The prevailing troll culture and "gameification" of modern social media and the internet.

On another point, the "gameifcation" of the internet has it's benefits as well.

Sometimes when you present your thoughts on a subject, and you recieve enough thumbs down, smart people will reflect on the reason they recieve negative attention. Those who aren't trolling, that is.
Sometimes you have to consider your audience. You have to account for trolls, as well.

But sometimes it can lead to you re-evaluating your thoughts on a subject, or at least the way you present them.

We all know not to "feed the trolls" but sometimes, you just have to join them to beat them.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by AceWombat04

 

... Personally, I don't think actual "trolling" is that much of an issue here at ATS, I don't see it often compared to any other forum I've used. Instead, if you have a different opinion, you are a troll. That's how the bulk of the ATS community now functions.

Yes exactly. These days if you say someone in a short sentence that you disagree with you call them a troll. That's like disagreeing with homosexuality and being called a bigot because they cannot handle criticism. Here on ATS they cannot handle critisism or even sarcasm. There can be some very clever sarcasm sometimes. Same can apply here to trolls.... you don't like what they say...TROLL !!!! That is the worst kind of intolerance and bigotry (apart from the insecure homosexuals) and ATS reeks of it.

(wait for it...someone will bite!)

if you seriously get offended by what others have to say, discontinue reading what they have to say. stop replying to what they do. in other words, "don't feed the trolls".

sad part is, most people just automatically call troll just because their opinion is different and try to get the rest of the conversation turned on them being a troll due to the inability to counter argue the "troll's" point. so i would say it isn't just these so called trolls as much as it is people getting their internet feelings hurt over a differing opinion.

tl;dr: don't like it? don't read or reply

reply to post by AceWombat04

Boiling it down to "always being right". And "Entitled". Having the "last word". Self centered and narcissistic. You should meet my family. Their whole world is dependent upon proving they are better than everyone else, that only what they want matters. I am like that too. Difference is I hate that part of me. Their day is filled with selfish pursuits that they are always busy with. They are full of themselves and love to be ambitious and busy.

Of course in the real world you have to also pretend to care while hiding that other behavior. They have good "cover". They go to church, have picket fences and pay all their bills on time. Unless you know them closely you would never guess their true identity.

Online anonymity allows every little brat minded personality to run amok as there is no consequences for that behavior. If they tried to pull that in the real world they would likely wear their ass for a hat.

Just a quick response to several posts.

On the issue of unfair labeling of people with differing opinions as trolls: I hear you, and that's not what I'm referring to in this topic. I know that the label of "troll" gets tossed around a lot unfairly and without warrant. I have never done that, and would never do that. I pride myself on being able to disagree civilly and on trying my utmost not to be dismissive. You will never find me disagreeing with someone without going out of my way to let them know I respect their opinion or belief and that I'm not being hostile in my disagreement. As I stated in my post, I'm not talking about those instances. I'm talking about people who blatantly make it their chief goal to troll, and the internet culture (or subculture if you like) that has emerged from that sentiment. Not based on assumption, but based on experiences where people have actually copped to it.

For instance, I once spent an hour very politely discussing with someone who no matter what I said or did would hurl insults and try to push my buttons. I remained calm, was respectful throughout, and never rose to their bait. Finally when the level of vitriol reached a suspicious level I asked in a noncommittal way whether they were serious or simply trolling. Their response? "How does it feel to know you just got trolled for an hour?" Without giving away too many personal details, this individual turned out to be a gainfully employed adult who unbeknownst to me at the time I actually knew casually in my personal life.

Which is what I would point out in response to the excellent point someone made earlier about blaming a generation and how this sort of behavior is endemic to children of all generations. I would agree... except that I'm not talking exclusively or even primarily about children. This is an attitude and a behavior that I see more and more in adults. Ostensibly mature, employed, rational adults who make it their pastime to annoy others both online and off, as a form of game which provides them gratification. I wish I was making that up, but sadly I'm not.

Lastly, the issue of simply ignoring trolls. As I said in my post, yes, we can do that. But when you don't know someone is trolling and are trying to have a legitimate discussion with that individual, it's fairly difficult to ignore something you don't know is happening. Someone said that regardless of this, the quality and content of your own posts stands on its own. I agree. It's actually never my intent to convince anyone of anything. I say what I think and feel. People can make of that what they wish. When I'm describing discussing something with someone who turns out to be a troll, it isn't to convince them of my position. It's just a series of responses explaining why and how I differ. One need not necessarily be trying to win. On the contrary, that's part of the game people play that I want no part of. Personally, I dislike competition. I prefer communication. Though I do agree that some of the best points people make are in response to trolls. I've had that experience as well. But that doesn't make it less frustrating or disappointing that people do this.

I like to put it this way. When I say I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I require you to agree with me.

Peace.

It is extremely easy to deal with a troll. Identify a troll then stop feeding it.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Xoanon
reply to post by wWizard

 

The internet is the Wild West and it should stay that way.

Damn straight, pardner.

We aren't going to learn crap unless it actually gets, 'worse'.

We're learning nothing now and you want it "worse"? By feeding this culture it's guaranteed that we will continue to gain NO ground. Too damn busy trying to WIN.

