Arizona bill AZ HB2467 requires graduating high school students to take an oath

Could this be a sign that there will be a war soon. So, they are forcing people to swear an oath. Since you swore an oath, when you are drafted you can;t say no. If you do, you can't say it's unconstitutional because you basically swore an oath.

Much like blindly agreeing to the terms of service on a website or when you download software.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Yet more proof that the cheese continues to to slide off the mental cracker of the Republican Party. Dear god, what a bunch of lunatics.

Originally posted by Kuroodo
Could this be a sign that there will be a war soon. So, they are forcing people to swear an oath. Since you swore an oath, when you are drafted you can;t say no. If you do, you can't say it's unconstitutional because you basically swore an oath.

Much like blindly agreeing to the terms of service on a website or when you download software.

I think that it's more of a sign that the Arizona GOP is recruiting from the nutcase part of its base.

Originally posted by CX
The only problem i have with this is....

This part....

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

.....kind of gets confusing when it comes to this part...

and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States

What do you do? Obey the President, or the constitution?

Seems to be it's one or the other at the moment.

Another thing, what happens when the leaders of a country become the "enemy", or at least someone you have to defend yourself against?

I'd like to see someone graduate, then get refused their diploma.....then sue the ass off of the school or whoever is behind this.

CX.

That's from the oath the military takes, not the same one that is proposed for students. That one reads as follows:

I, _________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; So help me God.

As for defending the nation, well, when you have illegals in the public schools, and marching in the streets proclaiming that parts of America should belong to Mexico, then I can see why someone wants this oath. Our tax dollars should not be paying to educate kids that are taught to revolt against the nation. The second question, I will address below, as it applies to both.

Originally posted by 200Plus
reply to post by CX

 

I asked my commander that once. "what if the President's orders are against the Constitution"?

His reply was "the President's orders are never agaisnt the Constitution".

Scarey day and one of the major reasons I decided to retire.

Can understand that, but that commander was very mistaken! If ANY order is against the Constitution, thus unlawful, a service member is NOT required to follow it. Now, that can get complicated, but it's a fact. By the same reasoning that Nazi soldiers were not excused by claiming that they were "only following orders", an American service member would also not be excused, if they followed an unlawful order. It doesn't matter who gives such orders, either. Of course, proving that, if one did decide to defy an unlawful presidential order, could be complicated, and would most likely ruin a career (at best), but it would still be the right thing to do. Can understand retirement, though. Mine is working on that process now, because of all the recent (past 4 years) changes in the military. Having a commander claim such a thing, and be so clueless as to how things should be, is pretty scary, indeed!

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Do this oath come with hand to hand combat training or what?

* What is required to receive a diploma has nothing to do with an Oath.

They can' deny you that.

I'm starting to think Arizona is just a really dumb state. They just can't be that smart there.

They prove it with their words and actions time and time again.

It's like trash city.

Exactly what is an oath? A promise? Your word? Did the Oath of office Obama took, stop him from spending our money like a drunken sailor? NO. An oath is only applicable to an honest man. Honest men don't need an oath.

My problem with the high school oath is the " Foreign " in it. Most of our enemies today are allready inside the gate. Domestic.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Although I certainly appreciate the sentiment behind this bill, it won't stand and if it passes it will be struck down by the Arizona Supreme Court. You can not make someone say "so help me God". Even if this did pass does it really matter?? Our politicians and law enforcement take this oath and it doesn't seem to matter, so why would it make a difference if a private citizen did??

Here's the difference: if a politician, a soldier, a government employee, or you or I take this oath, we have a reason for that, and we take it BEFORE we render service We take it knowing what we are doing, and knowing that if we don't, we don't participate in that activity. We take it BEFORE participating, with full knowledge, and without coercion.

These students, however, are to be required to take it AFTER participating in the activity (education), AFTER having already done so for 12 years, and with the coercion present of not being allowed to graduate and put that education to work ig they don't.

HELL of a difference, if you ask me.

Natural born or not, if you are an American, it is your duty to defend the constitution.

Jus' Sayin'



spez

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Just more useless memorization in order to graduate high school.

Well beyond the fact that the oath and the 'requirement' are clearly oxymorons, I think its a great idea, provided it is as stated in the oath 'given freely'. The US lacks patriotism in a time when it is clearly needed. The enemy is at the gate.... There are numerous nations wishing for nothing more than to see the United States fail and disintegrate. It's also my feeling that 'God' is a valid part of that oath. I really could not care less on the take of atheists with this. And make no apology either. Arizona is on the front lines of salvaging our Constitutional rights as citizens.

reply to post by WhiteAlice

Good job.Next!

reply to post by windword

I am a retired postal worker. For what it's worth I took no oath. None of my friends, mostly current and ex-postal workers, claim to remember taking any oath...
Maybe they do things differently in Jersey? Ya think?

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I think having a US Constitution and State Constitution class every year from 6th grade to 12th would do more good then a coerced oath. What is the point on taking an oath to honor something when you don't even know what that is. Heck it would be more practical to require students to memorize and cite from memory the US constitution in order to graduate then this nonsense.

Don't put too much into this. Arizona, like most states, has its share of whack-jobs in the state legislature. That some whack-job proposes a bill is a long way from that bill becoming law. This bill won't. Never would. We're not *that* crazy.

-A participant in AZ politics.

Originally posted by Puck 22
reply to post by windword

 

I am a retired postal worker. For what it's worth I took no oath. None of my friends, mostly current and ex-postal workers, claim to remember taking any oath...
Maybe they do things differently in Jersey? Ya think?

Well, you got me really thinking now, "Was I lied to?"

So I had to go and look it up.

Under federal law, Postal Service employees must subscribe to the following oath or affirmation:

“I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.”
blog.lawinfo.com...

Maybe they do do things differently in Jersey!

reply to post by windword


That's what I recall, too. The Oath of Enlistment for federal employees and military has a good intent as it at least is a verbal agreement to not get up to any anti-government shenanigans while working for the federal government. Here's the corresponding code of the oath for those who are about to enter into civil service:

www.law.cornell.edu...

Originally posted by Detergent
Don't put too much into this. Arizona, like most states, has its share of whack-jobs in the state legislature. That some whack-job proposes a bill is a long way from that bill becoming law. This bill won't. Never would. We're not *that* crazy.

-A participant in AZ politics.

Very good to hear! I know that there has been some rather interesting legislation coming out of Arizona for some time now. Is it one specific legislator or a group?