is that the people can submit constitutional initiatives and they can overturn or strike down legislation passed by parliament.

It is like a fourth branch of government constituted by the citizens. It is even better than having a lobbyist because it is a direct voice instead of someone trying to sway representatives.

reply to post by daskakik


Yes I'm well aware of how Switzerland works but if you try that system here your basically going to have a few major cities getting enough votes to pass laws. San Francisco, LA, and New York will basically dictate how the rest of the country has to live.

That's not accurate but you get the point. Switzerland even has this issue. Representation is not equal.

reply to post by Hopechest

I'm sorry but the cities you mentioned don't even make up 7% of the population. That is taking them as if they would all vote in one direction which isn't probable. Throw in the other 93% percent and you have a real change in how things are done.

As things stand today you have about than .0001 of the population making choices for the lot. In all honesty that is even worse than mob rule, which democracy is often touted as.

No we need to give the whole corporations are people status the boot. Corporations having people status has effectively removed real people out of political influence; unless we mass protest we have no real say. Most people are also completely blind to what corporations are lobbying for when they buy their products or services.

Think of all the places you shop or things you buy; do you have any idea what they are lobbying for? Here's a few; Domino's pizza lobbies for pro life, Chic fila and the Salvation Army lobby Anti gay and lesbian rights...there's more so if you've ever wondered why some backwards legislation sticks around...it's because companies are using your dollars to lobby against things you might not be for.

Give corporations the people status boot and legislative/political power falls back into citizens hands where it belongs.

Why don't we just petition the governors of the 50 states to convene a constitutional congress, reset the Federal Government back to something that faintly resembles the way the federal government was outlined in the constitution to begin with, and then make sure THE Elected PUBLIC SERVANTS don't start immediatley start chipping away at the constitution again? There is NOW WAY that the three branches of the federal government SHOULD have the powers that they have given themselves up to now. and if they start pulling that crap again, we FIRE them all, because, YES WE CAN! ANd give the power back to the states that they are supposed to have in the first place! The States have ALWAYS done a better job than the FEDS, and F.D. R. is the person who is singularly most reponsible for hosing us in the first place! He's the one that used WWII to start grabbing
unlimited powers for the oval office that where never meant to be there in the first place, like the stinking 'war powers act'! if the fed acted like they understood the constitution, then we'd never had sent trooops to Iraq or A-Stan in the first place, because the lord and ladies of the upper & lower house wouldn't have the nerve to declare war on anyone, and thats that!

Originally posted by BigBrotherDarkness
Give corporations the people status boot and legislative/political power falls back into citizens hands where it belongs.

No it doesn't, it falls back into the hands of the politicians. Who are major investors in corporations and no doubt have steered things to their present state.

I like many of the notions in this thread. I have always thought that paid access to our legislative and executive offices have brought this great country to it's knees. Get rid of the lobbyist. Our politicians should listen to us, not the corporate whores with a fist full of dollars and favors.Politicians really should be held on treason charges for selling our best interest down the river for their own personal gain.