Pastor to waitress: I GIVE GOD 10% WHY SHOULD I GIVE YOU 18%?

Originally posted by Grimpachi

I can tell you have no clue what a server does if you think they just plop plates down in front of you. Then again the town you live in the servers may know who you are in which case you are getting what you deserve if that’s all the service you get based on the impression I get about you.

We havn't even talked about the cost of eating out compared to the 90s that also increases tip. How many table do you typically have? 6? If 6 and turn around was 90 mins and average bill was 100 per table that means you turn about 30 tables per shift. 30 x 20 is 600 not bad even after you pay the busboys/bartender too.

reply to post by Montana


What it is suppose to be and what it is are two different things and you appear to be aware of how it really works.

So if you don't tip and you received good service you are knowingly taking money away from another family, because you know the employer is counting the waiters tip as part of their compensation. You also know that the waiter took the job knowing that tips are part of their compensation. In addition most waiters do get their 15% + tips so when a waiter takes the position both the waiter and the owner acknowledge that the position is not a minimum type wage industry.

As a matter of fact, when I worked as a waiter to pay for college if the owner ended up paying to many times for you to make minimum wage they would fire you. I saw it happen several times.

So again, you know the rules of today and all parties understand the rules. You go out to dinner and you get good service you are EXPECTED to pay 15% at minimum to the waiter. The waiter knows this, the owner knows this, the customer knows this. So it might not be the way it should be but that is the way it is and if you don't tip you are taking advantage of another persons livelihood.

reply to post by interupt42


Mandatory tipping and reduced wages are not the only 'way things are'. Before I patronize an establishment more than once I find out how the employees are paid. I find out how good the food is, and what reputation the owner/manager has. If the reputation is a manipulative or abusive one you can be guaranteed I will never go in the door. I base my purchase decisions on what are my priorities- good food, good service, and honorable employers. Price comes in a distant fourth.

This means there are only three or four places I give my business to and I don't go out four times a week. I'm OK with that.

Be a good consumer. Do your research and support good employers. YOU decide what is ethical or unethical, not the business owner. Vote with your feet or get eaten by the 'system.

Originally posted by Montana
reply to post by interupt42

 

Mandatory tipping and reduced wages are not the only 'way things are'. Before I patronize an establishment more than once I find out how the employees are paid. I find out how good the food is, and what reputation the owner/manager has. If the reputation is a manipulative or abusive one you can be guaranteed I will never go in the door. I base my purchase decisions on what are my priorities- good food, good service, and honorable employers. Price comes in a distant fourth.

This means there are only three or four places I give my business to and I don't go out four times a week. I'm OK with that.

Be a good consumer. Do your research and support good employers. YOU decide what is ethical or unethical, not the business owner. Vote with your feet or get eaten by the 'system.

Good for you, you must live in a small town and dine in mostly locally own business and know the employees and owners pretty well. You must also not shop in any big brand stores that outsources their employees from overseas.

Although, expecting a 15% tip does not necessary mean a manipulative or abusive owner/manager its just how the industry works here in the US. All I'm saying its no secret that you go out to dinner at a restaurant you are expected to tip if you get good service. If you don't the only person is most likely getting penalized is the little guy.

Should the industry be run the way it is another question, but until it changes thats the way it is.

reply to post by interupt42

It won't change by itself, will it?

Originally posted by Montana
reply to post by interupt42

 

It won't change by itself, will it?

Agreed, but I think that the majority of the country (including waiters) doesn't have a problem with the 15% tipping rule. I think its a small percentage that have a problem with the 15% rule. It was not common practice to get stiffed in the industry when I was involved with it.

So why change it?

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by Montana
reply to post by interupt42

 

It won't change by itself, will it?

Agreed, but I think that the majority of the country doesn't have a problem with the 15% tipping rule. I think its a small percentage that have a problem with the 15% rule. It was not common practice to get stiffed in the industry when I was involved with it.

