Most important thing I've ever written, and possibly the most important thing you'll ever read

That wasn't the most important thing I've read in the last hour, let alone ever.

reply to post by Carreau


hope whatever it was that you read in the last hour wasn't too life altering in a negative way, I'm sure it was big.

reply to post by RobbyMcGill


OP, I’m going to give you a S&F not because I agree with your rant but because you put a lot of effort into it and you’re passionate about it!

I do agree with some of the points you made (corruption of government, cronyism, Federal Reserve scam, etc). Having said that, much of the rest of it sounded like the ramblings of a person who simply can’t figure out why he/she isn’t successful. A lot of people who aren’t successful blame the world (or the country) for their inability to succeed….I’ve heard it all before. It’s not a surprise that people who can’t succeed view the world this way. Take this quote for example:

Our nation has all the resources we need to sustain our lifestyle and then some, there is no reason why good people are struggling to make a living because our government has screwed us over so far that no matter how hard we work we were destined to fail. There is no reason why we have an abundance of food that there are people starving everyday. There is no reason that the rich are allowed to live like kings, when the wealth can be shared.

Wealth redistribution? People who feel entitled to a certain lifestyle based solely on the fact that they were born really annoy me. Most of those “wealthy” people worked hard to get where they are. How can you begrudge them their success? We need to stop lumping all the “wealthy” in with the evil 1% or TPTB. Class envy is bad for the morale of the country.

Most people exercise their free will and pursue a career; they work hard, they start a family, they provide for their family, and they enjoy life. Most people don’t live their lives thinking they are slaves to a system rigged to keep them down!

Looking at your neighbors (or successful people in general) and allowing jealousy and envy to dominate your thoughts is NOT a productive way of thinking.

I propose we change the way we view our lives, we do not need to spend our entire lives slaving just to pay for the essentials, while the spoils from our labors are funneled up to the top tier of our nation.

I don’t mean any disrespect, so don’t take it that way, but you really must not have a good grasp on what REALLY hard work is (or slavery for that matter). The founding fathers you alluded to lived in a time of REAL hard work and REAL slavery. Most people today don’t know what it means to bust their arse from sun up until sun down just to scrape by. Poverty in America today is akin to a life of royalty when compared to the conditions our founders lived in! Unfortunately, hard work is a dying trait; those who have it become successful - those who don’t complain.

Even in the utopian society you’re suggesting, there will still be people who produce and people who take. There will ALWAYS be those who DO and those who DO NOT. There will always be those who THINK and those who ACT. The founders said we are all equal in the eyes of the law, and we are. That doesn’t mean every human is equal in other ways. This is especially evident when some people rant about how bad the country is and how evil their neighbor is because he/she happens to be more successful.

Instead of dragging us all down to an EQUAL state of misery, how about we all help each other become successful?

reply to post by seabag


thanks for the response seabag, and no offense taken. Let me clarify as I know it does appear as if I'm begrudging the hard workers, that is definitely not the case. I am taking offense to the atrocities committed in the name of the American people, and the corruption by TPB, and the only solution that I see is to eliminate a system that breeds these corruptions

I do have a grasp on the difficulties and trials of our founding fathers. However, if you were living during those times, you would also realize that they were enjoying the discoveries that THEIR forefathers discovered, that's evolution, continually advancing the species, every father wants to build a life for their children where they can have it better than they did, the same goes with each generation, we build off the discoveries and knowledge from the previous.

I have worked hard my entire life, hard work does not equal wealth, of course you're right that hard work can lead to wealth, but it is not JUST hard work that leads to wealth, the wealthy and especially the extremely wealthy are more than a little crooked, it is not just hoarding of knowledge but also greed and general uncaring of fellow man.

I am not saying that an evolved society can survive without hard workers, in fact quite the opposite, there will always be hard workers and they will be the ones who shape the future of our society. They will enjoy life way more than the average worker or the lazy worker. I'm against individualism and every one working towards their own goals, because I feel this is what allows the blinders to be placed and the corruption to be set. As I've stated, if you're focused on your survival, you're not concerning yourself with the atrocities being committed in your name.

As for enslavement, under the traditional definition of the word, we are not literally in chains. however, I can equate the average american's life to punching a time sheet 40 hours a week to sustain a life with the necessities as slavery. We are stuck in this pattern, for the entirety of our lives, and we have little to show for it.