Yes, I suppose that I do, it seems that the only way that people are going to wake up to how to use their six shooter is if they ghave their I.D. ripped off; I happen to know from unfortunate experience that it takes people having their privacy invaded and money removed from their accounts more than twice befor they stop using '1-2-3' as their password.

Me:

To try and put it more simply; people sense what can be done to them with this technology, they are learning to do it back, and through this process they will learn to recognize it when they see it. If you've done it to someone else, then it's easier to see it when it is being done to you.

Narrative, context, the ability to tweak the emotions of large groups of people via writing; these are aspects of human communication that we have all been able to not worry so much about because they were confined to print. The web unleashes it directly in to our daily, immediate lives, and the stuff is mostly used in attack mode; someone payed for it to have an effect, not just sit there.

We are going to have to learn to deal with all of this the hard way, and we are. I disagree, I think that places like ATS are where folks come for target practice, even if they don't put it exactly like that, or are even aware that that is exactly what they are doing. Folks are learning plenty, in my opinion.

Strange as it seems, I was about to make a similar thread, not really sure where. I've been playing online sometime and almost every match I've been in I've got harassed, insulted, humiliated in some ways just because I don't waste enough of time to practice a game (and not really interested in some sort).
Some even go that far to go to personal messages and keep it on, insulting your mom is just an habit. If it's your first game, no problem, you are worth nothing. They won't understand, I bet they were pro on their first game.

That's not really a problem for me, because thankfully I have a lot of other interests in life and a job that's also my passion. But raised a concern on me.

So I was asking myself: do people really go that far insulting someone they don't know? He could be anyone, an older person, a mature one, that don't really care about, but still they keep insulting.

This just go well beyond the "Just ignore them" matter, it's a matter of respecting people. You have a computer in between, but still a living person beyond that and you are still insulting them personally. Despite you are playing a game with all the heat of the battles, you are still showing a high disrespect.

I guess our youngest are really learning who to not respect, if they are not as good as them (from their perspective).

I work with gaming and I see them really stressed, everything is about competition, no more a friendly game, a game of cooperation. It's all about winning and prevailing, gaining ephemeral successes which are worth less than nothing, compared to a success accomplished in real life, may it sport, school or work. Every game has levels, rankings and leagues. If you are not in a good placement, you are nothing.
I've seen young people being very stressed and angry just for a single match, which brings to the above behavior, showing disrespect to others.

Same goes for social networking or just humourous websites (ala 9gag), where sometimes it's just about humiliating the image of someone else. If someone is fat, just tell'em! Ugly? Insult them!

Is that the trolling culture? Making fun of anything for any reason just for sake of it? Do you insult just because you can? It just makes you look like an ass, tbh.

Just my 2c

reply to post by AceWombat04


Hi Ace Wombat- brilliant OP, Oh I quite agree with you. I currently have a troll chasing me around, disrupting the threads I participate in, this lets say it ‘ is painful and boring to behold.

However – I believe there are 3 different types of trolls, there is the ‘bully’ who likes to target an individual who has differing views and brain beat them until they are break and swear allegiance to their, superior voice.

This type of person is either repressed in their real life, or exactly the same to all the people they meet. They are always right and there is no discussion, just their opinion thrust forcefully into your face. They get away with this because they have a guise of ‘wisdom’ or ‘knowledge’.

This type of person trolls in a little bully group, never being quite so offensive to get banned; they are disruptive and unpleasant nonetheless.

I doubt they will change, because everything is everyone elses fault.

Then there are the misunderstandings between posters – who I do not think are trolls, just heated and miscommunicating, I think this is the most common occurence of so called ' trolling'.

Then there is the professional troll who aims to be as offensive as possible.

In my opinion the first type of troll is the worst as they do it under a veil of respectability.

There are a few common types of trolls online.

The first type is a bully in real life. He's usually a dull-minded individual who is intimidated by smarter people. When someone comes along who's smarter than him, he will ridicule and belittle that person until that person bows out, feeling inferior. This type of troll acts because of his own feelings of inadequacy. He want's all to know that he's the Alpha around here. He is the first one to insult, usually in his first post on the subject.

The second type is an intelligent but timid person in real life. He is constantly bullied at work or school, but online he is the tough guy he wishes he was in real life. Instead of using his intelligence to debate, he bullies people via trolling to boost his own ego. This person tends to do his trolling via shouting matches with his "caps lock" on, the only punctuation he seems to know is the exclamation point.

The third type is highly-educated, and even presents his idea in a logical manner. However, he is unable to take disagreement or criticism. He takes it as a personal attack on his intelligence and comes back guns blazing with insults and meaningless factoids. Because he has no grasp on the non-personal nature of the debate, he quickly starts to derail the thread with heated replies to every response to him, even if it's his own thread.

Then there's the fourth and most common type of troll. This person is very set in their ways. To this person, his opinion on the subject is gospel, and not to be questioned. Anybody from an different area of the country or the world is wrong if they disagree with him, also in his opinion, anybody from a different region is also stupid by birth. This person isn't particularly stupid, but he is ignorant. He thinks ignorant is an insult, and he feels that if somebody points out his ignorance, then it is a personal attack towards him. His ideas can not be changed by words. This guy shows up a lot on "hot button" threads like gun control or Islam.