This is exactly the problem. Why do you feel that YOU get to determine what your tip is? Why do you feel entitled to 15%? Shouldn't that be the customer's decision?

Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by Montana
reply to post by interupt42

 

It won't change by itself, will it?

Agreed, but I think that the majority of the country doesn't have a problem with the 15% tipping rule. I think its a small percentage that have a problem with the 15% rule. It was not common practice to get stiffed in the industry when I was involved with it.

This is exactly the problem. Why do you feel that YOU get to determine what your tip is? Why do you feel entitled to 15%? Shouldn't that be the customer's decision?

No, aren't you aware that if you go out to eat you are EXPECTED to give at least 15% for good service?

reply to post by interupt42


I am a free human being. You don't have the right to 'expect' anything from me in the way of tips or gratuities or anything over and above the stated price. If you need 15% more money than raise your price 15% and be honest and up front about it. Don't prey on my pity or force my generosity. The price is supposed to be on the menu, right?

I have already said I don't give my business to places that force me to pay extra, so no, I don't 'expect' to pay 15%. I expect to pay more in a REAL tip for REAL service. And I decide what amount it will be. I never have a problem finding a place to eat, and the servers in those places are uniformly happy, friendly and helpful. These restaurants always get the best employees. And I support THEM.

reply to post by Montana


The server doesn't set the tipping rate, the IRS does.

The IRS requires every server to pay taxes on 8% of their sales. They take into consideration non tippers, low tippers and the amount that the server is require to tip out to other staff members, like bussers, bartenders, food runners and dining room coordinators.

Regardless of your tip, the server pays out around 6 to 8 dollars for every hundred dollars in sales. So, if you leave a $10 dollar tip on a $100 tab, the server will pocket 2 to 4 dollars of that. The nicer the restaurant the more the server will tip out.

One place I worked, they brought in, and everyone had to do it, a breaker to take over your station when you went on break. We were required to pay the breaker $8 for a 30 minute break, whether or not it was busy, on top of all the other staff that we tipped out regularly.

I don't know of any other example of people having to pay to be off the clock.

reply to post by lupodigubbio


What a cheap SOB!

I think that once a person goes and makes such an issue PUBLIC as she did in this case...it is OBVIOUS that she is going to get Fired as the people she works for cannot take the HIT of Condemnation and Scorn that the Religious Public will and did rain down upon them as well as the waitress.

Still...this seems to have gone VIRAL and thus she hopefully made some money on it.

The Pastor I am certain was well aware that a waitress works for tips in order to get pay and thus pay her bills. I cannot for one second believe that the Pastor was not fully aware of this and I believe one of the reasons of such disrespectful behavior by such Religious Leaders is that they tend to get used to having people Kiss their Asses all the time either it be the way people treat them or the way people seem to place such Religious Pastors, Priests and the like upon some pedestal.

I have seen this all my life as at some function where such a Priest or Pastor or the like was invited...the people either in charge of the function or the hosts...would upon seeing this religious leader...rush to them and offer them anything and everything they could well in front of any others that might perhaps be waiting their turn for food, drink or any type of service.

These...usually MEN of religion ALWAYS seem to act in a way that at least showed me they were very much succeptable to some of the 7 Deadly Sins and in particular...VANITY and PRIDE. Thus as generations of people have seen how these Men were to be treated an air of Aristocracy was formed around such Men as they bathed in the glow of admiration of the faithful who seem to connect how such Men are treated with how great some GODS reward will be once they reach Heaven.

If I was a waiter and saw the check...I would quietly ask the Pastor..."Pastor...I work very hard and very long hours doing my job and my pay which is very modest to begin with...comes from the tips of my customers. Since it is VERY hard to support my family and children on such modest pay as well as have to pay someone to watch my children when I work such long hours...I must ask you...DID I DO SOMETHING WRONG to such an extent that you would disreguard my hard work and accute attention that I performed while serving you? Please tell me because it is important that I correct any mistakes I have made because although such a small amount of money may mean nothing to you...for me...it is the difference between my children having HEAT OR FOOD this cold winter week."