Evolution is the continual growth and advancement of a species, we as a species have already laid the ground works for future generations to benefit from our labors. I am in no way begrudging the hard workers of our society, I am simply stating that the continual need for every person to work their day to day lives 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week for 50 years is ridiculous, especially when the average person is not enjoying the luxuries and comforts that our species has discovered and invented over the course of its evolution. Especially when the means and resources are there to provide those comforts

Usually the motivation behind posts like these is... "Wah!! I got in lots of debt because i thought the world was going to end and now i want to incite an armed revolt before they reposess my car."

Everyones always out to get you and a mother is a slave to her child... Blah blah blah.

reply to post by RobbyMcGill

I'm against individualism and every one working towards their own goals, because I feel this is what allows the blinders to be placed and the corruption to be set. As I've stated, if you're focused on your survival, you're not concerning yourself with the atrocities being committed in your name.

I don’t believe in collectivism, I believe in individualism like the founders of our country.

I find it hard to wrap my head around how you denounce the government yet you promote collectivism. The government is the biggest proponent of collectivism!

Collectivism IS SLAVERY!

An individual’s life belongs to him/her and we all have an inalienable right to live as we each see fit. We are all free to pursue the values of our own choosing. The individual is sovereign! This is the ideal that the American Founders set forth when they drafted the Declaration and the Constitution. They did this to protect each individual’s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They warned us about the potential for an overreaching, collectivist federal government. They warned us of the perils of consolidated powers, and they did what they could do limit the powers of the federal government.

Collectivism isn’t a perfect system because you can never please everyone. Freedom and free will are the only things that WILL please everyone.

reply to post by Wertdagf


couldn't be further from the truth, is it hard to believe that our society is on the brink of a global catastrophe and the main orchestrators are in our own government.

can you not see that a global meltdown results in the devolution of the species, and is it impossible to imagine that a solution is so simple as to not view the world based on the meager necessities of the individual but instead focus on the collective well being of the members of its society?

what i am trying to convey is nothing from my individual life, what I am trying to convey is the advancement of our entire race. we need to evolve, a species evolution coincides with the evolution of its society, and if it does not evolve, we will devolve.

reply to post by seabag


individualism promotes hoarding information for the profit of a few. each one of us is a human being, that is a collective group. how can we evolve, if information is locked from the masses? are we not entitled to advance our own species based of the point of views our individual lives have lead because we are not granted access to the collective knowledge of our species?

the reason why corporations are so successful is because they promote the importance of team work. A corporation will not succeed if everyone is not working towards the goals of company. yet in our society, instead of formulating and striving towards achievable goals, we promote a system where you are working on your own and the success and failures you meet are yours alone. this system is doomed to failure, no corporation will achieve success under such a mode of operation.

I'm not against governments, I'm against a corrupt government that allows greedy corporations to force its wills on the populace so that these corporations can continue their greedy hoarding. these corrupt governments are not in looking after the interest of the people they have sworn to represent, and instead are enriching their lives with the luxuries they deny the general population.

reply to post by RobbyMcGill

what i am trying to convey is nothing from my individual life, what I am trying to convey is the advancement of our entire race. we need to evolve, a species evolution coincides with the evolution of its society, and if it does not evolve, we will devolve.

I don’t get why you consider collectivism some great evolution. As if collectivism is some novel concept!

Many animals engage in collectism. Why do you think lions form prides, wolves form packs, etc. It’s been tried throughout history by humans and it never works to the benefit of everyone. People are individuals, which is one reason collectivism doesn’t work. I don’t want what you want and you don’t want what I want. When we are free to pursue our own ideals we can each find happiness. When we are forced to work for the collective we are slaves to the system. We have a thing called CHARITY to help the less fortunate. Giving shouldn't be legislated!

Meh…

reply to post by RobbyMcGill


Hi Robby,

First of all, I have tremendous respect for anyone who cares enough to put their feelings down in writing to share with the rest of us. We’re all at different levels of figuring out what’s going on and what to do about it, but your comments on the education system is one of the things I’d like to address because that’s where it all starts, with the bs fed to small children about the American Dream and the Greatness of America. Like George Carlin said, you’d have to be asleep to believe the dream is real, but we allow ~ no we demand that each new generation of little sponge heads must soak up the glory of it and spew it to the next generation without ever questioning what it is that supposedly makes a nation great. It simply “is”.

The funny thing about that is how many Americans have never even SEEN all of America nor met the people who reside in the far corners of the united States or care to, much less knowing those who live right in their own neighborhoods. Northerners still hate Southerners and vise versa, rural people curse state government officials and federal agencies that run roughshod over their small communities at the behest of multinational corporations, but all unfailingly refer to America as the greatest nation on earth. It makes no sense.

