Unforgiving chistians really need to go back to basics.

Hi guys
I just read the be-smirchered the name of Jesus thread, I can understand the guy getting upset but we all do at some time on ATS.

My point is.. Why is it the "more christian" someone is, the less forgiving they seem to be ?

Surely the first truth or at least one of the first is to forgive, I'm pretty sure Jesus would have read the thread and come back with a snappy reply, not go into a rant.

So please if you're a christian learn to forgive, or you may be in for shock.

Man I hate organised religion

reply to post by cody599

My point is.. Why is it the "more christian" someone is, the less forgiving they seem to be ?

Well, that's a nice stereotype, though I've never seen it personally.

Mostly because "being Christian" is to be forgiving, so saying that someone is "more Christian" but "less forgiving" is a bit of an oxymoron.

reply to post by adjensen


It's just my personal experience.
Maybe I should have said the more zealous a christian is the less forgiving they seem to be.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by adjensen

 

It's just my personal experience.
Maybe I should have said the more zealous a christian is the less forgiving they seem to be.

Or maybe you're confusing "forgiving" with something else, like "tolerant." Unless you're done something to personally injure them, they have no reason to forgive you for anything.

reply to post by adjensen


Maybe.
Why would a devout christian not forgive a thread and leave a site ?
Surely posting a forgivness for you blasphemy would have been better ?

reply to post by cody599


I don't know, I'd have to see the post to even hazard a guess. But it sounds like you are confusing terms:

If you insult me, I'd have an opportunity to forgive you. A Christian is to do that, whether you apologize or not, and that's cut and dry (and what I responded to in my first reply to you.)

If I insult you, I'd have an opportunity to apologize and ask for forgiveness. That one's a little trickier, because what you see as an insult, I might see as something else. However, if you make it clear that you've been hurt by my actions, the "love your neighbour as yourself" thing comes into play, though, again, some Christians may see that "insult" as being "teaching and/or correction that's for your own good."

If what you're citing is the second instance, then your OP is not a valid complaint, because you're not talking about Christians being forgiving, but something else.

reply to post by cody599

I was all set to agree with you, then I paused, as is my wont. Let me come at this from two angles.

1.) If you're not going to get furious over insults to your God, what are you going to get furious about? Insults to your country? Children? Wife? Sports team? Are you allowed to get furious when someone insults your race? Your sexual preference?

2.) There's been a lot of talk about forgiveness, and sweet and mild Jesus, and how we should do the "Christian" thing. Why not follow Jesus' example? People were doing unholy thimgs in the courtyard of the temple. Jesus saw it as an insult to God, who was present there. Jesus beat the %^(#@ out of those people. He could, and did, forgive insults to Himself, but son, you go messin' around with God and you better be prepared for a real #$%^ whoopin' (Source: My Unabridged Version). So for us, too. Insult me, Ok, I don't like it much, but I'm expecting it. Insult God, and if I'm any kind of a man, I'll have (at least) words to say.

I have no problem with intelligent debate far from it.
I got upset when people insulted my dad, had fights as kid over it, Once took on 4 boys at once and was so angry i beat the crap out of them.
I've seen my mum on a pilgrimage to Loures seething behind the bus about another pilgrim saying Jesus loves me Jesus loves me and he loves said reicipient.
Thankyou Jesus
That's forgiving, ranting on a thread and losing the plot rather than proving said troll wrong is not.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by adjensen

 

It's just my personal experience.
Maybe I should have said the more zealous a christian is the less forgiving they seem to be.

Or maybe you're confusing "forgiving" with something else, like "tolerant." Unless you're done something to personally injure them, they have no reason to forgive you for anything.

Or confusing reconciliation with forgiveness. I see that people often confuse those two terms.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by adjensen

 

Maybe.
Why would a devout christian not forgive a thread and leave a site ?
Surely posting a forgivness for you blasphemy would have been better ?

What on Earth do you mean forgive a thread and leave the site?

reply to post by cody599

Originally posted by coddy599
Hi guys
I just read the be-smirchered the name of Jesus thread, I can understand the guy getting upset but we all do at some time on ATS.

First of all, I should just state that I don’t classify myself as a Christian, but I do believe in Jesus.

Can you be a bit more specific?; I’ve done a search, but I can’t find the “be-smirchered the name of Jesus” thread, that you’re talking about. I really have no point of reference regarding your OP, to be able to make a more accurate response to it.

Originally posted by coddy599
My point is.. Why is it the "more christian" someone is, the less forgiving they seem to be ?

My only advice is that you can’t judge Jesus/Christianity, on the actions of a view bad apples.

If a Person believes in Jesus, and calls themselves a Christian, then they should have a forgiving nature. But what you have to remember, is that Christians are not God, or Jesus, and are capable of making mistakes, just like anyone else.