Then I would make sure I caught it on a Digital Video Cell Phone and if He or She answered negatively or in a manner not fitting a Person of GOD...I would make CERTAIN it was uploaded to the Internet.

Split Infinity

reply to post by windword


Taxes are taxes and we all pay them in one way or another. I know how tips are taxed. Why should that require me to accept mandatory tipping? If you aren't making enough in tips to cover the taxes on 8% of your 'lowered' minimum wage than maybe you should consider a career change. I am not interested in supporting someone who is not doing a reasonably good job.

The example you gave is totally unfair in my mind, but yet people still worked there. Tells me a lot right there.

Originally posted by Montana
reply to post by interupt42

 

I am a free human being. You don't have the right to 'expect' anything from me in the way of tips or gratuities or anything over and above the stated price. If you need 15% more money than raise your price 15% and be honest and up front about it. Don't prey on my pity or force my generosity. The price is supposed to be on the menu, right?

I have already said I don't give my business to places that force me to pay extra, so no, I don't 'expect' to pay 15%. I expect to pay more in a REAL tip for REAL service. And I decide what amount it will be. I never have a problem finding a place to eat, and the servers in those places are uniformly happy, friendly and helpful. These restaurants always get the best employees. And I support THEM.

You are correct in being a human being. As a human being you also have the right to knowingly screw someone out of a deserved payment. Its a decisions one makes, but don't incorrectly justify it.

It is not my 'expectation' that you pay 15% more, its the industries and the countries expectation that you leave a 15% tip. Leaving 15% or more is the norm, leaving 0% is the minority.

You have the right to not leave it, but you are also very aware that the person on the other end along with the majority of the country also expects that 15% as part of his livelihood. Nobody is forcing you, but rest assure that you are screwing someone else from part of their livelihood when you stiff the waiter and they provided good service.

All I'm saying is don't try to justify it, because whether you like it or not, its the norm and its what is expected by the majority of customers,workers,and Americans.

A CEO or an employee in a company gets a bonus if they meet the criteria , why shouldn't a waiter?

reply to post by Montana


Tipping is usually only mandatory when management enforces it on big parties. They are informed ahead of time, usually at the time the reservation is made, or when they first approach and tell the hostess the number in the party. People in large parties know about the automatic tip before they sit down.

Management does this to protect, not only the waiter, but everyone else that is depending on that tip. In this case, the pastor was part of a big party, and the automatic tip was applied. Because the pastor asked for a separate check, a very popular ploy used to get out of tipping, her tip was automatically calculated by the computer, not the server. Had she talked directly to the manager and complained about service or the food, most likely the manager would have adjusted the bill or removed the tip, but she didn't. She had to be #@**#er.

Honestly, as a server, I would not want her money. There's always another table. Servers are blessed with the privilege of earning a living based on the generosity of others.

Originally posted by interupt42

You are correct in being a human being. As a human being you also have the right to knowingly screw someone out of a deserved payment. Its a decisions one makes, but don't incorrectly justify it.

It is not my 'expectation' that you pay 15% more, its the industries and the countries expectation that you leave a 15% tip. Leaving 15% or more is the norm, leaving 0% is the minority.

You have the right to not leave it, but you are also very aware that the person on the other end along with the majority of the country also expects that 15% as part of his livelihood. Nobody is forcing you, but rest assure that you are screwing someone else from part of their livelihood when you stiff the waiter and they provided good service.

All I'm saying is don't try to justify it, because whether you like it or not, its the norm and its what is expected by the majority of customers,workers,and Americans.

A CEO or an employee in a company gets a bonus if they meet the criteria , why shouldn't a waiter?

Whoa there, Buckaroo! Don't be putting words in my mouth.