In my mind, that was the whole purpose of centralizing government/banking and licensing/regulating commerce from the top down in the first place, the bigger the structure, the less control those who live within that structure can have over it or even their own lives and fortunes. That’s why, IMO, so many people try to exercise control over others with their votes, because they have no control over themselves.

Whether or not this is the time to take up arms against the regime I can’t say, but it is time that we take note of what we can and cannot get our arms around and that’s not thousands of miles away, the place we need to start is right under our noses.

reply to post by RobbyMcGill

the reason why corporations are so successful is because they promote the importance of team work. A corporation will not succeed if everyone is not working towards the goals of company. yet in our society, instead of formulating and striving towards achievable goals, we promote a system where you are working on your own and the success and failures you meet are yours alone. this system is doomed to failure, no corporation will achieve success under such a mode of operation.

Nobody said you can’t use teamwork. I’m saying we shouldn’t legislate teamwork. People have FREE WILL, bro!

Your successes and failures ARE YOUR OWN!!

I guess I was right - you want to blame the country for your lack of success.

NO THANKS! YOU OWN IT!

By the way, I'm in NO WAY defending the usurpation of power by the crony-capitalists or DC politicians. We have serious problems in our country as you well know. I do, however, believe in personal responsibility.

reply to post by seabag


where was my success or failure ever brought up? success to me is not decided by the amount of cash I have in my bank account, it's is summed up for me in the lives that i'm able to impact and the experiences i'm am lucky to have. This life is an experience, and our society forgets that, instead it focuses on the attainment of the necessities to sustain life. again, this is not about me

and our society does not use team work, it is not an issue of anybody saying we could or couldn't, it's about its nonexistence in our society. if we had teamwork, then we can collectively come up with solutions to the issues i've stated, again going back to vehicles, Obama issued a standard for fuel efficiency by 2025 that all car and light truck models average 54.5 mpg. if we truly worked toward achievable goals, then I say 10 years to abolish our dependency on fuel consumption is more than achievable especially when there is already leaders in the field that are silenced by the corporations that will lost money to these products



I never stated that free will is lost, you are losing something in the translation, and team work is not legislation, all the same jobs will continue, and you will have more control over your life.

Obama finalizes historic 54.5 MPG Fuel Efficiency standardsObama Admin Finalizes Historic 54.5 MPG Fuel Efficiency standards

reply to post by RobbyMcGill

Hi,
I only skimmed your OP, and will attempt another read...

Last night as I was falling asleep; I imagined the others we share in creation were holding an auction-like spectacle of how we've been progressing...

They are all rooting for us to succeed, despite knowing what we are up against.

Sorry if off-topic, it just came to me as I was skimming the OP.

ETA; What would we be doing if we were succeeding?

reply to post by frazzle


thanks for the response frazzle.

I may have jumped the gun a little on the call to arms, but I do believe the time is soon. I think I wanted more to set the tone for the need of change our nation and our society is facing.

that being said, i don't even believe that a true revolution needs to take up arms against their government, i believe if the people feel strongly enough that a change is in order for the society, then the government will have to face facts. But that type of revolution needs to be an unshakable and strongheaded resolve that will show the willingness to take up arms if change is not properly addressed

reply to post by RobbyMcGill

Where was my success or failure ever brought up? success to me is not decided by the amount of cash I have in my bank account, it's is summed up for me in the lives that i'm able to impact and the experiences i'm am lucky to have.

I brought it up! I said a lot of people who aren’t successful blame the world (or the country) for their inability to succeed. Your OP sounded like the rant of someone who isn’t doing well. Take a look:

The majority of the American people are forced to work jobs they despise their entire lives to make a living, this is how we are enslaved. We must work to live, that is acceptable apparently, we don't like it, but we need to eat. That's just how they WANT it to be. If you are so focused on fending for you and your own, then everything else will ALWAYS come in second, this allow them to feed us the lies of freedom and democracy

That certainly didn’t sound like the feelings of someone who is successful and happy with his/her life.

I never stated that free will is lost, you are losing something in the translation

Apparently so!

