Matthew 10

Originally posted by PapagiorgioCZ
Funny the word sword even has a word word in it

He don't lie, baby, he don't lie.

Whether you're a believer or not, there comes a time where you have to say "ALL THIS CAN'T BE A COINCIDENCE"
>gen 1< AOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


PS: Can't spell truth without two ts-- hint hint

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Leuan
34)"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

What is your transformation of this parable?

Does it mean death to unbelievers (to you) or is there a deeper meaning? Discuss

edit on 27-1-2013 by Leuan because: (no reason given)

There's nothing to discuss, if you read the passage in correct context, this is about seperating the righteous from the unrighteous. The sword of truth to cleave the wicked from the righteous. This is allegorical, not a literal sword.

Quit digging into the bible looking for stuff to discredit it. Kthxbai.

Wait what? You must have not read my other posts then and reacted blindly. I wouldn't judge you for slipping up

Originally posted by TheOne17

Originally posted by Leuan
34)"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

What is your [s]transformation[/s] interpretation of this parable?

That's not a parable. It's a sentence within a parable. Verses 34 through 37 is one "sub-topic" within quite a few that you'll find in chapter 10. The whole point of chapter 10 being that the love of God and Jesus overshadows everything else, and quite a few different ways of getting that point across are used in that one chapter. This is why I put in verses 33 and 38; To give you a better idea of how chapters can wander aimlessly between sub-topics within the same chapter. 33 being the end of one and 38 being the start of another ( Don't blame Matthew though, blame the editor) I gave this analogy a frame between two other ones that are all within the same parable. Why the translators pieced together chapters in this fashion is beyond me. It makes the meanings harder to grasp in my opinion.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
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34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
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38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

(ESV version BTW)

When taking 34 through 37 in the context that it's meant to be understood, it's basically saying that if you put his love first and foremost, that is what binds families tighter. Making them more tight-knit and having a solid foundation on which to grow on. If you put the love of a family member first and then take the love of Jesus somewhere farther down on your list of priorities, that fact is the "sword" that will divide you. What he's saying is that a family isn't the foundation on which to build your faith in Him, but He should be the foundation on which everything else needs to be built. That's my take on it at least.

The way it's worded though I can completely understand how it can be misinterpreted as saying that Jesus himself will do the dividing. Especially when it's written that “I didn't come here to send peace on earth, but a sword”. That puts the peaceful message that is trying to get across in a somewhat violent light. And in my opinion that's when a message gets lost. When the method of conveying the message contradicts the message itself. They need to stop being so pompous about it all and get straight to the point.

By no stretch of the imagination am I a biblical scholar. I am however well versed in the English language and can decipher just about anything. But the way the Bible is pieced together makes it a very hard read for me. Some of the messages in the NT are good, but the style in which they're presented give me a headache. If you have a good message, just get to the point. No need to beat around the bush.

edit on 28-1-2013 by TheOne17 because: (no reason given)

You are right and I didn't want to post all of the chapter as it would give the chance for more dodging, so I isolated the text. To me, this is the most important part of the bible so thats what I based the thread on.
Because the word is divine, you can take all the verses out (people try to purposefully distor the word) and the parables still stand,. You cannot take the Christ out of the religion though, or the cards fall.
Thank you for your great comments.
To the others, I will try to get back to you

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Leuan

 

34)"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
What is your transformation of this parable?
Does it mean death to unbelievers (to you) or is there a deeper meaning? Discuss

Heres my take on it :

"Earth" = This world and all its materialistic distractions... the way it was when he first came.
"Sword" = Jesus opposition to this materialistic world.

You will notice that Jesus taught people not to be attached to existence on earth... but rather to beware of it and stay focused on the world to come. This was probably the inspiration for this later teaching we see in 1John2:15

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

He did not preach "peace" with the world, i.e he did not teach that one should become comfortable on earth. He did not go around preaching that one should live to enjoy the pleasures of the world (as taught by materialistic church leaders) ....but rather he did the exact opposite. The sword that Jesus said he's bringing is meant for the earth which he saw as wicked.

The division you read of between members of a household represents the conflict in choices made between them.

God knows best.

Very interesting. I can agree with most of your post however saying he did not want to bring peace to the world is dishonest. If that were the case, his purveyor would have never created us in the first place.
With free will comes comeuppance and apparently we didn't learn the lesson.
Are you a shiite?

Originally posted by Leuan
34)"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

What is your transformation of this parable?

Does it mean death to unbelievers (to you) or is there a deeper meaning? Discuss

edit on 27-1-2013 by Leuan because: (no reason given)

It means He's not going to accept excuses, and simply write off un-repented sin and evil. This says that there is no universal "everyone will be happy" plan in place, and that there will be real consequences for those that ignore the laws of God. Yes, it pretty much means an eternal death (separation from God) for unbelievers. If needed, I can do a little research for verses. Just tired right now, so posting what believe for the time being.

reply to post by Leuan

Very interesting. I can agree with most of your post however saying he did not want to bring peace to the world is dishonest. If

I think you misunderstood me.

