Cryptids, Demons, Monsters

howdy,

like most of you i have an interest in off-the-wall subjects, and that led once to the purchase of a book called Monsters. its by john micheal greer and subtitled an investigators guide to magical beings..

the book claims to offer a magicians opinion about classical monsters..

its a fun read but im not here to plug it, im here to ask a few questions of the ATS cryptid community.

questions like, Is there crossover between cryptozoology and occultism?

for example, i once asked a UFO researcher that i knew how he felt about European folklore.. he said he knew nothing. I asked him if we couldnt connect the dots between faerie circles and crop circles, between changelings and alien hybrid babies, between abduction time-loss syndrome and the Rip Van Winkle phenomenon...

The researcher told me that as a UFO guy he had to keep his stuff strictly scientific, and couldnt even get NEAR folklore because it would (by association) make him a looney (or MORE of one LOL)...

if you read up on ole Al Crowley you will find some that say that he was doing a magical work at boleskine on Loch Ness and that after he failed, people started to sight the lake monster we all love so much.

the book i mentioned earlier basically blames occultism (Magick) for most of the cryptids... not things like the coelacanth, but things like bigfoot.

greer claims that bigfoot is a shapeshifted shaman, he also claims that the viking berserker phenom involved not a crazed warrior, but a magician sitting at home PROJECTING a crazed warrior.

he claims that energy projection and or shapeshifting is responsible for most of the bigfoot / mothman / mermaid / dragon stuff...

vampires he blames on energy collection being used to feed a piece of the soul empowered to survive the death of the body... (actually his take on vampires is worth the price of the book)

which leads me to demons.

HAVE ANY CRYPTOZOOLOGISTS TRIED TO SUMMON A DEMON?

it sounds like it would be inside the bounds of the quest...

unless the semi-phisycal nature of this whole class of "monsters" moves us out of the scientific and into the looney bin of occultism and folklore.

how much crossover will the cryptid community tolerate? or are there any occultists here working with the classical grimoires who would tell us of their success?

although i dont practice i love to read crazy stuff, and i understand that there are 72 named "things" that are summonable in the goetia..

of course it would take a certain amount of lunacy to just summon demons on a whim so instead of searching the local stores for chalk and a bunch o black candles, i thought id ask you guys...

what do you make of Magical Monsters?

Cryptids, Demons, and Monsters oh my

Cryptids, Demons, and Monsters oh my

sorry I dont know why this made me think of the wizard of oz

You mentioned Crowley. Surely the resemblance between Crowley's "Lam" and the typical grey alien can not be discounted by cryptozoologists and ufologists out of hand?

reply to post by heyitsok


oh yeah theres a resemblance at least... lemme see if i can drop a link to a pic of crowleys lil dude...

www.boudillion.com...



regarding my own OP

the evocation community itself seems split between those who say its all mental theater and those who say dont try this at home...

im still not summoning anything but like i said, im curious.

occult simply means hidden, so in a certain sense, the alien presence here on earth is occult, its certainly not out in the open.

but magick isnt really regarded as a scientific activity by modern college folk...

SO

if the cryptids are still a mystery (unexplained tho experienced)

AND

if we are ONLY using science to look for them (forensics, hunting, tracking, electronic remote sensing)

THEN

maybe we arent investigating as completely as we could.

if "bigfoot" is a shapeshifted shaman who needs to cross a whole lotta ground really fast (for example) then looking for bigfoot dung would be a long and fruitless search, prints or no...

i am also keen to divide this whole class of "possibly occult" monsters from the world of the skunk ape and the giant squid.

PS - on aliens and conspiracies to cover up...

i once read that Werver Von Braun (WVB) was into film production before he got into rocketry... (note i need to research that more but hang on)

the film makers (germany was in really early) can make crazy pictures that look real
the secret societies can summon "things"
the GOV can be manipulated...

follow me on this

some group like the Thule Society or some other occult CLUB gets a guy like WVB in the gang. they also get a few of their people in government. a show is arranged where the club introduces certain members of GOV to "aliens" (actually goetic "things" summoned by the club). the "aliens" tell the GOV that the CLUB is the authorized group of earth contactees and that the GOV should start a space program based on CLUB members to make alien contact easier and to improve our sciences.

GOV gives CLUB a WHOLE LOTTA MONEY.
CLUB does stuff in secret
eventually PROOF comes out
ON TV

thats right, EVERY TIME the CLUB shows us its SUCCESS in SPACE

ITS ON TV

ITS A MOVIE

the part we can see from here with our own eyes is really just the SATURN 5 part.

thats WW2 explosives, a mere fireworks show. if the rocket stopped burning and fell to the pacific from high atmosphere WE WOULDNT EVEN KNOW


whew /rant off

but what do YOU ATSers think?

is there a valid crossover point between CRYPTOZOOLOGY and the OCCULT?

