What you need (items) & What you need to learn (for a full collapse)

Its my philosophy that although it is nice to have a few modern tools on hand to make things easier, the tried and true methods have been used for as long as they have because they are reliable and because they can be sustained with what is found in the environment.

Anything with o-rings, plastic components and other delicate, proprietary parts may be helpful in the near term but developing a reliance on them is futile of course.

Since the OP has set the location in the woods, I would think that the people that have been self sustained there indefinitely are the ones from which to seek advice. What these people have in common is that they have found that the traditional techniques, in the end, are the most practical.

Originally posted by dainoyfb

Originally posted by heyitsok
reply to post by dainoyfb

 

Again, this thread is not, and never was, about being a seasoned woodsman. It is about things you should have on hand in case of collapse.

Reading comprehension. Learn it. Do it.

The premiss of the OP is based on sustained living in the woods which is stated twice in the very first paragraph.

Back at you.

No, "sustained living in the woods" is never once in the OP mentioned as one of the parameters of this discussion. GhostX mentions having lived in the woods, in the winter, for three months. My woods, by the way, I actually live here.

The OP does specifically mention "collapse" as one of the parameters of this discussion. What exactly was it about the word "collapse" which made you think "oh, sustained living in the woods."

Back at you, and keep it, I'm out.

Originally posted by dainoyfb
Its my philosophy that although it is nice to have a few modern tools on hand to make things easier, the tried and true methods have been used for as long as they have because they are reliable and because they can be sustained with what is found in the environment.

Anything with o-rings, plastic components and other delicate, proprietary parts may be helpful in the near term but developing a reliance on them is futile of course.

Since the OP has set the location in the woods, I would think that the people that have been self sustained there indefinitely are the ones from which to seek advice. What these people have in common is that they have found that the traditional techniques, in the end, are the most practical.

edit on 29-1-2013 by dainoyfb because: I replaced my snark with an actual contribution.

You know, your philosophy is my philosophy as well. This is a topic we could get along on. I think the reason we made sparks between us is because I was focusing on the scenario of being in the wilderness in the immediate aftermath of collapse. That is to say, focusing not on how *best* to do something or how *sustainably* to do something, but simply on the most efficient and practical way to get through those first few weeks.

I could have been clearer that I was speaking from that context, so it is partially my fault. I got frustrated rather than clarifying exactly what I was talking about, and I apologize.

As for the old, natural, sustainable ways, in my opinion there is no loftier goal than to master them and to use them exclusively, or as close as you can get to exclusively.

It is a dream of mine to see the natural world and technology coexisting without one destroying the other. It is a greater dream of mine, though, that our world become a garden again, like it was in the past. Like it was before plastic and O-rings and parts so fine and delicate they could only have been crafted by computer-controlled robots. The greatest thing about being in the wilderness in the winter, is that the snow hides all the beer can litter on the ground. Nature shows the scars of her abandonment, and in even more profound ways. And that, in the end, is a greater threat to all of our survival, than any predicted collapse scenario I have ever heard.

And, so that this post is still on-topic, I will add a few more things to the list:

--As many good books as you have energy to carry. A survival necessity by an definition of survival.
--Peanut butter. For its weight it is loaded with protein and calories.
--A sturdy adze.
--Nails and screws.
--Fishing line and hooks will net you more nutrition for their weight than any other hunting/fishing/trapping device.
--And, my big secret, the one item I will never, ever, ever, *ever* go into the wilderness for any significant length of time without. Are you ready?....... Nail clippers. Seriously. Ever trimmed your toenails with a knife? No fun.

Okay so I can prepare and make sure I have packed up every wilderness survival items on the list. But once I'm out there and the canned food is no longer an option and I'm turned to having to kill for food, someone such as me who has no hunting experience is lacking a very key skill. I can shoot my bow because I took lessons in high school, I know we need to score a big kill because I'm with family or friends. We manage to actually kill a nice deer. At this point I turn to the person next to me and ask, " have you ever done this before? Because I haven't......=P". Could anyone provide us newbies an abridged version of what parts of most animals can I eat? Where the heck do I even start? I'm pretty sure the first step is to hang the animal slice it down the middle and horizontally at the four apendeges and let it all drain. Maybe ill just stick to fishing.

reply to post by Mullpounda


Pretty much, you can eat the same parts as a chickem, I believe - breast, thigh, leg, etc. There's more, but nothing comes to mind at the moment

Also, just as a tip, I have a suggerstion as to the food situation: Hunt when you can, and only use the canned foods right before they expire, or as a last resort, when you can't find food. There may come a time when the hunting is good, and you eat the canned food first before ghunting, and when you start hunting, the prey is scarce, and you don't have enough to eat.