The last type likes to throw insults and laughter at people because it entertains him. Not much is known about his public life as he never uses his real name. He likes to get a rise out of people and will say things like "You Europeans are so dumb, go back to serving your king!" or "All these fat, dumb, Americans are so pathetic! Go back to working at Wal-Mart and eating at McDonalds!" This uses stereotypes exclusively and commonly posts blatantly racist or inflammatory statements. When his account is deleted, he just makes a new account and continues his trolling. These people aren't that numerous, but they post so much that it seems like they're taking over the site, or the entire internet for that matter.

Anyway, that's my take on trolls.

I think that some trolls can be seen to be within a sort of larval stage which may ultimately lead to them becoming responsible forum contributors in the future.

I also think that these web forums are going to create the return of Forums, with a capital F, the likes of which haven't been seen since it was the favorite spectator sport in Ancient Greece.

I have never for a second thought that ATS was not large enough and smart enough to handle any troll with a big warm hug and enough rope to hang themselves with. You guys are going to be fine. If we didn't go through this then how would we ever get so quick at spotting trolls?

P.S. I must humbly admit that, in retrospect, I came on board at ATS as what could only be considered as a troll. Seriously, go look at my thread list; I've been trollin' some crazy ideas.

reply to post by Xoanon


Good post, i would like to add -

I think it is a shame they cannot self reflect. That they think they can 'demand' answers to their constant demanding questions. That is not dialogue it is interogation.

There are a few like that, it is a form of trolling but they present themselves as 'experts' they destroy threads just the same though.

And before I go,

When I posted to Intrepid about getting one's I.D. ripped off, some folks might have thought, "WTF does I.D. theft have to do with trolls?!".

Well, both have to do with security on networked computers.

Sometimes I wish that you folks would "Wakey wakey and smell the bake-y", no offense, but Intrepid is right to the degree that the real network security pros are too busy Winning to worry if anyone catches up...

...they'll handle it, that's what they are there for. And them handling it provides a certain amount of job security, and there is nothing wrong with that. But as with all security concerns, you don't ever want to totally give up control of that. You know what I mean?

Same with security on networked computers (that means all networked computers), it behooves one to go out and take some jujitsu lessons, some get really good at it, some have no real interest after-all, and it is always important to remember that every single person has fight in them.

So, what's that have to do with trolls? That's the bacon I would like you to smell. Do you know why people like to keep and look at pictures? Well, one way to think of that is that people like them because they capture those that they love in an instance of context, and the emotions that they had for those people within that context are brought to life when they look at the picture.

Now what about writing? When one reads a book one can enter, in a way, the context within which the plot operates. The reader can experience the emotions of the characters and share those feelings and have emotions and feelings of their own within the context of the book.

Can you see with me now how important this is to people? That is why they love books and pictures, that is why they seek them out. That is why a Kindle or a smart phone or ATS is so neat.

Marketing experts, economists, psychologists, especially sociologists, they know this. And some of them are coming for you and they don't have what could be considered to be good intentions.

They are coming after your heart and soul, with technologies that are so astoundingly bad-ass that your brain would melt if you got it all at once. Just a dram made me a gibbering idiot for a week.

Trolls and their sox operate within the field of context and emotion. The target is perception. Become a superior operant.

Haz a nice day.

A Possible Starting Place For Self Defence

Looking for a solution? ATS Thread

Linea segundo.

Trolling is a learned art used to deal with self righteous assholes.

Try it some time.

Originally posted by e118882
Trolling is a learned art used to deal with self righteous assholes.

Try it some time.

I think you will find it is the self righteous a__eholes doing the trolling, backed up by their buddies. Gang mentality.

reply to post by AceWombat04


It might help to have a feature where people have to type an affirmation (not just a copy paste) before they post. Something like:

"I don't know everything and I know no one else knows everything. I have expertise in xyz because I spent abc year studying at def. I recognize even though I am an expert in xyz I don't know everything about xyz. However I have strong opinions about xyz because of my abc years of study."

Forcing (not just urging) people to tone their wording down and accept humility might cause the rest of their writing to harmonize with the first paragraph.

Good post.

So humanity has the wonderfully profound opportunity to manifest and share free knowledge and information the world over, and this is what millions do with it; good job!

Hear hear.

Its interesting to note all the banned accounts in this thread alone.

I dare say a thread about trolling is bound to attract the very beasts we are all complaining about, but I suppose its a great way to pick the wheat from the chaff lol. Go get them trolls Mods.

Originally posted by Doomcake
So humanity has the wonderfully profound opportunity to manifest and share free knowledge and information the world over, and this is what millions do with it; good job!

edit on 8-2-2013 by Doomcake because: Spellz

Just add this to the list of wasted human opportunities.

reply to post by AceWombat04

There are trolls who know they are trolling, and then there is everybody else. Those who are not aware they are trolls. And so to troll or not to troll, that is not the question?
But when In fact the question does not matter, and neither does the answer.