The "earth" or "world" Jesus was speaking about... was the materialistic world he arrived into 2000 years ago. He had no love for this materialistic earth / world... and taught against being attached to it because it causes one to lose focus on God.

Remember, he encouraged his followers to focus on God and the hereafter... and not to be too attached to wealth this world has to offer.

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

"Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."

"For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God."


Indeed what the world exalts is an abomination to God.

Jesus never taught to make peace with a world like this. Because he identified it as a stumbling block to salvation.
Yes, without a doubt, he will bring peace to the earth someday. But not a secular, "everything goes" kind of peace, but a righteous kind of peace that God would want.

reply to post by Divine Strake


Thank you sir, much appreciated..
I do enjoy my creative thinking from time to time.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Well, what do you know? Completely agree with you on this one. This "everything good for everyone" stuff some people want to believe isn't what we are told will happen at all.

To me the sword is truth.
Like a sword the truth cuts through things, with varying results.
Some will understand and live by the truth,
others know the truth and choose not to live it,
and sadly there are those who see no truth in the Father.

He knew that this way of thinking would cause conflict,

Matthew 10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And out of the conflict the truth is revealed.
It is up to the individual to seek the truth,
the father laid the foundation.

PLPL

Hadn't God made things to be by words? A piece of metal wouldn't have conquered the evil and expel any spirit from heaven. So word is obviously stronger than a sword because this world can be seen as an illusion compared to the real and first spiritual world. The Said is executing self-righteous and un-righteous and saving at the same time. Chopping off someone's ear was ignorance. Dying on the cross on the other hand was a checkmate to those using our sins to bring us death by the power of the law. Indeed God is the Lord and His words are power and law.
However let us not be fooled by peace and oneness, all-in-one false religions when their put their words and moral above God's. Their love is empty, smile is stinking and their eyes definitely won't see any peace. When God says there will be war there will be war and it will be good. Those who understand will not fight and die in it.
I thing we are allowed to defend ourselves and kill flesh to one's heart content but what if you know inside that you will win by love or even letting them kill you? If you can see behind the curtain you may see no sense in fight against man. Jesus didn't kill anyone by a sword yet there's somewhere in the Scriptures He will be wading ankle deep in blood of His enemies. The Shepherd has no problem with killing few sheeps not to mention wolves.

I did not take the time to read every post so I apologize if I repeat something.

I have spent much time analyzing what Christ meant when he said this. He also said "ones enemies will be in ones own household". I think what is meant is that if we have, say, a brother who is a blatant sinner we are supposed to call him out on that sin and "expel him from our midst" if he does not repent. In today's age if someone is a drug addict for example, family members of that person seem to allow it and by allowing it it is the same as a stamp of approval. This type of "peace" is wrong. Truth is the "sword" that should be decisive and absolute. I think basically Christ was trying to say "tough love" is the only true love, less is a lie.

Originally posted by Leuan

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by CitizenJack
reply to post by Leuan

 

Im not well versed in scripture but I'm assuming this is a qoute from a bibilcal figure??

If so my interpretation would be that the world is so screwed up and corrupt by the bad guys that every now and then the good guys need to have thier own bad guy ... Like a fighting fire with fire analogy.

So to me it reads, "to all you peaceful good people, fear not remain peaceful and good. For I will do the dirty work that is required, stain not your hands instead let mine be stained for you."

edit on 27-1-2013 by CitizenJack because: (no reason given)

Interestingly enough, that is close to how theologians have received that passage. Yes it is from a biblical figure and is attributed to Jesus. He is referring to Micah from the Old Testament but the OP only referred to a small portion of the whole of the message.

Please understand, I am not saying I agree with this or disagree with it, but if you are going to use a biblical verse, at least show it all in context; my opinion of course.

Contextually, would you agree that the truth is the sword?

I don't know why so many have strayed so far from the true meaning of this verse.
Most truth is relative as is force but IMO the light and truth of God is Absolute! I don't however believe that force as a sword or any other kind of aggression is truth! This is only action of a definitive nature as a response to an ever increasing growth of greed, oppression and other kinds of evil throughout the world! One which interpets scripture to suit its own needs and has no respect for the consequences of its actions! These forces only exists to suit itself and nothing else matters! So maybe what the passage is insinuating, is there can be no peace before evil is purged! Therefore when the Christ comes he does not come to bring a message of peace but comes with a sword to eliminate evil! As when he comes rejoice last but take cover first! In revelations 19:15 it says "
A sharp sword comes out of his mouth to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod and tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. "

As I see it, everyone is missing the message. To bring a sword doesn't mean to use that for offensive purposes. You can stand your ground and use it for defense. To love thy brother, you must do so with out fear, and must be unconditional love. To understand forgiveness, one must truly understand right from wrong and make a conscientious effort to only do right. Upon this knowledge, you can learn that one does not purposely do wrong. When a wrong doer is forgiven, and understands this, then one truly knows right from wrong. We are all wrong doers, but it is up to one to decide if they are continue wrong doers, or wrong doers or the past.