I will stop clogging up your thread with my posts since I obviously have no idea where you're coming from anymore. I really have no idea where you stand at this point. Enjoy your collectivist revolution!

reply to post by loveguy


actually off topic or not, i've recently had a similar thought!

while watching the history channel on something or another about our universe, I was attempting to fathom the complexities that our universe hold and this thought occurred to me:

what if our entire universe was the result of an all knowing species, or god if you will, roll of the dice to see if evolution will evolve to the point that an accurate description of the secrets of the universe can be understood. Everything from when the big bang initiated this entire crazy existence to the eventual cooling and depletion of the universe.

this lead to a realization that all species that evolve to a point of space travel will probably face the very conflicts that we face in where our society evolves from primitive forms where gods are the explanations to the secrets of the universe, to our current state where societies interact in a global economy and past mythologies are still seen as the answers to the mysteries, which leads to conflicting groups and nations.

This stage in the society's evolution, the one i feel we are currently in, as the species is ready to explore the wonders and mysteries of space will likely face a world conflict which has the potential to devolve the species (my theories are based on the conclusion that to travel the solar systems, we must possess knowledge that can also catastrophically destroy) and if we do not evolve the society, then odds are will destroy and devolve, forced to climb back to this point.

Where my line of thinking aligns with yours is that any species that have evolved to this point has probably also reached a similar conclusion and understand the importance for a species to make this step on their own without help, which is why they are rooting for us to succeed.

My theory was an ah-hah moment, which actually lead me to this very post. Odds are this has happened before in our species existence, this can explain so many of the mysteries of the ancients, how the knowledge they possess that we have lost. The mysteries of how our ancient society has such a thorough understanding of the cosmos is a mystery. but if we have evolved to a similar state before, then it will explain their knowledge, it will explain the gods and legends they pass down. Their stories turn into legends, which turn into myths which turn into religion...and i felt that if we allowed it to happen again, we would again devolve to such a primitive state. it was an exciting thought that has lit a fire in me!

reply to post by seabag


thanks for conversing with me regardless, I feel I've strengthened my position and my resolve, I may have done the same for you as well on yours.

As a side note, despite ones success or failures in life it is more than possible and conceivable to be aware of and sympathetic to the sufferings of those around them. Or maybe in a society where everyone is fending for themselves it is a little inconceivable.

But again, thanks for bantering with me, I welcome any other inputs you may have, bogging down my thread or not

reply to post by RobbyMcGill

thanks for conversing with me regardless

Always! It’s what we do here!

I feel I've strengthened my position and my resolve, I may have done the same for you as well on yours.

My position has always been solid. I simply don’t exactly understand where you’re coming from. You say a lot of things I agree with then you go off on the collectivist stuff. Reminds me of the unorganized OWS message; some resonate and other aspects are in left field IMO.

You’re going to have a hard time getting people on board with ‘your plan’ if people don’t understand “your plan.” I certainly don’t…but good luck working it out!

Cheers!

Originally posted by RobbyMcGill
reply to post by frazzle

 

thanks for the response frazzle.

I may have jumped the gun a little on the call to arms, but I do believe the time is soon. I think I wanted more to set the tone for the need of change our nation and our society is facing.

that being said, i don't even believe that a true revolution needs to take up arms against their government, i believe if the people feel strongly enough that a change is in order for the society, then the government will have to face facts. But that type of revolution needs to be an unshakable and strongheaded resolve that will show the willingness to take up arms if change is not properly addressed

No, I don't think you've jumped the gun there, lots of people are coming to that conclusion. But in my estimation they would be doomed to failure from the start simply because while many seem to agree on what they'd be fighting against, it seems as if no two people can agree on what they'd be fighting for.

Me? I'm for the peaceful kind of revolution where all of the states simply walk away from the madness and set up whatever kind of governments they can support in their own states or regions. Probably wouldn't be any two exactly alike so there'd be some shifting around of where people would choose to hang their hats.

And of course the ptb would react to that with force just like they did last time, and naturally taking up arms to defend would be the result. The bottom line is, as much as the fat cats pretend to scrap with each other over minor issues, they all like being the boss on the big issues that keep us imprisoned in the matrix.

reply to post by frazzle

Me? I'm for the peaceful kind of revolution where all of the states simply walk away from the madness and set up whatever kind of governments they can support in their own states or regions.

I’m in agreement with this and recently made a thread on this issue that you substantively contributed quite a bit to (thank you).

I’m all for having 50 different governments and a mutual defense agreement between the states. Who needs the fed??? If some states want to do things like the OP suggests (collectivism) then the OP can move there and live in Utopia. I will live where people share my ideals. This makes the most sense to me...much more sense than a one-size-fits-all approach that will leave many people disappointed.