I have to admit that when I study the unkown things in this world, that I usually end up at a dead end that starts with the supernatural. I think there is something to what you are saying, the only problem is we are easily fooled by whatever or whoever is behind this. This creates confusion among investigators of UFOs or bigfoot ect. and knowone seems to be able to agree on the subjects at hand. I believe what ever is behind this is evil, simply because we get just enough evidence to keep us distracted and interested but never enough for proof of actual existance. We just keep chasing our tales, what I would like to know is what are we being distracted from and by who?

reply to post by uwascallywabbit


well I have heard theories that cryptids are not flesh and blood creature but rather paranormal entities/spirits/demons which is why we never find any real evidence. If you read nick redferns book "three men seeking monsters" he claims to visit a witch who tells him that creatures like bigfoot are were summoned here by occult rituals in ancient times

I tried to summon a demon once, but all the stuff on the angelfire page didn't work lol.

reply to post by uwascallywabbit


Yeah, probably something to it. The answer is probably actually answers... note plural.

Unknown animals, dna experiments gone wild, conjured thingies-like tulpas, dimensional drop-ins or cross-overs with and without bodies as we know them, extraterrestrial guys in the traditional sense, operations of the universe we have no idea about yet, identification mistakes and hoaxes.

See, all nicely wrapped up.

digging up an old thread o mine which I felt could use some new eyes...

anyone keen on this?

is there crossover between Magick and cryptozoology?

I'm thinking that there might be a connection.

plus I loaned someone that book and never got it back (grrr)

The Crowley loch ness connection is bogus BS, creature sitings were going on long before Crowley's parents were even a gleam in THEIR parents eyes.

As for the possible connection between Cryptozoic creatures and Paranormal/magic, I like to think they are seperate since most of what comes as energy seems to have only secondary effects such as moving things, cold feelings etc. Where as true cryptids seem to leave trace as in footprints, claw marks, etc.

The above is what I use to classify something as paranormal or cryptiod .

a reply to: uwascallywabbit

Interesting thread OP.

I think a book you might be interested in reading is Wm. Michael Motts. Caverns, Cauldrons, and Concealed Creatures: A Study of Subterranean Mysteries in History, Folklore, and Myth

www.amazon.com...

It covers a lot of folklore and cryptids and then in later chapters UFO phenomenon and puts forth I think an interesting theory that links it all.

The theory in a nutshell is. All around the world in folklore there is talk of another race of beings. The fay folk of europe, the djinn of the middle east, nagas and dakini of asia and india, simular races amongst the native american peoples both of north and south america, daimons of greece. And then it actually examines and looks at the commonalities of these legends which seem to be.

1.They come from somewhere else, often another earth/dimension/world
2.They freely travel to and from those worlds with ease
3.They often are able to pass through physical matter; such as walls, doors, barriers as if they are not there.
4.They seem to have the ability to paralyze or freeze humans.
5.They are able to manipulate or alter time or the perception of time.
6.They are able to hypnotize humans and project illusions and even seem to be able to change their shape and form radically in any way they will and to become invisible
7.They are often preoccupied with human DNA and intermarrying and breeding with human beings

He then moves on to the UFO phenomenon examining much of the accounts of abducties and of course even though there is a technological overlay to the phenomenon there is also many of those 7 commonalities in it.

He then puts forth the idea that all these races and many of the alien encounters are simply different stories of one extra dimensional race that has always been around and can appear to be anything it wants ie wear any mask including one of technology.

Anyway I found the book interesting and you and maybe others might too.

originally posted by: uwascallywabbit
of course it would take a certain amount of lunacy to just summon demons on a whim so instead of searching the local stores for chalk and a bunch o black candles, i thought id ask you guys...

You don't have to summon them when they are walking among us everyday.

All you have to do is get your brain to increase in activity and the cloaked (higher frequency) creatures become visible to the naked eye. A person having a minor epileptic seizure, whilst still relatively in control of their thoughts and actions can see 30 ft high, 10ft wide giants quite easily.

Don't be surprised if you suddenly start conversing with the daemon in Latin like its your second language. They have a tendency of laughing when they see how frustrated the person is at how slow events on this planet are occuring.

Being possessed with a Shaytan class Djinn can increase your chances of commune with the daemon. However, the djinn could be pure evil and force you to walk into a fast moving 18-wheeler truck. Splat......