Originally posted by Leuan
34)"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

What is your transformation of this parable?

Does it mean death to unbelievers (to you) or is there a deeper meaning? Discuss

That verse does not mean death to unbelievers. The sword, is the truth. It's God's word.
Ultimately there are two types of people in this world, those who love the truth, and those who don't.

The truth of the matter is:
Mark 16:16“ Whoever believes and is baptized has life, and whoever does not believe is condemned.”

Originally posted by Minori
To me the sword is truth.
Like a sword the truth cuts through things, with varying results.
Some will understand and live by the truth,
others know the truth and choose not to live it,
and sadly there are those who see no truth in the Father.

He knew that this way of thinking would cause conflict,

Matthew 10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And out of the conflict the truth is revealed.
It is up to the individual to seek the truth,
the father laid the foundation.

PLPL

As you can see within this thread, the foundations' dimensions, depend on where you're standing. I can say with certainty that EVERYONE meets the true Father at some point, here or at the end of their cycle.
To look around and see the beauty of this world, combined with the brutality spawned by ignorance and greed, should turn your insides.

Originally posted by ccross
I did not take the time to read every post so I apologize if I repeat something.

I have spent much time analyzing what Christ meant when he said this. He also said "ones enemies will be in ones own household". I think what is meant is that if we have, say, a brother who is a blatant sinner we are supposed to call him out on that sin and "expel him from our midst" if he does not repent. In today's age if someone is a drug addict for example, family members of that person seem to allow it and by allowing it it is the same as a stamp of approval. This type of "peace" is wrong. Truth is the "sword" that should be decisive and absolute. I think basically Christ was trying to say "tough love" is the only true love, less is a lie.

I think the idea is sound but only in context. We are not to judge or to run around telling people they will burn in hell...............
When it comes to to a close family member or friend, you sit them down and have the "talk".
Basically introduce them and welcome them into man or womanhood.
There comes a tiem

Originally posted by HelpIsComing
As I see it, everyone is missing the message. To bring a sword doesn't mean to use that for offensive purposes. You can stand your ground and use it for defense. To love thy brother, you must do so with out fear, and must be unconditional love. To understand forgiveness, one must truly understand right from wrong and make a conscientious effort to only do right. Upon this knowledge, you can learn that one does not purposely do wrong. When a wrong doer is forgiven, and understands this, then one truly knows right from wrong. We are all wrong doers, but it is up to one to decide if they are continue wrong doers, or wrong doers or the past.

Well we agree then, the sword was a metaphor for the truth and the troothless will fall on the sword.
I think the main issue here is that alot of young people (myself included) are separated at birth from the simple message of the word of god. It's a journey, not a littany of recitals for grades made by men. The world is complicated and I think most kids are being taught how to be other people, not themselves.
I wish I could have learned the intentions of Father when I was younger, but that is how life is. The cards are dealt, and you play on the fly or lose.

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by Leuan
34)"Think not that I come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

What is your transformation of this parable?

Does it mean death to unbelievers (to you) or is there a deeper meaning? Discuss

That verse does not mean death to unbelievers. The sword, is the truth. It's God's word.
Ultimately there are two types of people in this world, those who love the truth, and those who don't.

The truth of the matter is:
Mark 16:16“ Whoever believes and is baptized has life, and whoever does not believe is condemned.”

edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: To add.

Indeed, there are destroyers and builders, but how long will it take for religion to project this reality into the minds of all people?
I know many people that aren't religious at all, but they live an almost sin free life in comparison to the rest/.
I believe there is salvation for them, in the grand scheme of things. We really hjave no clue what awaits us in the afterlife.

At this point we can't even figure out what a spirit(scientifically) is. Infants

reply to post by Leuan


Indeed it does turn my insides.
Now imagine how the Father feels.
We are in constant conflict, with ourselves and eachother.
Pulled in two directions, finding reasons and justifications for our own selfish and seedy actions,
taking for granted the very existence of the one who created all of this.
And in the midst of the repulsive and beastly people in the world there still shines the light of the Father.
He puts faith in those who have faith in him.
Think about how many times we as a collective whole have let him down.
It makes me sad, for him and for us.

PLPL