I have never said I don't tip, in fact I usually tip much more but you conveniently ignore that. The only times I have ever left no tip were the very few times where a server was obnoxious, abusive, or totally incompetent. My problem is with MANDATORY tips.

You are correct that a server who meats the criteria should receive a tip, but those criteria are mine, not the server's and not the employer's. If you meet the employer's criteria you get a paycheck. If you meet mine you get a (good) tip. You aren't entitled to either. You have to EARN them both.

Originally posted by Montana
reply to post by windword

 

Taxes are taxes and we all pay them in one way or another. I know how tips are taxed. Why should that require me to accept mandatory tipping? If you aren't making enough in tips to cover the taxes on 8% of your 'lowered' minimum wage than maybe you should consider a career change. I am not interested in supporting someone who is not doing a reasonably good job.

The example you gave is totally unfair in my mind, but yet people still worked there. Tells me a lot right there.

But do you pay income taxes on money you never made?

reply to post by windword


If a 'tip' is negotiated and agreed to prior to service than it is part of the bill and that's fine. It seems more honest to me to adjust the menu prices to cover whatever might be needed, but as long as it happens before the order OK.

My problem is with people's mindset that they are OWED a tip. You earn a tip by providing good service. Otherwise it isn't a tip, is it? It's a handout.

reply to post by windword


It is a GIVEN when someone asks for a seperate check...be it as a member of a party of people at a function at a restaurant...or as an individual within a small group at a table....that you are expected to TIP....ESPECIALLY when waitresses and waiters are paid on the vast majority by these tips.

If the tip was auto calculated on a seperate slip for the party and not done so for the individual...the individual shoud tip.

If the tip is calculated as an auto percentage on an asked for seperate slip even if this person is in a larger group that will be given one check with a calculated tip...the tip should be paid at least in the calculated amount.

The only tep a person is not obligated to pay by Honor if the service was good...is an amount above any auto calculation of a tip based on percentage.

Point is...if you go, sit and eat with a large party that has usually reserved a dinning room in the eatery...you are obligated to pay any auto calculation of tip.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by windword

But do you pay income taxes on money you never made?

You and I both know that the reason for the mandatory tip tax rate is due to the nearly universal practice of servers under-reporting or even outright not reporting tip income on their income taxes. The industry has only itself to blame.

I know, I was there before and after.

Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by interupt42

You are correct in being a human being. As a human being you also have the right to knowingly screw someone out of a deserved payment. Its a decisions one makes, but don't incorrectly justify it.

It is not my 'expectation' that you pay 15% more, its the industries and the countries expectation that you leave a 15% tip. Leaving 15% or more is the norm, leaving 0% is the minority.

You have the right to not leave it, but you are also very aware that the person on the other end along with the majority of the country also expects that 15% as part of his livelihood. Nobody is forcing you, but rest assure that you are screwing someone else from part of their livelihood when you stiff the waiter and they provided good service.

All I'm saying is don't try to justify it, because whether you like it or not, its the norm and its what is expected by the majority of customers,workers,and Americans.

A CEO or an employee in a company gets a bonus if they meet the criteria , why shouldn't a waiter?

Whoa there, Buckaroo! Don't be putting words in my mouth.

I have never said I don't tip, in fact I usually tip much more but you conveniently ignore that. The only times I have ever left no tip were the very few times where a server was obnoxious, abusive, or totally incompetent. My problem is with MANDATORY tips.

You are correct that a server who meats the criteria should receive a tip, but those criteria are mine, not the server's and not the employer's. If you meet the employer's criteria you get a paycheck. If you meet mine you get a (good) tip. You aren't entitled to either. You have to EARN them both.

I wasn't putting any words in your mouth nor was I talking about you specifically.

However, the criteria is not mine, nor yours its the majority of the countries and the industries. The waiter got your order correct, provided tentative service, and was not rude , automatic minimum 15% tip is expected by all parties.

If you expect them to make you laugh and entertain you then I hope you tip accordingly and over 15%.