Like Gandhi said, “I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians” He was making a link between the God people said they believed in, in comparison to their actual actions etc…

Originally posted by coddy599
Surely the first truth or at least one of the first is to forgive, I'm pretty sure Jesus would have read the thread and come back with a snappy reply, not go into a rant.

If someone claims to be a believer, then they should at least follow the words Jesus speaks i.e. “For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you”

Originally posted by coddy599
Man I hate organised religion

I can see the problems in organized religion too


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


JC.
you started it

Originally posted by cody599
Hi guys
I just read the be-smirchered the name of Jesus thread, I can understand the guy getting upset but we all do at some time on ATS.

My point is.. Why is it the "more christian" someone is, the less forgiving they seem to be ?

Surely the first truth or at least one of the first is to forgive, I'm pretty sure Jesus would have read the thread and come back with a snappy reply, not go into a rant.

So please if you're a christian learn to forgive, or you may be in for shock.

Man I hate organised religion

Hey Cody!! Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But, is it really FAIR to say and generalize that the "more christian" someone is, the less forgiving they 'seem' to be?" I really don't think that is trure. Now, that is not to say that there are not some hypocrites out there, this I know to be true.

But to try and depict a whole category of people of having an unfavorable trait, is probably not fair.

And yes, I forgive you for 'hating' anything! Really not a good emotion or feeling to have. I'd say you need to work on that a bit! It's one thing to dislike or disagree, but when you throw in 'hate', not very appealing.

Edit: I would also ask you do a little more research on the general concept of Religion. I am not proposing the adoption of such, however, the more you understand the basic rudiments of the concept, you may not wish to just totally trash 'Religion' as a whole. But, perhaps you'll hate this idea too!!

Peace!! ID

reply to post by cody599

Originally posted by coddy599
JC.
you started it

Did I…?….


Where is this thread your referring to in your OP?


- JC

I WAS WRONG. My earlier comments were impetuous and intemperate, in other words, my mouth got far ahead of my brain.

In referring to Jesus' cleansing of the temple, I forgot that the people he beat on were fellow Jews who had some task to do within the temple. Employees, as it were.

I should have said there might be a difference in our reaction, depending on whether they're brother Christians. One expects insults to God from a non-believer, but not from a fellow Christian. We are in a position to support our brother when he goes wrong. There are more things we can do to help him. One can certainly expand on this theme, but I think you get the idea.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by adjensen

 

It's just my personal experience.
Maybe I should have said the more zealous a christian is the less forgiving they seem to be.

There is a difference between knowing truth and disagreeing with ignorance, just like their is a difference between judgment and shining a light of truth. Light is not seen, but can only reveal what it hits. Would you agree? Suppose you are coming to a street corner (T in the road) to a stop sign and an oncoming car from the right side cuts your corner, nearly missing your motorcycle. Do you disagree with their skills as a driver? Yes. Do their actions affect you? Yes. Do you let them know why they should be more careful with your well being? Are you judging them or simply clinging to truth? Or, should you smile and simply live and let live with joy in your heart?

Let's say you stop them for a moment and say, "You should really be more careful as you enter another street. Your actions have the potential to kill someone." What if they then proceeded to beat you down with a good tongue lashing for being judgmental? Who is the one judging? Never the one that holds you up to the light of truth. Always the one holding you down with ignorance. In the end, truth rises and denser ignorance sinks. This is not judgement. It's the natural order of things. Truth rises because it is lighter. Ignorance is burdened by the weight of pride. There is a difference, yet for every truth you think you hold, a higher one exists.

Here is the problem that any young person must eventually face in their lives. Respect is a two way street. It's easy to say someone is judging you incorrectly. It is yet another thing to know the difference between judgment and truth. We can't see a fault in another without first seeing it in ourselves. Often, the thing judging us is not the object delivering the message, but the subject they hold highly. Don't mistake the two.

Light shines all around us. It can't be seen, but merely reveals what it hits. If you could see light, then you would see nothing but light between you and every object you know to be there. Not liking what you see in the object in no way shows the truth of the reflection given off.

True judgment only comes by how we reflect the light. We need to judge ourselves first. That can only come by the light of others. What's the moral? Judge not lest you be judged. Truth is the only judge. Be sure you are not the one judging the higher truth.

Christian or not, this is simply common sense. If you are found ignorant, then truth judges you. This has nothing to do with the person holding it up. Conversely, the one holding up ignorance will sink on his own. If I happen to be the one holding the truth up, I have nothing to do with the light it shines and the things it reveals. If I am incorrect, then I judge myself. What's the defining factor?

Truth.

What defines truth? Giving. What defines untruth. Taking.

The true moral: Is the one judging you holding you up or dragging you down? This is the only thing you need to ask.