Originally posted by Mullpounda
Okay so I can prepare and make sure I have packed up every wilderness survival items on the list. But once I'm out there and the canned food is no longer an option and I'm turned to having to kill for food, someone such as me who has no hunting experience is lacking a very key skill. I can shoot my bow because I took lessons in high school, I know we need to score a big kill because I'm with family or friends. We manage to actually kill a nice deer. At this point I turn to the person next to me and ask, " have you ever done this before? Because I haven't......=P". Could anyone provide us newbies an abridged version of what parts of most animals can I eat? Where the heck do I even start? I'm pretty sure the first step is to hang the animal slice it down the middle and horizontally at the four apendeges and let it all drain. Maybe ill just stick to fishing.

Rule #1. Read the OP.
A. It's about learning skills as well as having the items. The prepared food will give you time to travel deep into the woods & set traps along the way. Also for emergencies.

Rule #2. You will die unless you have common sense, a core understanding of essential skills, and some starting up items. Therefor, if you learn how to set traps & kill animals then you must also learn how to prepare those animals for eating. Perhaps this should have been stated in the OP, but under Rule #2 it can be said that someone will only survive with common sense.

Rule #3. Everyone, stop bashing the thread. If you can only learn one thing from my list, then I have helped you. If you want to use the argument "if I use your list and that's it, I will die" then you have violated Rule #2 and you're not being realistic.
A. If you follow a list to survive, you will die.
B. if you use a list to help you & do other things to survive, you have a chance.
C. Thank you everyone for your time, additions, & interest.

He's right. No idiot is supposed to go just on the list. A true survival expert doesn't even need a list, or even a whole lot of items, but an expert also knows that some things do come in handy.

BTW, did you know that you can start a fire with just an empty bic lighter, some cotton, and some paper? Take a little cotton off your sock, wrap the paper up, put the cotton in the top (have a wood pile set up for a fire beside you, also, where it can be started real easily) and then use the lighter to make a spark with the cotton thing beside it. The cotton should catch, at which time you should quickly light the fire with.

Here is what you should do BEFORE you start a fire.
Collect the wood and have it all ready, quite close to where you are making the fire; in a pile, organized by size.

Get barks; not the thick stuff. Get the stuff that peels off kind of like paper, from trees. Healthy bark works, but some trees will have extremely dry stuff as well.
Collect twigs off the ground, or if you have to off trees. Again, dead branches are the best.
These small pieces are your starting wood.

Then get a little bigger. So from small twigs, get some twigs that are a bit larger (2 centimeters wide)
Then get ones that are an inch or two in diameter.
Then just get progressively larger ones until you have big logs.
Make your fire using the small stuff, and add wood, using the larger wood as the fire gets bigger.

Do NOT use all of your wood at once. You don't want a huge fire. There's really no point. You can keep warm with a medium sized fire, and cook easily.
When you are cooking, you want to designate a small little natural stove. This stove generally is on the side, and is on the coals. There should be fire around it, but you don't need to cook in the middle of the fire. This will make your food cook better and it won't burn as fast. Furthermore, using coals is easy and because it works great it means you really don't need a large fire.

If you want to bake something, or perhaps cook something like a turkey, you can do that with a fire too.
Note: this is a longer process and is not ideal if you are fleeing.

Just wrap the turkey (or other meat) in tin foil, once you've prepared it to your liking.
You'll want to dig an oven of sorts in the coals, and ground. Put the meat inside that hole you've made. Then surround it once again with coals, and then put the logs back over it. You want to make sure that the coals stay consistently hot, so make sure your fire or coals do not die.

This oven technique works for turkeys, but also small sandwiches. Using a small oven, in the coals, with a tortilla wrap will produce a wrap that has a warm inside (and cheese melts great by the way), but the tortilla will not be burnt.

When you are done with your fire, you may want to consider bringing some with you if you are traveling. You can do this by using a large can (from beans), or anything metal. You'll want to pole holes and slits (not too large) in the sides of the can. Add a little handle to it. This can be done with metal wiring quite easily, but really anything you have could work as long as it doesn't catch fire.

You don't want to be carrying a can with a BLAZING fire in it; just hot coals that will burn for a while. When you are traveling, you can swing this can around to give the coals some heat. Just make sure you don't give it so much air that it eventually burns out. Make sure you carry some of that smaller wood I was talking about to keep the fire going. This is a great way to have warmth, which can be amazing if you need to make a sudden stop, boil water, or cook.

Pretty soon, I will put up my own Survival list up on this board, probably just a long term one. My tips, my items, etc. Perhaps we can help each other in this regard, ghostx.